An 3.9 image for developers
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Re: An 3.9 image for developers
 
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Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse-2
stephane ducasse a écrit :
> > On 14 sept. 06, at 14:21, Damien Cassou wrote: > >> stephane ducasse a écrit : >>> when selecting the packages here is the most important points: >>> - avoid gadgets (people can load them after, so I would not add >>> UI modification so that people are sure that this is 3.9) >> >> >> I agree but people have to tell me what is gadget and what is not. I >> can't decide for everybody. > > So develop your vision. Be the master of the Squeak-Dev image. > We do not want everything, we want the best and the useful :) > Put your criteria in place and people should be convincing you to get > their stuff in > > > for me > Shout > RB (with services integration) > ecompletion > Smacc > are absolutely necessary ;) Are you sure SmaCC is absolutely necessary ? It is a big package if I remember correctly and only a few people have to create a new language with grammar and syntax. > After dynamic protocol DynamicProtocols are really loved by people trying it. Unless others told me not to include it I will. >> This would require me to look at every packages. A better solution is >> to release a new squeak-dev image often and correct bugs that are found. > > hehehe you are learning the job of a harvester :) > but minimizing the overrides is important. I need advice here -- Damien Cassou |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
Well, since Keymapping is also used by Romain's services (I think, but probably we should ask him), and services are already part of the image, I would add Keymapping and not Keybinder. Once keymapping is in place one could re-write the window switcher to use a keybinding from keymapping. All the other features of KeyBinder are already present in keymapping.
For 3.10 I would vote to add the required modifications to the squeak's event mechanism in the squeak core so further packages could be developed without relying on custom modifications to the event's core. Regards, Hernán On 9/14/06, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote: Hernan Tylim a écrit : -- Saludos, Hernán |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
>> Shout >> RB (with services integration) >> ecompletion >> Smacc >> are absolutely necessary ;) > > > Are you sure SmaCC is absolutely necessary ? It is a big package if > I remember correctly and only a few people have to create a new > language with grammar and syntax. Indeed. You see you developed your vision. So remove Smacc :) >> After dynamic protocol > > > DynamicProtocols are really loved by people trying it. Unless > others told me not to include it I will. ok for me ;) >>> This would require me to look at every packages. A better >>> solution is to release a new squeak-dev image often and correct >>> bugs that are found. >> hehehe you are learning the job of a harvester :) >> but minimizing the overrides is important. > > I need advice here check really the packages to see what are the overrides and after you decide :) Stef |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Hernan Tylim-2
yeap!
On 14 sept. 06, at 15:16, Hernan Tylim wrote: > Well, since Keymapping is also used by Romain's services (I think, > but probably we should ask him), and services are already part of > the image, I would add Keymapping and not Keybinder. Once > keymapping is in place one could re-write the window switcher to > use a keybinding from keymapping. All the other features of > KeyBinder are already present in keymapping. > > For 3.10 I would vote to add the required modifications to the > squeak's event mechanism in the squeak core so further packages > could be developed without relying on custom modifications to the > event's core. > > Regards, > Hernán > > On 9/14/06, Damien Cassou <[hidden email]> wrote: Hernan > Tylim a écrit : > > Hi. > > > > I saw on the web page that KeyBinder might be part of the image so I > > just wanted to warn that KeyBinder does a very subtle hack, but a > hack > > nevertheless, to the key event mechanism in order to trap the key- > bindings. > > > > This warning is because if someone would want to install another > > keybinding mechanism , like keymapping I guess, it might mest > something > > up, but don't know for sure, didn't test it. > > So, what should I do ? KeyBinder is very cool for switching between > windows and other things like this. Does one of you have an opinion ? > > Thank you for pointing this > > -- > Damien Cassou > > > > > > -- > Saludos, > Hernán > |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:14:08 +0200, Damien Cassou wrote:
> stephane ducasse a écrit : ... >> Smacc > > Not sure this one is used by enough people to include it. Opinions ? This used as rare as VMMaker, I mean it is too special. But if Stef would attempt to k*ll me then would you please include it :) /Klaus |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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I vote for SmaCC
On 9/14/06, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]> wrote: > On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:14:08 +0200, Damien Cassou wrote: > > > stephane ducasse a écrit : > > ... > >> Smacc > > > > Not sure this one is used by enough people to include it. Opinions ? > > This used as rare as VMMaker, I mean it is too special. But if Stef would > attempt to k*ll me then would you please include it :) > > /Klaus > > > -- Jason Rogers "Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Proverbs 29:18 |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Hernan Tylim-2
Hernan Tylim a écrit :
> Well, since Keymapping is also used by Romain's services (I think, but > probably we should ask him), and services are already part of the image, > I would add Keymapping and not Keybinder. Once keymapping is in place > one could re-write the window switcher to use a keybinding from > keymapping. All the other features of KeyBinder are already present in > keymapping. Ok. Can some of you implement window switcher in keymapping please ? Thanks -- Damien Cassou |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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Il giorno Sep 14, 2006, alle ore 3:46 PM, Damien Cassou ha scritto:
To make my package less big, I chose to remove the dependency with keymapping. Right now I have a lightweight (one class) system to add a few keyboard shortcuts. (alt-0 to alt-9, ctrl-0 to ctrl-9, ctrl-alt-0 to ctrl-alt-9, and ctrl-alt-left, right, up and down).
I haven't tried it, so what are its functionalities? I'm asking because there is a window switching service already in the image as an example. You can bind the 'nextWindow' service to a keyboard shortcut. Then a previousWindow could be added as well, and that might be enough. Romain
-- Romain Robbes |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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Romain Robbes a écrit :
> > Il giorno Sep 14, 2006, alle ore 3:46 PM, Damien Cassou ha scritto: > >> Hernan Tylim a écrit : >>> Well, since Keymapping is also used by Romain's services (I think, >>> but probably we should ask him), and services are already part of the >>> image, I would add Keymapping and not Keybinder. Once keymapping is >>> in place one could re-write the window switcher to use a keybinding >>> from keymapping. All the other features of KeyBinder are already >>> present in keymapping. >> > > > To make my package less big, I chose to remove the dependency with > keymapping. > > Right now I have a lightweight (one class) system to add a few keyboard > shortcuts. > (alt-0 to alt-9, ctrl-0 to ctrl-9, ctrl-alt-0 to ctrl-alt-9, and > ctrl-alt-left, right, up and down). Cool. Please tell me which package I have to include in the image. Take care that on some keyboards (French ones for example), you have to press SHIFT+0 to have a '0'. >> Can some of you implement window switcher in keymapping please ? >> > > I haven't tried it, so what are its functionalities? Same as in operating systems when you press ALT+TAB: it displays a small dialog on which you can select the window with a snapshot. You may want to try to copy/paste the code from KeyBinder and see if it still works. > I'm asking because there is a window switching service already in the > image as an example. How does it work ? > You can bind the 'nextWindow' service to a keyboard shortcut. > Then a previousWindow could be added as well, and that might be enough. Please add on the wiki http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st/seaside/pier what should be done. -- Damien Cassou |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:24:08 +0200, Damien Cassou wrote:
> Klaus D. Witzel a écrit : >>> It seems there is something very strange with the mouse buttons. The >>> middle click doesn't do the same in windows and in linux. They are >>> swapped. Maybe something in the vm, maybe in the OS. I won't touch >>> this preference. >> Yes, there was some discussion about that confusion here recently. I >> suggest to put a note into the TOP line of a workspace, reminding the >> (possibly novice) user and explaning where to change it. > > Ok Even better: have Preference Browser open and preselect general > swapMouseButtons and activate its explanation so that novices can click on "more". /Klaus |
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Hi
For the packages... maybe we could add FFI ? needed for external browser and OSProcess ... (not sure) XML-Support ? http://www.squeaksource.com/XMLSupport/ Also, to make the tracingMessageBrowser , if I remember well it needed packages from MagmaTester Anyway, if some packages are optional, I think it could be nice to have the repository set up in Monticello SmaCC BrowserBooster DuoSystemBrowser Cryptography Postgres http://www.squeaksource.com/PostgresV2 and other db ?? RFB for vnc access - http://www.squeaksource.com/RFB ... Cédrick |
RE: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
Or perhaps this should be put in, due to VM differences:
Preferences class>>swapMouseButtons "If we are on windows, flip anyway so that we are compatible with other oses." |answer| answer := self valueOfFlag: #swapMouseButtons ifAbsent: [false]. SmalltalkImage current platformName = 'Win32' ifTrue: [answer := answer not]. ^answer Haven't got a Mac etc to see how their VMs behave :-( Added this ince I transfer my image between Windows/Linux environments on a daily basis! > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of > Damien Cassou > Sent: 14 September 2006 1:11 PM > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > Subject: Re: An 3.9 image for developers > > > Klaus D. Witzel a écrit : > > Hi Damien, > > > > on Wed, 13 Sep 2006 17:24:11 +0200, you wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm creating a ready-to-use image for developers based on Squeak > >> 3.9-7057. This image will be published in ftp.squeak.org. > > > > Great, there even the new-to-Squeak'ers will find it. > > > >> Do you want other packages included ? Or preferences that > should be set ? > > > > Yes, please not confusion with platform preferences like mouse > > right-left. Also no unexpected "automagic" change of := to _ and vice > > versa. > > > It seems there is something very strange with the mouse buttons. The > middle click doesn't do the same in windows and in linux. They are > swapped. Maybe something in the vm, maybe in the OS. I won't touch this > preference. > > For the assignment, Shout uses preferences to display := or _. Don't > know what is the best thing to do here. > > > -- > Damien Cassou > > |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Damien Cassou-3
Il giorno Sep 14, 2006, alle ore 4:32 PM, Damien Cassou ha scritto:
That's included in BrowserBooster, no extra package is needed.
That's true ... but I wanted something simple for now .. when a keybinding tool is included in the image, then I could change to that.
I tried to make it work, but it was not usable with the small dialog: i could only get it to select the next window. I had to keep the shortcut pressed to pop up the window, and then it was switching too fast.
It just activates the next window on the stack. It is pretty much a line of code ;-). Actually it seems a good deal of the KeyBinder's functionalities could be implemented this way too.
-- Romain Robbes |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Gary Chambers
Hi Gary,
on Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:58:01 +0200, you wrote: > Or perhaps this should be put in, due to VM differences: > > Preferences class>>swapMouseButtons > "If we are on windows, flip anyway so that we are compatible > with other oses." > > |answer| > answer := self > valueOfFlag: #swapMouseButtons > ifAbsent: [false]. > SmalltalkImage current platformName = 'Win32' Good idea but, what happens when the VM is corrected (the dev.image will be downlodable for many years to come). /Klaus > ifTrue: [answer := answer not]. > ^answer > > > Haven't got a Mac etc to see how their VMs behave :-( > > Added this ince I transfer my image between Windows/Linux environments > on a > daily basis! |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by cbeler
Hi Cédrick,
on Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:56:36 +0200, you wrote: > Hi > > For the packages... > maybe we could add FFI ? needed for external browser and OSProcess ... > (not sure) But the only things which can be called by FFI are guaranteed to be platform depended, how'd you support that? > Anyway, if some packages are optional, I think it could be nice to have > the repository set up in Monticello This one is productivity gain par excellence. But as soon as the repositories go away and/or the dev.image gets older and/or incompatible, what will happen then? DNU's? frustration? confusion? > SmaCC Rather not (even Stef's not looking angry any more ;-) > BrowserBooster > DuoSystemBrowser All that works for producing new software, yes. > Cryptography Impossible due to national laws. > Postgres http://www.squeaksource.com/PostgresV2 and other db ?? Whatever DB it will be, it will also be always the wrong one. Who's using PostgreSQL anyways, I have not seen anybody using it, during the last 30 years (see: experience related). > RFB for vnc access - http://www.squeaksource.com/RFB Productivity for the developer, yes. /Klaus > Cédrick > |
Automatic Button Swap (was Re: An 3.9 image for developers)
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In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel
Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> Hi Gary, > > on Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:58:01 +0200, you wrote: >> Or perhaps this should be put in, due to VM differences: >> >> Preferences class>>swapMouseButtons >> "If we are on windows, flip anyway so that we are compatible >> with other oses." >> >> |answer| >> answer := self >> valueOfFlag: #swapMouseButtons >> ifAbsent: [false]. >> SmalltalkImage current platformName = 'Win32' > > Good idea but, what happens when the VM is corrected (the dev.image will > be downlodable for many years to come). > > /Klaus > >> ifTrue: [answer := answer not]. >> ^answer Please do *not* put such changes in obscure places. There is a well-defined place for that (#setPlatformPreferences). Besides, the actual button behavior depends also on the VM preferences (F2 menu on Windows). That's a much better place to adjust this to your liking. - Bert - |
Re: Automatic Button Swap (was Re: An 3.9 image for developers)
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On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:07:06 +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> Klaus D. Witzel wrote: >> Hi Gary, >> on Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:58:01 +0200, you wrote: >>> Or perhaps this should be put in, due to VM differences: >>> >>> Preferences class>>swapMouseButtons ... > Please do *not* put such changes in obscure places. There is a > well-defined place for that (#setPlatformPreferences). > > Besides, the actual button behavior depends also on the VM preferences > (F2 menu on Windows). That's a much better place to adjust this to your > liking. Great, a dev.image (a COMPUTER :) which automagically adapts Automatic Button Swap to the platform it runs on, can't wait to see that in action (am surrounded by apple'rs at the Bernesian Squeak meetings ;-) Thank you Bert. > - Bert - > > |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Klaus D. Witzel
Klaus D. Witzel a écrit :
> Hi Cédrick, > This one is productivity gain par excellence. But as soon as the > repositories go away and/or the dev.image gets older and/or > incompatible, what will happen then? DNU's? frustration? confusion? It would be cool to keep squeak-dev.image up to date. That is why I'm creating a script to do all the job. We should be able to create new images automatically with new packages. -- Damien Cassou |
Re: An 3.9 image for developers
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In reply to this post by Romain Robbes
Romain Robbes a écrit :
> Il giorno Sep 14, 2006, alle ore 4:32 PM, Damien Cassou ha scritto: >> Romain Robbes a écrit : >>> I'm asking because there is a window switching service already in the >>> image as an example. >> >> How does it work ? >> > It just activates the next window on the stack. It is pretty much a line > of code ;-). > > Actually it seems a good deal of the KeyBinder's functionalities could > be implemented this way too. Please do it, publish and let me know. -- Damien Cassou |
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