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Confused about how to get everything set up

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Matt Chelen

Confused about how to get everything set up

Hey everyone,

Currently, I'm looking into Squeak due to its dynamic environment that allows things to change at runtime, and its strong cross-platform support. One of the things I'd need to do is set up a database plugin, which I've been looking into. The seemingly most developed one I could find was SqueakDBX ( http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6052 ...if there's a better one, I'm all ears :) ), but the Wiki there is apparently deprecated, and both of the sites listed there seem to not be available.

Reading the list of requirements, I'd need OpenDBX (of which, from the provided instructions, I must admit I was confused on how to set up...do I need the Unix-like packages for a Win32 system?), FFI (which can be installed through universes, apparently, but the latest universe package, 3.10, seems to have been released several years ago, and the FFI packages are probably outdated? I also looked at FFI's source page and was not sure what I needed to download to get it set up on a Win32 system. Do I need the Kernel AND the Win32 package? Just the Win32 package?), and SqueakDBX core (I THINK the latest package, listed here ( http://www.squeaksource.com/SqueakDBX/ ) is version 283, but there are a ton of other packages listed there that I don't know if I need or not...).

Then assuming I've got all that sorted out, and assuming SqueakDBX is the way to go, I'm not entirely sure how to install packages/plugins. Is there anything else I'd need?

Thanks in advance guys, and apologies for so many questions and confusion all in one. :)

--
Matt C

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Amir Ansari

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

There's a good overview of database options in the Seaside book: http://book.seaside.st/book/advanced/persistency

And the Pharo book also has chapters (in Section 6) describing each of these packages: http://book.pharo-project.org/book/table-of-contents/

Amir

On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 23:53:53 -0500
Matt Chelen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> Currently, I'm looking into Squeak due to its dynamic environment that
> allows things to change at runtime, and its strong cross-platform support.
> One of the things I'd need to do is set up a database plugin, which I've
> been looking into. The seemingly most developed one I could find was
> SqueakDBX ( http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6052 ...if there's a better one,
> I'm all ears :) ), but the Wiki there is apparently deprecated, and both of
> the sites listed there seem to not be available.
>
> Reading the list of requirements, I'd need OpenDBX (of which, from the
> provided instructions, I must admit I was confused on how to set up...do I
> need the Unix-like packages for a Win32 system?), FFI (which can be
> installed through universes, apparently, but the latest universe package,
> 3.10, seems to have been released several years ago, and the FFI packages
> are probably outdated? I also looked at FFI's source page and was not sure
> what I needed to download to get it set up on a Win32 system. Do I need the
> Kernel AND the Win32 package? Just the Win32 package?), and SqueakDBX core
> (I THINK the latest package, listed here (
> http://www.squeaksource.com/SqueakDBX/ ) is version 283, but there are a
> ton of other packages listed there that I don't know if I need or not...).
>
> Then assuming I've got all that sorted out, and assuming SqueakDBX is the
> way to go, I'm not entirely sure how to install packages/plugins. Is there
> anything else I'd need?
>
> Thanks in advance guys, and apologies for so many questions and confusion
> all in one. :)
> --
> Matt C

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Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

Administrator

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

The easiest way to load SqueakDBX is with Metacello, which will load any required dependencies for you:

Installer ss
project: 'MetacelloRepository';
install: 'ConfigurationOfSqueakDBX'.

(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSqueakDBX) project stableVersion load.

HTH,
Sean

Cheers,
Sean

Matt Chelen

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

The main draw to SqueakDBX was the support for a wide variety of databases, whereas Seaside only seems to support a database called SandstoneDB which does not allow concurrent access, it looks like. In particular, I was looking into using PostgreSQL for the database.

I also didn't see anything mentioning if various aspects of Seaside could be used for non-web-oriented applications.

Getting started in learning Squeak, I also noticed that the main way to share programs involves sending a code file in some form or another. Is there any way to set a program to not be open-source?

--
Matt

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Matt Chelen

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

Sean,

I attempted to set up SqueakDBX using the method you recommended, and
when it didn't work (couldn't find one of the objects, and I kept
getting something similar to "Nothing expected ->"), I attempted to hunt
down Metacello on Google Code and install it using the method they
recommended, which also didn't work.

I'm also looking into OpenGL packages (I figure I might as well figure
all this out now and save myself the headache later), but none of them
seem to be available in the SqueakMap. In particular, I was looking at
AlienOpenGL and Lumiere.

-Matt
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John McKeon

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

Hello Matt,

If you want to use PostgreSQL it has the simplest route to DB connectivity since there are *no* external libraries required. It's all TCP/IP from the image to Postgres.

You can use Metacello with

Installer ss
project: 'MetacelloRepository';

install: 'ConfigurationOfPostgresV2'.

ConfigurationOfPostgresV2 load

(The reason you see Smalltalk at: Config.. in Sean's scrript is so that you can select the whole script and "Do It". This way you DoIt the first part, then the second).

Also note that the configuration will probably install Cryptography which is needed if you have to use MD5 hashed passwords for access to the Postgres server.

If not, you can use Monticello directly to just load the latest PosgresV2 package. But to do that you have to add the repository to Monticello first....

John

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:50 AM, Matt Chelen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sean,

I attempted to set up SqueakDBX using the method you recommended, and when it didn't work (couldn't find one of the objects, and I kept getting something similar to "Nothing expected ->"), I attempted to hunt down Metacello on Google Code and install it using the method they recommended, which also didn't work.

I'm also looking into OpenGL packages (I figure I might as well figure all this out now and save myself the headache later), but none of them seem to be available in the SqueakMap. In particular, I was looking at AlienOpenGL and Lumiere.

-Matt
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Levente Uzonyi-2

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

On Mon, 7 Nov 2011, Matt Chelen wrote:

> The main draw to SqueakDBX was the support for a wide variety of databases,
> whereas Seaside only seems to support a database called SandstoneDB which

Seaside can be used with any kind of persistence solution. SandstoneDB was
written for Seaside and not the other way.

> does not allow concurrent access, it looks like. In particular, I was
> looking into using PostgreSQL for the database.

We're using the native PostgresSQL libraries (both V2 and V3) with
Seaside. Never tried SqueakDBX for real, but AFAIK it still uses FFI
(which is still single threaded in most cases).

>
> I also didn't see anything mentioning if various aspects of Seaside could
> be used for non-web-oriented applications.

Seaside is for web developement only.

>
> Getting started in learning Squeak, I also noticed that the main way to
> share programs involves sending a code file in some form or another. Is
> there any way to set a program to not be open-source?

You don't have to share the source code at all, but with any other
language which uses bytecodes (java, c#, actionscript, etc), decompilation
is possible.

Levente

>
> --
> Matt
>
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Matt Chelen

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

John,

I'm still having issues with getting the Metacello scripts to load
correctly. In your script, "ConfigurationofPostgresV2" was shown as an
unknown variable, and trying to declare it global resulted in an error.
I also tried running Installer ss, then Conf... but the same thing happened.

As far as Postgres goes, is there anything more secure than MD5 available?

On the Metacello install page (
http://code.google.com/p/metacello/wiki/DownloadMetacello ), the script
they provide doesn't seem to work either.

I should probably say that ultimately, I intend to set up a server of
some sort, probably close to a MUD or MU*. Right now, I'm looking at
libraries for a couple of things, mainly just to have and possibly to
learn how to obtain said libraries.

My checklist includes:
- OpenGL (Lumiere seems like a good choice)
- PostgreSQL-compatible database interface
- Some form of multithreading

I'm assuming internet connection can be done without any libraries over
TCP/IP and/or TCP/UDP?

Thanks,
-Matt
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Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

Administrator

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

Matt Chelen wrote

I attempted to set up SqueakDBX using the method you recommended, and
when it didn't work

I'll forward your issue to Mariano and see if he can help...

Sean

Cheers,
Sean

Sean P. DeNigris

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

Administrator

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

Matt Chelen wrote

I attempted to set up SqueakDBX using the method you recommended, and
when it didn't work (couldn't find one of the objects, and I kept
getting something similar to "Nothing expected ->")

I'm sorry about all the frustration. A few things:
* what version of Squeak are you using? All the scripts provided in this thread have worked for me in 4.2
* the thing that seems like an error is probably the "unknown selector" dialog. That is normal. Squeak doesn't recognize the selector because it hasn't been loaded yet (with Metacello). Just click on the first item to tell Squeak that you meant what you typed and it will load.
* In general, the more detail you can provide on failure, the easier it will be for the community to help. "It didn't work" is too general to be useful.
* You don't have to load Metacello; It will load automatically when you use it. That said, what problem did you have loading Metacello per the website? I copy and pasted the "Squeak" script from the link you provided and it loaded fine.
* What specific error did you have installing Postgres? The script provided earlier in this thread worked for me...

Take what you need from this, which works in 4.2:

"Install Metacello - this is not necessary, but works
Installer squeaksource
project: 'MetacelloRepository';
install: 'ConfigurationOfMetacello'.
(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfMetacello) perform: #load."

"Install SqueakDBX"
Installer ss
project: 'MetacelloRepository';
install: 'ConfigurationOfSqueakDBX'.

(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSqueakDBX) project stableVersion load.

"Install Postgres"
Installer ss
project: 'MetacelloRepository';
install: 'ConfigurationOfPostgresV2'.

(Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfPostgresV2) load.

HTH,
Sean

Cheers,
Sean

Matt Chelen

Re: Confused about how to get everything set up

In reply to this post by Matt Chelen

Sean,

The two scripts in your latest message worked instantly (and woah, tons
of installs). Thanks. I may have just put something in wrong, but it was
odd that it didn't work any of the times.

Now, is there a Lumiere Metacello Repository by any chance?

Also, is there anything in particular I can read up on about
multi-threading in Squeak/Smalltalk?

-Matt
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