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horrido

Dark Mode

I found this interesting article. I wanted to express my opinion...

Dark mode looks cool and all, but it does have a downside. I was very happy with the normal Pharo 5.0 look, but when Pharo 6.0 came out with its dark theme, I was rather put off by it. For me, at least, the dark theme makes it harder to read the text. Too bad Pharo isn't themable.

Damien Pollet-2

Re: Dark Mode

Sure it is… AFAIK the light theme is still available in the settings

On 27 August 2017 at 00:40, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:

I found this interesting article
<https://hackernoon.com/apple-and-others-need-a-dark-mode-for-people-like-molly-watt-ae9fdc38479f>
. I wanted to express my opinion...

Dark mode looks cool and all, but it does have a downside. I was very happy
with the normal Pharo 5.0 look, but when Pharo 6.0 came out with its dark
theme, I was rather put off by it. For me, at least, the dark theme makes it
harder to read the text. Too bad Pharo isn't themable.

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Dark-Mode-tp4964409.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

horrido

Re: Dark Mode

Oh, cool! I didn't realize that. (I've never had a need to look at Settings.)

Thanks.

CyrilFerlicot

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by Damien Pollet-2

Le 27/08/2017 à 02:52, Damien Pollet a écrit :
> Sure it is… AFAIK the light theme is still available in the settings
>

There is also the possibility to do it through the welcome window.

--
Cyril Ferlicot
https://ferlicot.fr

http://www.synectique.eu
2 rue Jacques Prévert 01,
59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France

signature.asc (836 bytes) Download Attachment

alistairgrant

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by horrido

On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 03:40:04PM -0700, horrido wrote:
> I found this interesting article
> <https://hackernoon.com/apple-and-others-need-a-dark-mode-for-people-like-molly-watt-ae9fdc38479f>
> . I wanted to express my opinion...
>
> Dark mode looks cool and all, but it does have a downside. I was very happy
> with the normal Pharo 5.0 look, but when Pharo 6.0 came out with its dark
> theme, I was rather put off by it. For me, at least, the dark theme makes it
> harder to read the text. Too bad Pharo isn't themable.

I completely agree - dark mode is great for content that you want to
look cool, but no one consumes. :-)

You can also automate switching to the light theme with a startup.st:

StartupPreferencesLoader default executeAtomicItems: {
StartupAction
name: 'Set light theme'
code: [ Pharo3Theme beCurrent ]
runOnce: true.

}

Disclaimer: my startup.st is different, I haven't tested this, but
hopefully you can figure it out from here.

Cheers,
Alistair

Tim Mackinnon

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by horrido

It's also a single click in the Welcome screen - which is maybe too obvious ;)

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Aug 2017, at 03:17, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Oh, cool! I didn't realize that. (I've never had a need to look at Settings.)
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Dark-Mode-tp4964409p4964436.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

Peter Uhnak

Re: Dark Mode

> Too bad Pharo isn't themable.

If you don't know whether it is themable, you can just ask instead of issuing statements. ;)

I've also seen Sublimish theme (don't know where the repo is), Dark Metal Theme ( https://github.com/estebanlm/themes ), Kilon has blue-ish theme (I don't think he published it anywhere), and there was also ubuntu theme (not sure if it still works, https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/ubuntu-theme-for-pharo/)

But white & dark are supported. (I switch between them regularly, especially on projector.)

Of course you can create your own theme.

Peter

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Tim Mackinnon <[hidden email]> wrote:

It's also a single click in the Welcome screen - which is maybe too obvious ;)

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Aug 2017, at 03:17, horrido <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Oh, cool! I didn't realize that. (I've never had a need to look at Settings.)
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Dark-Mode-tp4964409p4964436.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

kilon.alios

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by alistairgrant

I completely agree - dark mode is great for content that you want to
look cool, but no one consumes. :-)

You assume wrong cause dark themes have been dominating GUIs for over 3 decades now. Pharo was the rare exception of using a white theme. Light themes may be popular but white are definitely not. The web is the last fort of bright themes, but the web was and still is eons behind when it comes to matters of UI.

My first computer was black background with green fonts, black back in 80 and 90s was pretty much the norm. There was no white or bright themes back then. It was not because the monitors had any issues with displaying white.

It was actually the web that made white a thing. Probably inexperienced web coders (there were no web devs back then ) thought it made sense transitioning from paper. Problem is that paper , reflects light, does not emit it.

White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same. Some eyes have hard time distinguishing elements in dark environments , others have hard time distinguishing elements in bright environments but excel at dark environments. I belong to the second case as such white themes for me are pretty much unacceptable for any content I have to read for a long time.

My monitor as we speak is set to 1/16th of its brightness which is the minimum setting. During the day that sun goes in my room it goes up to 3/16 maximum. Above that I am forced to simply reduce the light in the room.

Trying to use Moose especially that was even brighter it was even harder for me to the point I gave up and never used it since then.

So yes there are many of us who were raised with dark themes, still use dark themes , will continue to use dark themes and criticise any app that does not support them. For me the Dark theme has been the most important improvement of Pharo and I am not exaggerating one tiny bit.

kilon.alios

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by Peter Uhnak

Kilon has blue-ish theme (I don't think he published it anywhere),

The theme is called Nireas , its a dark theme based on blue color and is inspired by the best computer of all time. Amiga 500.

Nireas is also a special theme because its a themable theme. It comes with a GUI that allows you to change its colors very easily to whatever you like. Should have probably named it "Chameleon" ;)

I was planning to create also a preset system for it but I have been so happy with the blue theme that I never bothered it , together with the fact that none shown an actual interest in having a theme creation GUI. Of course people think its a cool idea, but I am talking here actual help, not words.

Its super easy to get Nireas, it installs with a single click from the Package Browser from inside the image , like you install many other things. Its tested with each version because well, I always use the latest version of Pharo and there is close to zero reason why it would not work other than someone actually changing the theme classes. Of course its hosted on Github

https://github.com/kilon/Nireas

Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by kilon.alios

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference is
> also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better
with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

kilon.alios

Re: Dark Mode

what research institute reached that conclusion the same institute that claims that Pharo and Git cannot mix ?

Please say to your institute to do a simple search on google search and put two words "code editor" and then click the "images" section and then say hello to reality. In the first 40 most popular results only 2 use a light theme. The rest of results is 60/40 dark/light. We agree one things though, its definitely sufficiently clear which one is the most popular.

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:47 PM stephan <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference is
> also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better
with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

alistairgrant

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by kilon.alios

Hi Dimitris,

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 08:37:56PM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> I completely agree - dark mode is great for content that you want to
> look cool, but no one consumes. :-)

I actually meant this in jest, which is why it has the smiley face
afterwords.

I don't know which is more popular, light or dark themes, I'm glad that
Pharo makes it easy to automatically change to which ever one prefers -
which was what the code following this sentence was demonstrating.

> You assume wrong cause dark themes have been dominating GUIs for over 3 decades
> now. Pharo was the rare exception of using a white theme. Light themes may be
> popular but white are definitely not. The web is the last fort of bright
> themes, but the web was and still is eons behind when it comes to matters of
> UI.
>
> My first computer was black background with green fonts, black back in 80 and
> 90s was pretty much the norm. There was no white or bright themes back then. It
> was not because the monitors had any issues with displaying white.

I had my terminals set to black background with green fonts up to last
year since that is what I was used to from my Dick Smith System 80
(TRS-80 clone). :-)

Going slightly off topic: I suspect terminals used a dark theme by
default because a light theme would burn out the CRT. If I remember
correctly, DEC VT-220's had a light theme (which I didn't use).

> It was actually the web that made white a thing. Probably inexperienced web
> coders (there were no web devs back then ) thought it made sense transitioning
> from paper. Problem is that paper , reflects light, does not emit it.
>
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference is also a
> matter of biology . Not all eyes are same. Some eyes have hard time
> distinguishing elements in dark environments , others have hard time
> distinguishing elements in bright environments but excel at dark environments.
> I belong to the second case as such white themes for me are pretty much
> unacceptable for any content I have to read for a long time.
>
> My monitor as we speak is set to 1/16th of its brightness which is the minimum
> setting. During the day that sun goes in my room it goes up to 3/16 maximum.
> Above that I am forced to simply reduce the light in the room.
>
> Trying to use Moose especially that was even brighter it was even harder for me
> to the point I gave up and never used it since then.
>
> So yes there are many of us who were raised with dark themes, still use dark
> themes , will continue to use dark themes and criticise any app that does not
> support them. For me the Dark theme has been the most important improvement of
> Pharo and I am not exaggerating one tiny bit.

I largely agree with what you've said. My eyes have just deteriorated
in the opposite direction - I can't read with a dark theme (my terminals
are now dark text on a white background).

My apologies for any offence, it wasn't intended.

Cheers,
Alistair

kilon.alios

Re: Dark Mode

no offence my friend, even when i did not understand the joke. I am completely respectful of the people who find it hard to work with a dark theme and I always stated that Pharo should have both, ideally ever more themes. Of course we don't have the size of the community to do that. Ideally Pharo could offer the choice at welcome screen but to be fair to devs its super easy to change it, a couple of clicks away. Light theme definitely wont go anywhere , which one is more popular is not really my point and frankly it does not matter both of them have quite a large following and its great we have them both in image.

If we want people to love Pharo then we have to accept that each person has it own preferences and sometime its for good reason like eye strain. I am definitely a big defender of choice , after all my theme has that as a feature ;)

I suspect dark monitor may have been an energy issue. Another issue is that back then monitors were CRT and there was actual radiation that affected the eye. For example my monitor was making my eyes seeing things pink for a while till my eye rested. It may have been the green color. I remember my glasses even came with layers specialised to reflect some of the radiation and it actually helped a bit. On the other hand bright themes did emerge at the time of window 3.1 and of course we still had CRT monitors so you may be correct and it was mainly a energy consumption issue. I simply dont know, life tends to be appear simple , but alas its far from it :D

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 12:24 AM Alistair Grant <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Dimitris,

On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 08:37:56PM +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>
> I completely agree - dark mode is great for content that you want to
> look cool, but no one consumes. :-)

I actually meant this in jest, which is why it has the smiley face
afterwords.

I don't know which is more popular, light or dark themes, I'm glad that
Pharo makes it easy to automatically change to which ever one prefers -
which was what the code following this sentence was demonstrating.

> You assume wrong cause dark themes have been dominating GUIs for over 3 decades
> now. Pharo was the rare exception of using a white theme. Light themes may be
> popular but white are definitely not. The web is the last fort of bright
> themes, but the web was and still is eons behind when it comes to matters of
> UI.
>
> My first computer was black background with green fonts, black back in 80 and
> 90s was pretty much the norm. There was no white or bright themes back then. It
> was not because the monitors had any issues with displaying white.

I had my terminals set to black background with green fonts up to last
year since that is what I was used to from my Dick Smith System 80
(TRS-80 clone). :-)

Going slightly off topic: I suspect terminals used a dark theme by
default because a light theme would burn out the CRT. If I remember
correctly, DEC VT-220's had a light theme (which I didn't use).

> It was actually the web that made white a thing. Probably inexperienced web
> coders (there were no web devs back then ) thought it made sense transitioning
> from paper. Problem is that paper , reflects light, does not emit it.
>
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference is also a
> matter of biology . Not all eyes are same. Some eyes have hard time
> distinguishing elements in dark environments , others have hard time
> distinguishing elements in bright environments but excel at dark environments.
> I belong to the second case as such white themes for me are pretty much
> unacceptable for any content I have to read for a long time.
>
> My monitor as we speak is set to 1/16th of its brightness which is the minimum
> setting. During the day that sun goes in my room it goes up to 3/16 maximum.
> Above that I am forced to simply reduce the light in the room.
>
> Trying to use Moose especially that was even brighter it was even harder for me
> to the point I gave up and never used it since then.
>
> So yes there are many of us who were raised with dark themes, still use dark
> themes , will continue to use dark themes and criticise any app that does not
> support them. For me the Dark theme has been the most important improvement of
> Pharo and I am not exaggerating one tiny bit.

I largely agree with what you've said. My eyes have just deteriorated
in the opposite direction - I can't read with a dark theme (my terminals
are now dark text on a white background).

My apologies for any offence, it wasn't intended.

Cheers,
Alistair

Peter Kenny

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by Stephan Eggermont-3

I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

kilon.alios

Re: Dark Mode

Also most don't know this but light themes of Pharo were in part hard coded. Esteban in order to create the dark theme which is based on the most popular dark theme ( if my memory serves correctly) , Darcula , he had to remove all this nasty code. He essentially made it possible for Pharo to have themes without worrying about hard coded colors. So if you ever want to make the light theme even lighter you have the dark theme to thank for making it easier for you.

Quite an irony , would not agree ?

If the doctors say your eye sight is great , he knows what he is talking about.

Black foreground against dark grey background sound like a bug. Care to share a screenshot ?

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 00:51, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

Peter Kenny

Re: Dark Mode

Dimitris

Screenshot attached. Look particularly at the text in the right-hand page of the playground. Also the control buttons of the playground window – the buttons go black when the window gets focus. I opened the ‘About’ window so you can see which version I have – not yet Pharo 6.1, but not very out of date.

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dimitris Chloupis
Sent: 27 August 2017 23:10
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 00:51, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

PharoScreenshot.png (279K) Download Attachment

Peter Kenny

Re: Dark Mode

Dimitris

Update – there is a sort of bug in the screenshot, which I have caused. I opened the page with my usual light theme, then changed themes. This updated the colour of the background, but not the text in the foreground. If I open the same playground display with the dark theme, the text is white and shows up OK. But I still don’t like it.

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of PBKResearch
Sent: 27 August 2017 23:48
To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

Dimitris

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dimitris Chloupis
Sent: 27 August 2017 23:10
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 00:51, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

philippeback

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by kilon.alios

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 12:10 AM, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:

Also most don't know this but light themes of Pharo were in part hard coded. Esteban in order to create the dark theme which is based on the most popular dark theme ( if my memory serves correctly) , Darcula , he had to remove all this nasty code. He essentially made it possible for Pharo to have themes without worrying about hard coded colors. So if you ever want to make the light theme even lighter you have the dark theme to thank for making it easier for you.

Quite an irony , would not agree ?

If the doctors say your eye sight is great , he knows what he is talking about.

Black foreground against dark grey background sound like a bug. Care to share a screenshot ?
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 00:51, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Eye issues as well. Retinal detachment in both, and cataract on the right one. Loads of floaters.

Light mode kills them.

Dark theme : can code for hours without any trouble.

At the office I am at now 90% of coders are using dark themes.

Indeed the windows buttons are annoying, I have my own little hack to make them better.

When a control bugs you, bring a halo and try to reverse the form, usually makes things readable.

Phil

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

philippeback

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by Peter Kenny

This is the sublimish theme in a 5.0, and the reversed controls.

Phil

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 12:48 AM, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dimitris

Screenshot attached. Look particularly at the text in the right-hand page of the playground. Also the control buttons of the playground window – the buttons go black when the window gets focus. I opened the ‘About’ window so you can see which version I have – not yet Pharo 6.1, but not very out of date.

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dimitris Chloupis
Sent: 27 August 2017 23:10
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

Also most don't know this but light themes of Pharo were in part hard coded. Esteban in order to create the dark theme which is based on the most popular dark theme ( if my memory serves correctly) , Darcula , he had to remove all this nasty code. He essentially made it possible for Pharo to have themes without worrying about hard coded colors. So if you ever want to make the light theme even lighter you have the dark theme to thank for making it easier for you.

Quite an irony , would not agree ?

If the doctors say your eye sight is great , he knows what he is talking about.

Black foreground against dark grey background sound like a bug. Care to share a screenshot ?
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 00:51, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan

kilon.alios

Re: Dark Mode

In reply to this post by Peter Kenny

Yeah this is a known bug at least to me when I test my blue theme. I think however that it was fixed to an extend. Anyway closing and opening the window will update the colors so its not a serious bug. Once the theme is changed you should experience no issues.

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:09 AM PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dimitris

Update – there is a sort of bug in the screenshot, which I have caused. I opened the page with my usual light theme, then changed themes. This updated the colour of the background, but not the text in the foreground. If I open the same playground display with the dark theme, the text is white and shows up OK. But I still don’t like it.

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of PBKResearch
Sent: 27 August 2017 23:48

To: 'Any question about pharo is welcome' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

Dimitris

Screenshot attached. Look particularly at the text in the right-hand page of the playground. Also the control buttons of the playground window – the buttons go black when the window gets focus. I opened the ‘About’ window so you can see which version I have – not yet Pharo 6.1, but not very out of date.

Peter Kenny

From: Pharo-users [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dimitris Chloupis
Sent: 27 August 2017 23:10
To: Any question about pharo is welcome <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

Also most don't know this but light themes of Pharo were in part hard coded. Esteban in order to create the dark theme which is based on the most popular dark theme ( if my memory serves correctly) , Darcula , he had to remove all this nasty code. He essentially made it possible for Pharo to have themes without worrying about hard coded colors. So if you ever want to make the light theme even lighter you have the dark theme to thank for making it easier for you.

Quite an irony , would not agree ?

If the doctors say your eye sight is great , he knows what he is talking about.

Black foreground against dark grey background sound like a bug. Care to share a screenshot ?
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 00:51, PBKResearch <[hidden email]> wrote:
I agree with Dimitris - it is all a matter of preference - not all eyes are the same. For myself, I find the default dark theme in Pharo very uncomfortable. On my system, some elements have a black foreground on a dark grey background, which is almost impossible to see. This is always true of the maximise/minimise/close buttons, but sometimes also of text fields in a playground. Whenever I download a new image, I immediately switch to the Watery theme, with light background and nice coloured buttons on the windows.

Of course, my eyes may not be typical. I am now aged 84, and I have had cataract operations on both eyes. My sight is actually quite good - my optometrist confirms that I am legal to drive without spectacles - but my adverse reaction to dark mode is strong and immediate.

Just my 2p worth

Peter Kenny

-----Original Message-----
From: Pharo-users [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of stephan
Sent: 27 August 2017 21:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Dark Mode

On 27-08-17 22:37, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> White or dark is a matter of preference. But the matter of preference
> is also a matter of biology . Not all eyes are same.

The research is pretty clear: a large majority of developers does better with light themes. I have been sufficiently clear on the choice to make
Pharo6 theme dark default

Stephan