Deceptive focus cue in 4.6 browsers

Try this:

- Disable the "Filterable Lists" preference.
- Open a new Browser.
- Choose any class
- Select any message category

You get a method template in the text pane. It is highlighted, which
makes you think (and it was the behavior so far) that you can type right
away your method code.

But it is not the case. The message category list still has focus;
moreover you need to click inside the code editor to give it focus,
which deselect the method template.

Annoying.


Stef

Hi Stef,

a selection in a text field does only slightly indicate keyboard focus (i.e. the darkness of the selection color). I assume that you disabled the preference "mouseOverForKeyboardFocus" ? In that case, I would rather enable "Indicate Keyboard Focus" so that you see were the current keyboard focus is. There will be a rectangle around the morph.

As for your example: It is the correct behavior that the message category list still has the keyboard focus because you clicked on a category in that list. However, you are right that clicking into the text pane now removes the selection and thus the "new method template" cannot easily be removed.

We will think of something. :) Ideas are welcome. I think that the selection of a text morph that does not have keyboard focus should be much lighter instead of being darker.

Best,
Marcel

Hey Stef,

I hopefully could make the focus more clear: http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-Morphic-mt-983-mcz-td4827397.html#a4827398

Still, the selection is gone once you click for getting focus in the text morph.

Best,
Marcel

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Stéphane Rollandin
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Try this:
>
> - Disable the "Filterable Lists" preference.

It seems like the above has nothing to do with the rest of this note..?

Totally agree.  And, I don't mean to perpetuate a pointless discussion
but this is simply the evil of click-for-focus for *every* scenario,
not just this scenario.  It forces the user to "interact" widgets in
ways they don't want to.

In the abstract, the easiest way to switch focus when
mouseOverForKeyboardFocus is disabled is:

   Gesture 1:  Look for the "least-disruptive" spot somewhere within
the widget you want to have keyboard focus (good luck!).
   Gesture 2:  Click that spot.
   Gesture 3:  If that spot caused an undesirable interaction with the
widget, click your way out of it, then go to step 4.
   Gesture 4:  Click the spot within the widget where you actually
want keyboard focus.

So, in your concrete example, the "least disruptive" way might be to:

 - Open a new Browser.
 - Choose any class
 - Select any message category
 - Click somewhere in the method template.
 - Click  somewhere in the method template once more, but below the
bottom of the text so that it will all be selected.  Voila!

When I came into Squeak more than a decade ago, I had all the habits
of a Windows user (e.g., click-for-focus).  Over time, I started
playing with the available preferences and learned why someone thought
they were a good idea -- because they are...   :)

> As for your example: It is the correct behavior that the message category
> list still has the keyboard focus because you clicked on a category in that
> list.

It may be the correct behavior, but I'm very much used to the old one :)

At now it is really a PITA for me, and I will hack it away in my own
images whatever happen in the trunk. Maybe a preference would make sense
(I don't mind having a lot of preferences: I think this is the way to go
when there are so many little but important workflow points where people
disagree).

Best,

Stef

>> Try this:
>>
>> - Disable the "Filterable Lists" preference.
>
> It seems like the above has nothing to do with the rest of this note..?

I believe you are right :)

Stef

> So, in your concrete example, the "least disruptive" way might be to:
>
>   - Open a new Browser.
>   - Choose any class
>   - Select any message category
>   - Click somewhere in the method template.
>   - Click  somewhere in the method template once more, but below the
> bottom of the text so that it will all be selected.  Voila!

Yes, that's what I do of course. But then, the method template should
not be highlighted in the first place. That's the "deceptive" part.

Stef

> I'll link this just for fun :-)
> Getting a GUI right is really hard
>
> https://xkcd.com/1172/
>
> Karl

Wait, you're right: I might get Emacs to sort this out for me !

Stef

Hi Stef,

it does *not* used to be the old one. I just tried it in Squeak 4.5, 4.4, 3.9, and 2.8. Always, there is a selection of the method template visible, but you *cannot* just start typing without repositioning the mouse cursor and maybe clicking into the code pane.

Maybe you already had some extensions in your working image? :-)

Best,
Marcel

> Hi Stef,
>
> it does *not* used to be the old one. I just tried it in Squeak 4.5, 4.4,
> 3.9, and 2.8. Always, there is a selection of the method template visible,
> but you *cannot* just start typing without repositioning the mouse cursor

Yes.

> and maybe clicking into the code pane.

No.

I just tried in a 4.6, update 13700. There you still do not need to
click, only reposition the mouse cursor. And when you start typing, the
selected template disappears all right.

It would be nice to get that back, maybe with a preference.


Stef

Hi Stef,

this was due to an inconsistent honoring of the "mouseOverForKeyboardFocus" preference. What about turning on this preference in your image?

Best,
Marcel

> this was due to an inconsistent honoring of the "mouseOverForKeyboardFocus"

I understand.

The trouble is the current inconsistency: the method template being
selected, while there is no way one can make sense of this selection
when mouseOverForKeyboardFocus is off.

So we should either:

- not select the template in the first place (at least when
mouseOverForKeyboardFocus is off)

- or have the selection stay active when we click to get focus

- or get rid of the template altogether

- (other options ?)

But to me the current state of affair is "deceptive". That's my whole
point from the beginning.


Stef