Cross post to enlighten the eite
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Cross post to enlighten the eite
 
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On 5/6/16, Kirk Fraser <[hidden email]> wrote: > Byte magazine which published the balloon concept for Smalltalk rising > above the ivory tower of a lighthouse guiding the way in a sea of computer > languages is out of business. I think it is time for the Squeak balloon to > be grounded to connect with the reality of why computer languages exist - > to make things easy for application developers. So I propose all Squeak > developers stop "improving" Squeak for one year and spend the time writing > useful applications in Squeak. That could lead to a basket of new ideas > for next year. Maybe make this a regularly scheduled event - a half year > for applications and a half year for Squeak? > > The reason motivating this suggestion is on the advice of a Squeak-Dev > member, I downloaded the latest all in one and to my chagrin, I found an > improvement that made Squeak as worthless as a balloon full of machine gun > holes. The Workspace window gets halos with a right mouse click on a > standard 2 button laptop mouse. So I'll return to an older Squeak for now. > Hi, In which version of Squeak does this happen? 4.6 or 5.0? --Hannes Not just any 5.0 but 15113, the most recent download available on 5/5/16. In college I read teachers discovered innovation for the sake of innovation was worthless. It is time Squeak-Dev learned that and only make useful improvements. I can't remember the Halo ever once being useful. Take a class in SolidWorks and do that in Squeak instead of Morphic an other not useful improvements. A fast VM is useful, but sometimes working applications are more useful than a library of stubs. |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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- Choose menu 'Tools' -> 'Preferences',
- search for 'swap' - Change settings of preference 'swapMouseButton' (exchanges mouse button 2 and 3). On 5/7/16, ReliableRobots.com <[hidden email]> wrote: > On 5/6/16, Kirk Fraser <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Byte magazine which published the balloon concept for Smalltalk rising >> above the ivory tower of a lighthouse guiding the way in a sea of >> computer >> languages is out of business. I think it is time for the Squeak balloon >> to >> be grounded to connect with the reality of why computer languages exist - >> to make things easy for application developers. So I propose all Squeak >> developers stop "improving" Squeak for one year and spend the time >> writing >> useful applications in Squeak. That could lead to a basket of new ideas >> for next year. Maybe make this a regularly scheduled event - a half year >> for applications and a half year for Squeak? >> >> The reason motivating this suggestion is on the advice of a Squeak-Dev >> member, I downloaded the latest all in one and to my chagrin, I found an >> improvement that made Squeak as worthless as a balloon full of machine >> gun >> holes. The Workspace window gets halos with a right mouse click on a >> standard 2 button laptop mouse. So I'll return to an older Squeak for > now. >> > > Hi, > > In which version of Squeak does this happen? 4.6 or 5.0? > > --Hannes > > Not just any 5.0 but 15113, the most recent download available on 5/5/16. > > In college I read teachers discovered innovation for the sake of innovation > was worthless. It is time Squeak-Dev learned that and only make useful > improvements. I can't remember the Halo ever once being useful. Take a > class in SolidWorks and do that in Squeak instead of Morphic an other not > useful improvements. A fast VM is useful, but sometimes working > applications are more useful than a library of stubs. > |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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In reply to this post by ReliableRobots.com
Cross post from where? Also, I guess that the subject meant to say "elite". Is that pejorative? If so, what are your negative feelings about "the squeak elite"? This community should be inclusive and welcoming; we're too small to prosper otherwise. So if people are feeling excluded, or marginalized, we should discuss why and see if we can do something about it. _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
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Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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To all new users, I recommend taking an hour to go through all the
preferences in the Preferences browser, read the descriptions and experiment with them and and determine which setting is to your liking. That hour will pay you back 100-fold per year because work will be enhanced by a system that responds better to how you work. On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Eliot Miranda <[hidden email]> wrote: > Cross post from where? > > Also, I guess that the subject meant to say "elite". Is that pejorative? > If so, what are your negative feelings about "the squeak elite"? This > community should be inclusive and welcoming; we're too small to prosper > otherwise. So if people are feeling excluded, or marginalized, we should > discuss why and see if we can do something about it. > > _,,,^..^,,,_ (phone) > > On May 7, 2016, at 5:53 AM, ReliableRobots.com <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > On 5/6/16, Kirk Fraser <[hidden email]> wrote: >> Byte magazine which published the balloon concept for Smalltalk rising >> above the ivory tower of a lighthouse guiding the way in a sea of computer >> languages is out of business. I think it is time for the Squeak balloon to >> be grounded to connect with the reality of why computer languages exist - >> to make things easy for application developers. So I propose all Squeak >> developers stop "improving" Squeak for one year and spend the time writing >> useful applications in Squeak. That could lead to a basket of new ideas >> for next year. Maybe make this a regularly scheduled event - a half year >> for applications and a half year for Squeak? >> >> The reason motivating this suggestion is on the advice of a Squeak-Dev >> member, I downloaded the latest all in one and to my chagrin, I found an >> improvement that made Squeak as worthless as a balloon full of machine gun >> holes. The Workspace window gets halos with a right mouse click on a >> standard 2 button laptop mouse. So I'll return to an older Squeak for >> now. >> > > Hi, > > In which version of Squeak does this happen? 4.6 or 5.0? > > --Hannes > > Not just any 5.0 but 15113, the most recent download available on 5/5/16. > > In college I read teachers discovered innovation for the sake of innovation > was worthless. It is time Squeak-Dev learned that and only make useful > improvements. I can't remember the Halo ever once being useful. Take a > class in SolidWorks and do that in Squeak instead of Morphic an other not > useful improvements. A fast VM is useful, but sometimes working applications > are more useful than a library of stubs. > > > > > |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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In reply to this post by Eliot Miranda-2
On Sat, May 07, 2016 at 08:12:56AM -0700, Eliot Miranda wrote:
> Cross post from where? > > Also, I guess that the subject meant to say "elite". Is that pejorative? If so, what are your negative feelings about "the squeak elite"? This community should be inclusive and welcoming; we're too small to prosper otherwise. So if people are feeling excluded, or marginalized, we should discuss why and see if we can do something about it. > It is from [hidden email]. This is a low volume list that is well worth joining. Dave |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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In reply to this post by ReliableRobots.com
Leaving aside the pontificatory apoctypha for a moment -
> Not just any 5.0 but 15113, the most recent download available on 5/5/16. Funny. My download of the same package shows that it starts up with the expected behaviour of the right button raising a menu and the middle button opening the halo. This is as expected and as has been the case for a long time. It happens to be the *wrong* way in my opinion since quite obviously a middle button (and all mice should have three, clearly) ought to open the contextual menus. However, the preference is trivial to find and many unfortunates are inured to wrong way through a sad life of deprivation and privation whilst using inferior systems. Halos have been part of Morphic since before the dinosaurs roamed the earth. They are not an 'improvement that made Squeak as worthless as a balloon full of machine gun holes. ' that has suddenly been foisted upon you by those of us in the elite {strokes white Persian cat while glaring at you from the Volcano Lair(™) on my secret estate on a Pacific Island} as a way of ruining your morning. For the right button to open a halo would require a) the preference being set that way in the release; which it is clearly not. b) the preference having been set by the user, either deliberately or accidentally c) the preference having been set previously, saved and then loaded by the user d) the device’s mouse driver being swapped e) use of a vm flag such as ‘-swapbtn’ on unix and probably others on Mac/Windows. > > In college I read teachers discovered innovation for the sake of innovation was worthless. It is time Squeak-Dev learned that and only make useful improvements. I’m glad I didn’t go to a college like that. > I can't remember the Halo ever once being useful. Take a class in SolidWorks and do that in Squeak instead of Morphic an other not useful improvements. The only useful part of the Solidworks UI I ever found was the exit. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful Latin Phrases:- Canis meus id comedit = My dog ate it. |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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Tim, I think you may have something set up on your test system like you have on RPi's for Scratch, so a different VM than the one in the latest download is running your image perhaps? I don't know the path that normally gets followed but when I copy squeak.exe from the LinuxAndWindows directory to the Resources directory and run it there, the halo result of a right click on an open window happens. Sorry to pop your balloon. Kirk On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 2:07 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: Leaving aside the pontificatory apoctypha for a moment - |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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On Sat, 7 May 2016, ReliableRobots.com wrote:
> Tim, > I think you may have something set up on your test system like you have on RPi's for Scratch, so a different VM than the one in the latest download is running your image perhaps? I don't know the path that > normally gets followed but when I copy squeak.exe from the LinuxAndWindows directory to the Resources directory and run it there, the halo result of a right click on an open window happens. If you copy Squeak.exe, then you should copy the Squeak.ini file as well, because that contains the 3ButtonMouse setting. Without that, the VM will think that you're using a 2 button mouse. Levente > > Sorry to pop your balloon. > > Kirk > > > > On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 2:07 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: > Leaving aside the pontificatory apoctypha for a moment - > > > > Not just any 5.0 but 15113, the most recent download available on 5/5/16. > > Funny. My download of the same package shows that it starts up with the expected behaviour of the right button raising a menu and the middle button opening the halo. This is as expected and as has > been the case for a long time. It happens to be the *wrong* way in my opinion since quite obviously a middle button (and all mice should have three, clearly) ought to open the contextual menus. > However, the preference is trivial to find and many unfortunates are inured to wrong way through a sad life of deprivation and privation whilst using inferior systems. > > Halos have been part of Morphic since before the dinosaurs roamed the earth. They are not an 'improvement that made Squeak as worthless as a balloon full of machine gun holes. ' that has suddenly > been foisted upon you by those of us in the elite {strokes white Persian cat while glaring at you from the Volcano Lair(™) on my secret estate on a Pacific Island} as a way of ruining your > morning. > > For the right button to open a halo would require > a) the preference being set that way in the release; which it is clearly not. > b) the preference having been set by the user, either deliberately or accidentally > c) the preference having been set previously, saved and then loaded by the user > d) the device’s mouse driver being swapped > e) use of a vm flag such as ‘-swapbtn’ on unix and probably others on Mac/Windows. > > > > > In college I read teachers discovered innovation for the sake of innovation was worthless. It is time Squeak-Dev learned that and only make useful improvements. > > I’m glad I didn’t go to a college like that. > > > I can't remember the Halo ever once being useful. Take a class in SolidWorks and do that in Squeak instead of Morphic an other not useful improvements. > > The only useful part of the Solidworks UI I ever found was the exit. > > > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > Useful Latin Phrases:- Canis meus id comedit = My dog ate it. > > > > > > |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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Is there a squeak.ini setting to make it work on an old Win98? I have to use a Win98 computer for an old CNC machine. On Sun, May 8, 2016 at 2:21 AM, Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> wrote: On Sat, 7 May 2016, ReliableRobots.com wrote: |
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In reply to this post by ReliableRobots.com
On Sat, May 7, 2016 at 8:53 PM, ReliableRobots.com <[hidden email]> wrote:
When I was new Squeak, Halos were critical to my learning how things worked under the covers. Typically it went something like this... 1. "Hmmm.... how do I make my own program do X? " 2. "Oh, there's a menu item that does something similar". 3. On that menu item using Halos > Debug > Inspect, dig in to find which code block is executed. Insert a "self halt" there. 4. Make use of the menu item, then in the debugger that appears, trace through to learn how it works. cheers -ben |
Re: Cross post to enlighten the eite
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In reply to this post by ReliableRobots.com
> On 07-05-2016, at 9:42 PM, ReliableRobots.com <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Tim, > > I think you may have something set up on your test system like you have on RPi's for Scratch, so a different VM than the one in the latest download is running your image perhaps? I tested a fresh download on my iMac. On my Pi’s the vm startup script does not have any button swap command; indeed it is the same script as on anyone else’s Pi. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Settled some during shipping and handling. |
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