Hello everyone, in January Croquet was selected as a foundation technology on top of which the next generation (3rd generation) of Immersive Education will be built. You can read more by clicking on the "POST SUMMIT SUMMARY ANNOUNCEMENT" link (or button) that's on the Immersive Education Initiative site at
http://ImmersiveEducation.org We are now preparing an Immersive Education "Croquet bundle" that includes the runtime, documentation and tutorials, and authoring tools. The learning bundle will be provided both to the Immersive Education K12 pilot schools and higher eduction. A key part of the bundle is the authoring tool, which must be free (ideally open source, but that's a preference and not a requirement -- as long as the authoring tool is free, and not a for-fee product, we can bundle it for educators and students). With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on Blender as a content authoring tool for Croquet. If you've used it, or currently do use it, could you reply with some notes on how well (or not!) Blender works for you when creating Croquet content (3D objects, avatars, scenes/worlds, etc)? If you don't use Blender but use another authoring tool your thoughts about that would be a great help as well -- do you recommend a different free authoring tool, and if not what commercial (for-fee) tool do you use when creating content for Blender (Maya, for example)? With thanks in advance for sharing your Croquet content creating experience as we prepare the Immersive Education learning bundle (which, when it's available, you're more than welcome to use or share with others, of course). Regards, Aaron -- Boston College: http://bc.edu Media Grid: http://MediaGrid.org Immersive Education: http://ImmersiveEducation.org Personal page: http://gridinstitute.com/people/aew/ |
For static content, there are lots of import formats floating around
for Croquet. For animated content, the Minnesota avatar code depends on import through Ogre XML, and this has driven the decision on the tools that I've been using at Qwaq. Fortunately, we're able to use 3DS Max, which has been pretty good about: Importing stuff developed elsewhere in lots of formats, including made-for-Max content or using 3rd party plugins (e.g., for Collada). Rigging & skinning within Max. E.g., the Biped skeleton just works. The Skin modifier is not horrible to use. Exporting as Ogre XML using a 3rd party tool. Alas, I have not been able to achieve all three with less expensive tools. I've tried and failed with Poser, Daz studio, Fragmotion. -H On Feb 24, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Aaron E. Walsh wrote: > Hello everyone, in January Croquet was selected as a foundation > technology on top of which the next generation (3rd generation) of > Immersive Education will be built. You can read more by clicking on > the "POST SUMMIT SUMMARY ANNOUNCEMENT" link (or button) that's on > the Immersive Education Initiative site at > > http://ImmersiveEducation.org > > We are now preparing an Immersive Education "Croquet bundle" that > includes the runtime, documentation and tutorials, and authoring > tools. The learning bundle will be provided both to the Immersive > Education K12 pilot schools and higher eduction. A key part of the > bundle is the authoring tool, which must be free (ideally open > source, but that's a preference and not a requirement -- as long as > the authoring tool is free, and not a for-fee product, we can > bundle it for educators and students). > > With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on Blender as a content > authoring tool for Croquet. If you've used it, or currently do use > it, could you reply with some notes on how well (or not!) Blender > works for you when creating Croquet content (3D objects, avatars, > scenes/worlds, etc)? > > If you don't use Blender but use another authoring tool your > thoughts about that would be a great help as well -- do you > recommend a different free authoring tool, and if not what > commercial (for-fee) tool do you use when creating content for > Blender (Maya, for example)? > > With thanks in advance for sharing your Croquet content creating > experience as we prepare the Immersive Education learning bundle > (which, when it's available, you're more than welcome to use or > share with others, of course). > > Regards, > Aaron > > > > -- > Boston College: http://bc.edu > Media Grid: http://MediaGrid.org > Immersive Education: http://ImmersiveEducation.org > Personal page: http://gridinstitute.com/people/aew/ |
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In reply to this post by Aaron E. Walsh
Hi:
It has occurred to me that Croquet lacks an authoring tool inside it. I have therefore started to port my CAD software to Croquet with the help of three final year students in Malaysia. freeCAD: 3D CAD with Motion Simulation http://ar-cad.com Although not as sophisticated as Blender yet, freeCAD is 100% Visualworks Smalltalk and OpenGL. So porting should be quite simple and the power of Smalltalk can be used to extend it indefinitely. It also adds motion simulation which is very useful for teaching of physics and mechanics. At least two of the students are keen to continue working on this project after graduation in June. I am looking for sponsors to support them. It will cost less than $1000/month/person. Let me know if you have questions or interests. All the best, Aik-Siong Koh > Hello everyone, in January Croquet was selected as a foundation technology > on top of which the next generation (3rd generation) of Immersive Education will be built. You can read more by clicking on the "POST SUMMIT > SUMMARY ANNOUNCEMENT" link (or button) that's on the Immersive Education Initiative site at > > http://ImmersiveEducation.org > > We are now preparing an Immersive Education "Croquet bundle" that includes > the runtime, documentation and tutorials, and authoring tools. The learning bundle will be provided both to the Immersive Education K12 pilot > schools and higher eduction. A key part of the bundle is the authoring tool, which must be free (ideally open source, but that's a preference and > not a requirement -- as long as the authoring tool is free, and not a for-fee product, we can bundle it for educators and students). > > With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on Blender as a content authoring tool for Croquet. If you've used it, or currently do use it, could you reply with some notes on how well (or not!) Blender works for you when creating Croquet content (3D objects, avatars, scenes/worlds, etc)? > > If you don't use Blender but use another authoring tool your thoughts about that would be a great help as well -- do you recommend a different free authoring tool, and if not what commercial (for-fee) tool do you use > when creating content for Blender (Maya, for example)? > > With thanks in advance for sharing your Croquet content creating experience as we prepare the Immersive Education learning bundle (which, when it's available, you're more than welcome to use or share with others, > of course). > > Regards, > Aaron > > > > -- > Boston College: http://bc.edu > Media Grid: http://MediaGrid.org > Immersive Education: http://ImmersiveEducation.org > Personal page: http://gridinstitute.com/people/aew/ > |
In reply to this post by Aaron E. Walsh
On Feb 24, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Aaron E. Walsh wrote: > With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on Blender as a content > authoring tool for Croquet. If you've used it, or currently do use > it, could you reply with some notes on how well (or not!) Blender > works for you when creating Croquet content (3D objects, avatars, > scenes/worlds, etc)? We use Blender in our CNC production company. While it has some strengths, and is impressively gaining new features all the time, it's really not meant for 'lay people'. Anyone with little prior 3D knowledge will find it very hard to use and learn. And honestly, many things Blender focuses on are useless for Croquet. For example, there is a lot of focus lately in the development of Blender on making impressive simulation tools. Like fluids, smoke, and even advanced cloth simulation is in the beta currently. Or in the multi-res subdivision modeling and sculpting. These tools aren't for low-poly avatar and scene modeling honestly, and will probably just confuse folks trying to use Blender, yet are becoming a pretty core element within it. What would be ideal is a in-world content creator. Then you'd also be able to take advantage of the natural benefits of Croquet. For example, having more than one person working on the same thing at the same time in Blender is complex-to-impossible depending on what you're trying to do. An in-world content creator would be a very impressive draw for Croquet in general IMHO. Jeffrey McGrew www.becausewecan.org |
>What would be ideal is a in-world content creator. Then you'd also be
>able to take advantage of the natural benefits of Croquet. I wholeheartedly agree with this assertion. There is no sense in developers/users slinking off to an isolated application corner on their own boxes to create content when a sufficiently capable alternative can be developed within Croquet itself. Isn't collaboration at the core of Croquet's mission? Wouldn't it be great for a consortium of 3D designers and clients to convene communicate and design in all within Croquet?
Regards,
Eric Eisaman
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Jeffrey McGrew <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Jeffrey McGrew-2
Hi,
It's interesting to investigate the state of VW technology, and at the same time get in touch with about 70 typical potential "end-users" of next gen virtual worlds, show them existing demos, talk about capabilities, ... and get their feedback and recommendations. We all want open virtual worlds to be successful isn't it ? Virtual worlds is comprising several areas, most of them under development/enhancement these days-- and sometimes in orthogonal directions. ;-) Let's be frank: objects' format, rendering techno/tool, architectural networking model, .. are all important considerations, but only ONE aspect seems critical to the "end-users": the capability to select, customize, modify avatars with a high flexibility. Today the only really large, rich and flexible avatars management systems we have found are only part of proprietary virtual worlds platforms !! Considering the importance of the avatars' dimension to end-users (psychology), do we want proprietary platforms to be successful in the future instead of open source platforms ? Are we just ostriches when looking at open virtual worlds, animals that put their little heads in the ground moving open virtual worlds the way we think this should be done instead of listening to what the world-wide-population is expecting ? Let it be .. -michel |
In reply to this post by askoh
Hi Aik-Siong Koh,
I'm just curious if your CAD system is both a solid-modeler and a surface-modeler. I think Croquet models would need a surface-modeler more than a solid-modeler for performance reasons and educational purposes. Both might be nice, but for the fewer domains that "require" solid-models current alternative tools might be better. What do you think? Cheers, Darius On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Aik-Siong Koh <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi: > > It has occurred to me that Croquet lacks an authoring tool inside it. I > have therefore started to port my CAD software to Croquet with the help of > three final year students in Malaysia. > freeCAD: 3D CAD with Motion Simulation > http://ar-cad.com > Although not as sophisticated as Blender yet, freeCAD is 100% Visualworks > Smalltalk and OpenGL. So porting should be quite simple and the power of > Smalltalk can be used to extend it indefinitely. It also adds motion > simulation which is very useful for teaching of physics and mechanics. > > At least two of the students are keen to continue working on this project > after graduation in June. I am looking for sponsors to support them. It > will cost less than $1000/month/person. Let me know if you have questions > or interests. > > All the best, > Aik-Siong Koh > > > > > Hello everyone, in January Croquet was selected as a foundation > technology > > on top of which the next generation (3rd generation) of Immersive > Education will be built. You can read more by clicking on the "POST > SUMMIT > > SUMMARY ANNOUNCEMENT" link (or button) that's on the Immersive Education > Initiative site at > > > > http://ImmersiveEducation.org > > > > We are now preparing an Immersive Education "Croquet bundle" that > includes > > the runtime, documentation and tutorials, and authoring tools. The > learning bundle will be provided both to the Immersive Education K12 > pilot > > schools and higher eduction. A key part of the bundle is the authoring > tool, which must be free (ideally open source, but that's a preference > and > > not a requirement -- as long as the authoring tool is free, and not a > for-fee product, we can bundle it for educators and students). > > > > With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on Blender as a content > authoring tool for Croquet. If you've used it, or currently do use it, > could you reply with some notes on how well (or not!) Blender works for > you when creating Croquet content (3D objects, avatars, scenes/worlds, > etc)? > > > > If you don't use Blender but use another authoring tool your thoughts > about that would be a great help as well -- do you recommend a different > free authoring tool, and if not what commercial (for-fee) tool do you > use > > when creating content for Blender (Maya, for example)? > > > > With thanks in advance for sharing your Croquet content creating > experience as we prepare the Immersive Education learning bundle (which, > when it's available, you're more than welcome to use or share with > others, > > of course). > > > > Regards, > > Aaron > > > > > > > > -- > > Boston College: http://bc.edu > > Media Grid: http://MediaGrid.org > > Immersive Education: http://ImmersiveEducation.org > > Personal page: http://gridinstitute.com/people/aew/ > > > > > > > |
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Hi:
Thanks for your interest. My goal for freeCAD since 2000 has been to create a Smalltalk system for Computer Aided Design, Simulation and Manufacturing (CADSM). For the work to date see my paper at Smalltalk Solutions 2007: http://askoh.net/misc/cadsm/kohaS231.pdf It is my believe that Smalltalk can produce better CADSM type software than any other development environment. Now that Croquet is available, it seems very logical to bring freeCAD, hence CADSM, into Croquet. freeCAD uses NURBS boundary representation of solids, faces and edges. So it can be simple or complex. Its GUI is very lacking, so much of the core is not visible. It has an non-manifold topology solid modeler based on radial edge method. It can import STEP files from SolidWorks and DXF files from AutoCAD. Its motion engine is accurate enough for engineering simulation. All the best, Aik-Siong Koh http://ar-cad.com > Hi Aik-Siong Koh, > > I'm just curious if your CAD system is both a solid-modeler and a surface-modeler. I think Croquet models would need a surface-modeler more than a solid-modeler for performance reasons and educational purposes. Both might be nice, but for the fewer domains that "require" solid-models current alternative tools might be better. What do you think? > > Cheers, > Darius > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 4:02 PM, Aik-Siong Koh <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Hi: >> It has occurred to me that Croquet lacks an authoring tool inside it. I >> have therefore started to port my CAD software to Croquet with the help >> of >> three final year students in Malaysia. >> freeCAD: 3D CAD with Motion Simulation >> http://ar-cad.com >> Although not as sophisticated as Blender yet, freeCAD is 100% >> Visualworks >> Smalltalk and OpenGL. So porting should be quite simple and the power >> of >> Smalltalk can be used to extend it indefinitely. It also adds motion simulation which is very useful for teaching of physics and mechanics. At least two of the students are keen to continue working on this >> project >> after graduation in June. I am looking for sponsors to support them. It >> will cost less than $1000/month/person. Let me know if you have >> questions >> or interests. >> All the best, >> Aik-Siong Koh |
In reply to this post by Aaron E. Walsh
--- "Aaron E. Walsh" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hello everyone, in January Croquet was selected as a > foundation technology on top of which the next > generation (3rd generation) of Immersive Education > will be built. You can read more by clicking on the > "POST SUMMIT SUMMARY ANNOUNCEMENT" link (or button) > that's on the Immersive Education Initiative site at > > > http://ImmersiveEducation.org > > We are now preparing an Immersive Education "Croquet > bundle" that includes the runtime, documentation and > tutorials, and authoring tools. ... authoring tool > is free, and not a for-fee product, we can bundle it > for educators and students). > > With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on > Blender as a content authoring tool for Croquet. If > you've used it, or currently do use it, could you > reply with some notes on how well (or not!) Blender > works for you when creating Croquet content (3D > objects, avatars, scenes/worlds, etc)? portfile to get it going on the mac and am in book 2 of Americo tutorials. I've been distracted by other things and hope to pick up my intuitions again. Americo wrote his instructions for pc blender. > > If you don't use Blender ... > > With thanks in advance for sharing your Croquet > content creating experience as we prepare the > Immersive Education learning bundle (which, when > it's available, you're more than welcome to use or > share with others, of course). Will be interested. > > ... > |
In reply to this post by askoh
--- Aik-Siong Koh <[hidden email]> wrote: >... > http://ar-cad.com I looked at this and dispaired, it's probably pc and not for my mac. Then : > Although not as sophisticated as Blender yet, > freeCAD is 100% Visualworks > Smalltalk and OpenGL. So porting should be quite > simple ... google wiki Visualworks and find version of smalltalk So, the whole thing could sit on the virtual machine on any platform, mac or pc or linux box. Cool. |
In reply to this post by Jeffrey McGrew-2
--- Jeffrey McGrew <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Feb 24, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Aaron E. Walsh wrote: > > > With this in mind I'd welcome your thoughts on > Blender as a content > > authoring tool for Croquet. ... > > We use Blender in our CNC production company. While > it has some > strengths, and is impressively gaining new features > all the time, package. How Darwin ports evolve is a mystery to me. I have huge amounts of hypertext in free Maya personal learning edition which might serve to make me not a lay person, though I don't have the investment in digital art to really be their as a non lay person. I have invested in reading an entire textbook by Edward Angel and know enough to know this 3D stuff is fascinating. >it's > really not meant for 'lay people'. Anyone with > little prior 3D > knowledge will find it very hard to use and learn. Maybe I have hope. > > And honestly, many things Blender focuses on are > useless for Croquet. > For example, there is a lot of focus lately in the > development of > Blender on making impressive simulation tools. Like > fluids, smoke, and > even advanced cloth simulation is in the beta > currently. Wow! That stuff made Maya cost $9000. >Or in the > multi-res subdivision modeling and sculpting. These > tools aren't for > low-poly avatar and scene modeling honestly, and > will probably just > confuse folks trying to use Blender, yet are > becoming a pretty core > element within it. So, you are writing this complex payoff without documentation will discourage capturing entry level people. I give a slight counterpoint since I have time to study things not needing employment. I explored Maya before reading openGL programming to see what the "big boys" did. Still, afterwards, undiscouraged, I had much adventure as a "little boy" with "Interactive Computer Graphics". I ask you all to consider that forcing too much of high level or low level experience in packaging produces an imbalance. With Maya, there are little lessons to step through the tomes of manhours embedded in it. With blender there are no documented exercises except Americo's (that's why he's "good", he "made something doable"). With interactive computer graphics, are problems that had to be solved by students for years and in the chapters normally reached in a course tested as soluble by students. I went through the whole book, not just a course, and one chapter had insoluble problems that would take several lifetimes (I didn't do them and tried not to feel guilty, so I would "finish" the book). > > What would be ideal is a in-world content creator. > Then you'd also be > able to take advantage of the natural benefits of > Croquet. I believe in world might mean that all graphics images involve big saves which make images incompatible for collaboration. Rather, in world should mean several should have external files such as obj or ASE that are somehow synced. That is : In world could also mean coexistence in a virtual world as we see each other building stuff together. On muddier ground : Ordinarily, powerful tools cost money and those with capital hire extreme specialists to amortize costs of those tools. When powerful tools don't cost money, we begin to wonder how will many unspecialized people collaborate in complexity. Must we specialize them, how can we allow them to learn, how will they want to learn?! I leave off here to allow your thoughts. |
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