Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
 
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Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux
-- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, getting the message This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504). Suggestions? -Thanks in advance, Jim |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, Jim Rosenberg wrote:
> Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux > -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I haven't > upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ > which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current armv6 squeak VM, > getting the message > > This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504). > > Suggestions? > > -Thanks in advance, Jim > You will need to use a "classic" VM to run this image, because the newer VMs in use today are not able to run a Squeak 4.3 image. You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will run on your Pi. If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354 If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And if it works without problems, please report back so we know. Thanks, Dave |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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Hmph. In the hope of being helpful here I fired off a quick compile of a stack/v3 VM on my Pi (that image is non-spur, and we never did a v3/cog VM because it requires a set of specific instructions to occupy a number of bytes that is a prime number and smells of purple locknuts) BUT it won't actually build.
HOWEVER - you already have a decently suitable squeakvm installed on your Pi, left over from waaaay back when we weren't 100% sure of the newer Scratch system. So, in a terminal, try squeak.old my.image & and see if it works. On my Pi4 it starts up a vanilla 4.3 image straight away.  tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "Bother" said Piglet, as Pooh smeared him in honey. |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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Hi Tim, Looking at recent build the ARMV6 squeak.stack.v3 build passed So it should be possible to build... Does the latest bintray work? Le mar. 19 janv. 2021 à 00:34, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> a écrit :
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Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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> On 2021-01-18, at 3:51 PM, Nicolas Cellier <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Tim, > Looking at recent build > https://travis-ci.com/github/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/builds/213372081 > the ARMV6 squeak.stack.v3 build passed > https://travis-ci.com/github/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm/jobs/472299216 > So it should be possible to build... > Does the latest bintray work? > https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=squeak.stack.v3_linux32ARMv6_202101160259.tar.gz It does! Wonder why it wouldn't build for me. It didn't even leave a LOG file as the cog/spur builds do. So Jim - grab https://bintray.com/opensmalltalk/vm/download_file?file_path=squeak.stack.v3_linux32ARMv6_202101160259.tar.gz - copy to your Pi - `tar xzvf squeak.stack.v3_linux32ARMv6_202101160259.tar.gz ` - `./sqstklinuxhtRPi/squeak my.image &` - Pro$it! tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "Yummy" said Pooh, as he rotated Piglet slowly on the spit. |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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In reply to this post by Jim Rosenberg
Hi Jim, are you up to building your own VM? If so, I've just committed files that may succeed in building a JIT for that image format. If you clone https://github.com/OpenSmalltalk/opensmalltalk-vm.git and cd to build.linuxARMv6/squeak.cog.v3 and run ./makealldirty you may be in luck. Instructions on installing necessary support libraries are in build.linuxARMv6/HowToBuild. Report back to vm-dev if you succeed or you have problems. On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 4:08 AM Jim Rosenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on Linux _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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In reply to this post by David T. Lewis
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote:
>> Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on >> Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I >> haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a >> Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current >> armv6 squeak VM, getting the message >> >> This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504). >> >> Suggestions? --On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" <[hidden email]> wrote: > If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then > the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing > this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354 > > If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And > if it works without problems, please report back so we know. It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom. I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks for the help!! lit-archive 82% squeak -version 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l GNU/Linux plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/] * * * > You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ > which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will > run on your Pi. Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went haywire on my graphics. -Thanks, Jim |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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Good news/bad news. The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with: 1. apt install libpulse-dev 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild. The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on.... cheers bruce 01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote:
First, thank you Bruce! Second: $ git pull $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild $ *PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents. Further, having a discussion here is fine, but one should at least cc the opensmalltalk-vm / vm-dev list. That;'s the proper venue for discussing VM builds/bugs et al.
_,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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> On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: > Good news/bad news. > > The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with: > > 1. apt install libpulse-dev > 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild. > > > First, thank you Bruce! > > Second: > > $ git pull > $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild > $ > > *PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents. If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many. One and only one HowTo, INSTALL or the like in the main directory must suffice. Aint nobody read more, whether we insist or not. Preferably, also only one command (or command chain) to build should exist, but that's another story I'm not opening for debate here. :) -t > Further, having a discussion here is fine, but one should at least cc the opensmalltalk-vm / vm-dev list. That;'s the proper venue for discussing VM builds/bugs et al. > > > The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on.... > > cheers > > bruce > > > > 01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote: > >> Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on > >> Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I > >> haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a > >> Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current > >> armv6 squeak VM, getting the message > >> > >> This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504). > >> > >> Suggestions? > > --On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" > wrote: > > > If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then > > the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing > > this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354 > > > > If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And > > if it works without problems, please report back so we know. > > It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I > tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else > worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The > only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom. > > I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than > vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as > an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set > out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure > found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks > for the help!! > > lit-archive 82% squeak -version > 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc > Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l > GNU/Linux > plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: > /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/] > > * * * > > > You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ > > which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will > > run on your Pi. > > Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that > web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs > in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there > was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went > haywire on my graphics. > > -Thanks, Jim |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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Hi Tobias,
> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:12 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> Good news/bad news. >>> >>> The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with: >>> >>> 1. apt install libpulse-dev >>> 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild. >>> >>> >>> First, thank you Bruce! >>> >>> Second: >>> >>> $ git pull >>> $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild >>> $ >>> >>> *PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents. >> >> If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many. I disagree. We have one build reasons per platform that we build on. Every platform is different. There is a little duplication but the structure we have now means the build documents are situated in the most relevant place. >> One and only one HowTo, INSTALL or the like in the main directory must suffice. >> Aint nobody read more, whether we insist or not. >> >> Preferably, also only one command (or command chain) to build should exist, but that's another story I'm not opening for debate here. >> >> :) >> >> -t >> >> >>> Further, having a discussion here is fine, but one should at least cc the opensmalltalk-vm / vm-dev list. That;'s the proper venue for discussing VM builds/bugs et al. >>> >>> >>> The bad news is that while sound might "work" in the sense that sounds will now be produced we seem to have a problem with the sounds skipping and having pops in them. That's still being worked on.... >>> >>> cheers >>> >>> bruce >>> >>> >>> >>> 01 February 2021 08:36 Jim Rosenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 07:07:25AM -0500, I wrote: >>>> Ouch! I have a lot of artistic work which is developed in Squeak on >>>> Linux -- currently only up to 4.3 (which is working fine for me, so I >>>> haven't upgraded). I'm trying to run one of my 4.3 images on a >>>> Raspberry Pi 3B+ which is at Raspbian 10 (buster), and with the current >>>> armv6 squeak VM, getting the message >>>> >>>> This interpreter (vers. 6521) cannot read image file (vers. 6504). >>>> >>>> Suggestions? >> >> --On Monday, January 18, 2021 09:15:46 AM -0500 "David T. Lewis" >> wrote: >> >>> If you do not mind installing development tools on your Raspberry Pi, then >>> the best thing to do is compile the VM yourself. Instructions for doing >>> this are at http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354 >>> >>> If you have any difficulty building your VM, please ask for help. And >>> if it works without problems, please report back so we know. >> >> It built without a hitch, and worked fine with all but one of the images I >> tested it on. The image that caused me trouble uses sound. Everything else >> worked fine, but the default build seemed not to support sound at all. The >> only drivers were vm-sound-null and vm-sound-custom. >> >> I've had no luck with Linux sound on my desktop using anything other than >> vm-sound-pulse -- that works fine. squeak -h didn't show vm-sound-pulse as >> an available driver oh the version I built on the Raspberry Pi, so I set >> out to fix that. After installing the pulse development library, configure >> found it, and now I have an image on which everything just works. Thanks >> for the help!! >> >> lit-archive 82% squeak -version >> 4.19.5-3796 #1 Wed 20 Jan 2021 08:45:38 AM EST /usr/bin/cc >> Linux lit-archive 5.4.83-v7+ #1379 SMP Mon Dec 14 13:08:57 GMT 2020 armv7l >> GNU/Linux >> plugin path: /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796 [default: >> /usr/local/lib/squeak/4.19.5-3796/] >> >> * * * >> >>> You can find a precompiled VM for ARM v61 at http://squeakvm.org/unix/ >>> which may work, although it is out of date so I am not sure if it will >>> run on your Pi. >> >> Results here are not so happy. The display driver is marked in red on that >> web page as "experimental"; on my images it mangles bitmaps in SketchMorphs >> in a way that is completely unacceptable. It looks almost as though there >> was some kind of attempt to do after-the-fact anti-aliasing that just went >> haywire on my graphics. >> >> -Thanks, Jim > > > > |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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> On 2. Feb 2021, at 08:25, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Tobias, > > >> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:12 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> Good news/bad news. >>>> >>>> The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with: >>>> >>>> 1. apt install libpulse-dev >>>> 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild. >>>> >>>> >>>> First, thank you Bruce! >>>> >>>> Second: >>>> >>>> $ git pull >>>> $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild >>>> $ >>>> >>>> *PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents. >>> >>> If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many. > > I disagree. We have one build reasons per platform that we build on. Every platform is different. There is a little duplication but the structure we have now means the build documents are situated in the most relevant place. While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion or even read these infos. You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people just won't do it. Best regards -tobias :) |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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In reply to this post by Bruce O'Neel-2
There are 3 axes at least here for linux 1. CPU (includes 32/64 bit) 2. OS 3. Distribution All three have to line up for someone to go from a git checkout to a build on an ARM or x86 linux version. So my little hint works correctly on RaspberryPI OS and most other Debian based systems. And not on others. Maybe we should separate out the build instructions into two files? The current build instructions file which references a pre-requisites file or files. I don't like the additional complexity, but, I'd really like the files to be short. I have found over the years that line 25 is the first line not read in the README. For the few that will read the files you have to get all the important info in the first few lines of any instructions. 01 February 2021 08:56 "Bruce O'Neel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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My two cents on this debate:
I think it has already proven in the past that self-explaining code is more efficient for the purpose of documentation than a long manual which (almost) no one is willing to read, especially, this fact has been proven in Smalltalk. Unlike plain English, code is not a redundant structure that can become obsolete, code can be tested automatically, code can be reused, and when decorated with a proper amount of explaining comments, code can also be easier to read than a long wall of text.
In the era of IaC, we should apply the same pattern for the documentation of compile & build processes. This was also my motivation for https://github.com/LinqLover/squeak-raspi-docker.
It could be a Dockerfile, a Vagrantfile, or maybe also a simple bash file - the main thing is to write something that can be automated in a CI. And when there are 2 times x times y build scripts, one could talk about refactoring these scripts in the same way we refactor Morphic code or Collections logic or whatever else. I could imagine this could be much more fun than asking developers to write walls of "unstructured data", i.e. text. :-)
Best, Christoph Von: Squeak-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2021 17:23:34 An: [hidden email]; The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi There are 3 axes at least here for linux
1. CPU (includes 32/64 bit)
2. OS
3. Distribution
All three have to line up for someone to go from a git checkout to a build on an ARM or x86 linux version. So my little hint works correctly on RaspberryPI OS and most other Debian based systems. And not on others.
Maybe we should separate out the build instructions into two files?
The current build instructions file which references a pre-requisites file or files.
I don't like the additional complexity, but, I'd really like the files to be short. I have found over the years that line 25 is the first line not read in the README. For the few that will read the files you have to get all the important info in the
first few lines of any instructions.
01 February 2021 08:56 "Bruce O'Neel" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Carpe Squeak!
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Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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In reply to this post by Tobias Pape
> On 2021-02-02, at 1:07 AM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion or even read these infos. > You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people just won't do it. So the solution is to link them together in some manner, surely? We do really need the different details for the various types of vm & platforms. Would it be plausible to use Markdown format to link sections, or build a bundled doc? tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Understands English as well as any parrot. |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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It was only after 20 years of using Squeak that I was ever able to successfully build my first VM ever, just the other day, and only because the platform-specific instructions were good enough that even I was able to figure out the missing libraries myself. Whatever is being discussed here about the HowToBuild's, I hope it is not about taking it back to some "generic" instructions that require expert C++ development knowledge to be able to figure out. That's probably where the idea that "no one reads it" came from because, sure, if it targets a "members only" C++ experts audience that doesn't need documentation, it won't get read. Likewise, when non-experts (e.g., me) spend valuable time trying, but failing, to build, it also won't get read again for a long time, because it's safer to just keep scraping up pre-built binaries wherever they can find them, rather than risk wasting more time failing to build. Being able to build makes Squeak more valuable. Whatever the solution, I hope this usability will not regress. - Chris On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 12:22 PM tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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In reply to this post by Tobias Pape
Tobias,
> On Feb 2, 2021, at 1:07 AM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > >> On 2. Feb 2021, at 08:25, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Hi Tobias, >> >> >>>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:12 PM, Tobias Pape <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 2. Feb 2021, at 04:12, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 31, 2021 at 11:56 PM Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> Good news/bad news. >>>>> >>>>> The good news is that Pulse sound driver can be solved with: >>>>> >>>>> 1. apt install libpulse-dev >>>>> 2. Make sure you say yes to clean, and rebuild. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> First, thank you Bruce! >>>>> >>>>> Second: >>>>> >>>>> $ git pull >>>>> $ grep -i libpulse build.linux*/HowToBuild >>>>> $ >>>>> >>>>> *PLEASE* (pretty please wit bells on, I'm *begging you*) make sure that build instructions are added to the various HowToBuild files. One cannot expect people to be able to build the VM if we don't maintain the documents. >>>> >>>> If we have more than one build-instruction document, we have too many. >> >> I disagree. We have one build reasons per platform that we build on. Every platform is different. There is a little duplication but the structure we have now means the build documents are situated in the most relevant place. > > While it is true what you say, no-one is going to expect this dispersion or even read these infos. > You can say that this is not proper, and you might be right, but people just won't do it. This is your projection. You do not know that this is the case. And it won’t be true of all people. Instead of being negative, encouraging others to do the right thing might improve things. > > Best regards > -tobias :) _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone) |
Re: Cannot read 4.3 image on Raspberry Pi
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In reply to this post by Bruce O'Neel-2
Hi Bruce,
On Feb 2, 2021, at 8:24 AM, Bruce O'Neel <[hidden email]> wrote:
The alternative is having people trawl the web, email lists, etc for information that will inevitably be incoherent. Hence the alternative is having people fail to build the vm. And in the long term that will not contribute the the health and growth of the community.
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