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Geert Claes

Amber alternative browser

Administrator

I would like to suggest an alternative browser which would be better suited for touch devices. Here is a mockup (see image) of what I have in mind; a top pane which acts as a vertical breadcrumb/hierarchy and the botton pane with the current packages/objects. Probably using Twitter Bootstrap or something but I am not sure where to start.

Herby Vojčík

Re: Amber alternative browser

This is suited for narrow devices in mind. Those are phones, mainly; tables are fine to use in landscape mode.

Who will actually use amber browser on a phone?

Herby

Geert Claes wrote:

> I would like to suggest an alternative browser which would be better suited
> for touch devices. Here is a mockup (see image) of what I have in mind; a
> top pane which acts as a vertical breadcrumb/hierarchy and the botton pane
> with the current packages/objects. Probably using Twitter Bootstrap or
> something but I am not sure where to start.
>
> <http://forum.world.st/file/n4701813/AmberPackageBrowser.png>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Amber-alternative-browser-tp4701813.html
> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

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Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

The mockup was only the part replacing the current Packages and Classes panes.
I have some more ideas but wanted to start with an alternative way to browse through packages and classes.

A quick bootstrap 3 mockup: http://bootply.com/71190

sebastianconcept

Re: Amber alternative browser

In reply to this post by Herby Vojčík

It's good to have a good foundation and is great to have alternatives to software navigation.

I'm still unsatisfied with the productivity speed of developing with Amber.

but yeah, not that is bad to have it also in a phone but I agree that phones aren't the right tool to program.

What I really do not like, and this comment is about IDE design, is the idea of not seeing hierarchy of classes.

Why?

Because when the developer has the hierarchy in front of his eyes at the right moment it creates the right abstraction insights.

Wich means that he or she will not find easier to have those same insights if the hierarchy isn't there resulting in (a) loosing chances to help people do elegant code and/or (b) the enemy or the lucrative programmer: re-work

So?

Expose the damn hierarchy!

Even if it's big?

Yeah!

Your city is big and google maps solved that problem right?

That translates into the open question:

What IDE will help you zoom in and out the abstractions of the neighbourhoods of your software?

sebastian

On Aug 1, 2013, at 9:32 AM, Herby Vojčík <[hidden email]> wrote:

This is suited for narrow devices in mind. Those are phones, mainly; tables are fine to use in landscape mode.

Who will actually use amber browser on a phone?

Herby

Geert Claes wrote:
I would like to suggest an alternative browser which would be better suited
for touch devices. Here is a mockup (see image) of what I have in mind; a
top pane which acts as a vertical breadcrumb/hierarchy and the botton pane
with the current packages/objects. Probably using Twitter Bootstrap or
something but I am not sure where to start.

<http://forum.world.st/file/n4701813/AmberPackageBrowser.png>

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Herby Vojčík

Re: Amber alternative browser

In reply to this post by Geert Claes

Ah, I see.

Geert Claes wrote:

> The mockup was only the part replacing the current Packages and Classes
> panes.
> I have some more ideas but wanted to start with an alternative way to browse
> through packages and classes.
>
> A quick bootstrap 3 mockup: http://bootply.com/71190
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Amber-alternative-browser-tp4701813p4701827.html
> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

askoh

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by Geert Claes

Geert:

No need to list the hierarchy in each column.
Instead
Highlight selection (Helios) in first column and list (Helios) on top of second column.
Highlight selection (Commands) in second column and list (Commands) on top of third column.
Looking across the top lines will show the hierarchy.

I like this format very much - can be used for inspectors too.

Thanks,
Aik-Siong Koh

Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

Not sure I understand what you mean, the mockup only has 1 column (just 4 different examples of the same column).

eg. http://bootply.com/71190

How do I create something like that with Amber?

ps. Check if you are a member of this mailinglist because your post is only on Nabble but still pending for the mailinglist.

Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by Geert Claes

Bootply prototype: http://bootply.com/render/71190
Click on Helios will show: http://bootply.com/render/71377
Click on Commands will show: http://bootply.com/render/71378
Click on Core will show: http://bootply.com/render/71385

askoh

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by Geert Claes

Geert:

I was thinking of a multicolumn browser that gives a very good view of the class hierarchy. The MAC Finder is a multicolumn browser for file directories and files. That idea can be used for class browsers and inspectors.

All the best,
Aik-Siong Koh

Manfred Kröhnert

Re: Amber alternative browser

In reply to this post by Geert Claes

Hi Geert,

this is a nice idea and some time ago I was thinking about something similar to this ;-)

Also thanks for creating the mockup.

We'll see what Nico thinks about it once he is back.

Best,

Manfred

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bootply prototype: http://bootply.com/render/71190
Click on Helios will show: http://bootply.com/render/71377
Click on Commands will show: http://bootply.com/render/71378
Click on Core will show: http://bootply.com/render/71385

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Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by askoh

I am not a fan of multicolumn UI's and feel that the classic 4 column Smalltalk browser needs a refresh. I agree that hierarchy needs to be visualized but not in a treeview-type way. I would prefer a breadcrumb type view to show the hierarchy, something like this: http://bootply.com/render/71935

Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by Manfred Kröhnert

Yep, let him enjoy his holiday :) I would give it a go myself but I really have no idea where to start.

Darius Clarke

Re: Amber alternative browser

What do you think of Doug Way's "Whisker Browser" as an example of the Stacking Browser idea.

http://map.squeak.org/package/591f3b80-11a5-4336-8248-3a3312a192ec

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Yep, let him enjoy his holiday :) I would give it a go myself but I really
have no idea where to start.

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Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

Nope, there is waaaaay too much happening in the "Whisker Browser"; too many panes, too many colors, too many treeviews which makes it very difficult too see the structure and logic behind it all. I am looking for something neat, clean, logical and intuitive.

basilmir

Re: Amber alternative browser

In reply to this post by Geert Claes

I really like the BabyIDE Browser, Trygve Reenskaug has over in DCI.

One can select how deep the hierarchy is visible and methods are marked accordingly.

Image and changes here BabyIDE.ZIP

Squeak3.10.2-7179-basic.zip

Pe 05.08.2013, la 11:24, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> a scris:

I am not a fan of multicolumn UI's and feel that the classic 4 column
Smalltalk browser needs a refresh. I agree that hierarchy needs to be
visualized but not in a treeview-type way. I would prefer a breadcrumb type
view to show the hierarchy, something like this:
http://bootply.com/render/71935

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View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Amber-alternative-browser-tp4701813p4702115.html
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Nicolas Petton

Re: Amber alternative browser

In reply to this post by Manfred Kröhnert

I like the idea, but I don't know if that could be a replacement for the classical smalltalk browser. It may be worth prototyping such a browser in Helios to see how it feels :)

Nico

On Aug 3, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Manfred Kröhnert <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Geert,

this is a nice idea and some time ago I was thinking about something similar to this ;-)
Also thanks for creating the mockup.

We'll see what Nico thinks about it once he is back.

Best,
Manfred

On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Geert Claes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Bootply prototype: http://bootply.com/render/71190
Click on Helios will show: http://bootply.com/render/71377
Click on Commands will show: http://bootply.com/render/71378
Click on Core will show: http://bootply.com/render/71385

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Amber-alternative-browser-tp4701813p4701919.html

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Nicolas Petton
http://www.nicolas-petton.fr

Herby Vojčík

Re: Amber alternative browser

I for one like the multipanel thing, I uses it even in Eclipse in those past times I did Java in work; I switched "Java Browsing" perspective that mimicked ST four-pane browser.

But I could see this kind of 'minimal and clean' approach to work as well - with two thinds. First, as sebastian said, the hierarchy should be shown in the class list - but that should not be hard, the button will be just indented a bit and superclasses will be shown as well (as disabled buttons, for example).

The second thing I see as crucial is Ctrl+click (Ctrl held down shows selectora/class names/variables as clickable links, clicking goes to the definition/references) and Back/Forward buttons that navigate the history (or always opening new Tab).

With this hypertexting the navigation, the four panes are less needed and one tree should be enough.

Herby

Nicolas Petton wrote:
> I like the idea, but I don't know if that could be a replacement for
> the classical smalltalk browser. It may be wor
th prototyping such a

> browser in Helios to see how it feels :)
>
> Nico
> On Aug 3, 2013, at 10:57 AM, Manfred Kröhnert
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>> Hi Geert,
>>
>> this is a nice idea and some time ago I was thinking about something
>> similar to this ;-)
>> Also thanks for creating the mockup.
>>
>> We'll see what Nico thinks about it once he is back.
>>
>> Best,
>> Manfred
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Geert Claes
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>> Bootply prototype: http://bootply.com/render/71190
>> Click on Helios will show: http://bootply.com/render/71377
>> Click on Commands will show: http://bootply.com/render/71378
>> Click on Core will show: http://bootply.com/render/71385
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://forum.world.st/Amber-alternative-browser-tp4701813p4701919.html
>> Sent f

rom the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com

>> <http://Nabble.com>.
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>> Google Groups "amber-lang" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to [hidden email]
>> <mailto:amber-lang%[hidden email]>.
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
> --
> Nicolas Petton
> http://www.nicolas-petton.fr
>
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Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by basilmir

Do you have a screenshot so we can have a quick look?

Herby Vojčík

Re: Amber alternative browser

No. I hope I wasn't misunderstood - I was telling that you aproach as presented on bootplys could work, with those two changes - showing a hierarchy and having Ctrl+click functionality (as in Eclipse or WebStorm).

So it is basically what you have there.

Geert Claes wrote:
> Do you have a screenshot so we can have a quick look?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Amber-alternative-browser-tp4701813p4702264.html
> Sent from the Amber Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

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Geert Claes

Re: Amber alternative browser

Administrator

In reply to this post by Nicolas Petton

@Nico: back from holidays already?

I know the idea I put forward will not suit everyone but as Sebastian said, alternatives can only be a good thing no? And yes, I agree that it doesn't make any sense to do development on a phone, the aim should be to come up with the right balance of an IDE that's intuitive, appealing and productive.

@Sebastian and @Herby regarding the class hierachy. Again I concur that there is a need to show the class hierarchy, just not convinced that it needs to be done by indenting the content of a particular package because it only shows part of the hierarchy. something like this perhaps: http://bootply.com/render/71935

I do like the idea of having different icons for different types as Helios is doing with Widgets, Collections, TestCase etc

Anyhow, they are all just ideas. I tried to get an understanding on how Helios shows all the packages and classes but I have to admit I am a bit lost :) If someone could help me get started I wouldn't mind playing around with a few scenarios but I have for example no idea how to get all the packages and parse them at the "-" and display them as in the Bootply (note: the Importer-Exporter package should probably be renamed without the "-")