Dev toolbar in IE
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Dev toolbar in IE
 
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Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the screen
anymore in IE? Cheers, -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
ietoolbar.jpg (20K) |
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> Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of > the screen anymore in IE? > > Cheers, > > -Boris Did it ever? I don't recall it ever being on the bottom in IE. Ramon Leon http://onsmalltalk.com _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway?
Philippe 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the screen > anymore in IE? > > Cheers, > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > attachments. > > Thank you. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you ignore
it? > From: Philippe Marschall > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > Philippe > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the screen > > anymore in IE? > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Boris > > > > -- > > +1.604.689.0322 > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > [hidden email] > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > attachments. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Yeah, for users sure. But for web developers? Seriously?
2006/10/6, Ron Teitelbaum <[hidden email]>: > I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you ignore > it? > > > From: Philippe Marschall > > > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > > > Philippe > > > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the screen > > > anymore in IE? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > -- > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > attachments. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Dev toolbar in IE
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In reply to this post by Ron Teitelbaum
This is in development only though, and I tend to side with Philippe, no
serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, where the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron Teitelbaum Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:13 PM To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you ignore it? > From: Philippe Marschall > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > Philippe > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the screen > > anymore in IE? > > > > Cheers, > > > > -Boris > > > > -- > > +1.604.689.0322 > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > [hidden email] > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > attachments. > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Hi Boris!
I see the browser as the end product for testing. I'm not even to the point yet of testing code on other browsers, but I do stay away from any code that says it may be an issue and especially anything that may be in issue for IE. (I was planning on using AJAX until I saw that IE 6.0 may not support it if active x is turned off [which happens frequently]) So my question: Why would it matter which browser is used for development? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:30 PM > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion. > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > This is in development only though, and I tend to side with Philippe, no > serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, where > the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > attachments. > > Thank you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron > Teitelbaum > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:13 PM > To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you > ignore > it? > > > From: Philippe Marschall > > > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > > > Philippe > > > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the > screen > > > anymore in IE? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > -- > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > attachments. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Philippe Marschall
Besides my over use of the ! which may have added emphasis that I didn't
really intend, I'd be interested. What benefits are there to developers? Seriously. Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] [mailto:seaside- > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Philippe Marschall > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:29 PM > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion. > Subject: Re: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > Yeah, for users sure. But for web developers? Seriously? > > > 2006/10/6, Ron Teitelbaum <[hidden email]>: > > I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you > ignore > > it? > > > > > From: Philippe Marschall > > > > > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the > screen > > > > anymore in IE? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > > > -- > > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Seaside mailing list > > > > [hidden email] > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Dev toolbar in IE
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In reply to this post by Ron Teitelbaum
Here are few reasons why I personally find Firefox as a best tool for
development (that's not to say some of these tools don't exist for IE though), - TABS! :) - Less quirks in treating Web Standards compliant XHTML (Strict) and CSS - DOM inspector - JavaScript console - JavaScript debugger - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ - Web Developer toolbar - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ Our designer tests the visual aspects against the variety of browsers before delivering the markup and CSS, I test everything else on various versions of IE, Firefox and Opera, but I never use IE in the normal course of development. To sum it up, just because there's no reliable way to get the toolbar to stick to the bottom of the screen in IE, don't discount Seaside as 'incapable', this one is really IE's fault. Hope this helps, -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Teitelbaum [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:55 PM To: Boris Popov; 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE Hi Boris! I see the browser as the end product for testing. I'm not even to the point yet of testing code on other browsers, but I do stay away from any code that says it may be an issue and especially anything that may be in issue for IE. (I was planning on using AJAX until I saw that IE 6.0 may not support it if active x is turned off [which happens frequently]) So my question: Why would it matter which browser is used for development? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:30 PM > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion. > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > This is in development only though, and I tend to side with Philippe, no > serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, where > the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > attachments. > > Thank you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron > Teitelbaum > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:13 PM > To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you > ignore > it? > > > From: Philippe Marschall > > > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > > > Philippe > > > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the > screen > > > anymore in IE? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > -- > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > attachments. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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Boris Popov wrote:
> Here are few reasons why I personally find Firefox as a best tool for > development (that's not to say some of these tools don't exist for IE > though), > > - TABS! :) > - Less quirks in treating Web Standards compliant XHTML (Strict) and CSS > - DOM inspector > - JavaScript console > - JavaScript debugger > - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ > - Web Developer toolbar > - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ Boris did a pretty good job of summing it up.. Ideally, if you find that you write code that works for IE, in my limited experience, you may find that your code does NOT work for the standards-compliant browsers unless you're very diligent.. I develop mostly against Safari (on Mac's) and test w/ Firefox and lastly pester IE when needed. I'll have to keep an eye out for who uses what, but with what I've seen so far with my existing PHP based application (soon to be replaced hopefully), it's primarily being used by Safari, IE6, and Firefox users.. I'm glad I don't see many IE5 users as that browser is REALLY old and has even more problems than IE6 does. _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
Ok I'll give it a try and see. Thanks for the answer.
The - Less quirks seems odd. Are you saying that because other browsers are strict they are more likely to work in IE, or that IE has quirks that do not show up on Firefox? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:03 PM > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion. > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > Here are few reasons why I personally find Firefox as a best tool for > development (that's not to say some of these tools don't exist for IE > though), > > - TABS! :) > - Less quirks in treating Web Standards compliant XHTML (Strict) and CSS > - DOM inspector > - JavaScript console > - JavaScript debugger > - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ > - Web Developer toolbar > - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ > > Our designer tests the visual aspects against the variety of browsers > before delivering the markup and CSS, I test everything else on various > versions of IE, Firefox and Opera, but I never use IE in the normal > course of development. > > To sum it up, just because there's no reliable way to get the toolbar to > stick to the bottom of the screen in IE, don't discount Seaside as > 'incapable', this one is really IE's fault. > > Hope this helps, > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > attachments. > > Thank you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Teitelbaum [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:55 PM > To: Boris Popov; 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion.' > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > Hi Boris! > > I see the browser as the end product for testing. I'm not even to the > point > yet of testing code on other browsers, but I do stay away from any code > that > says it may be an issue and especially anything that may be in issue for > IE. > (I was planning on using AJAX until I saw that IE 6.0 may not support it > if > active x is turned off [which happens frequently]) So my question: Why > would it matter which browser is used for development? > > Ron > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:30 PM > > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - > general > > discussion. > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > > > This is in development only though, and I tend to side with Philippe, > no > > serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, > where > > the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) > > > > -Boris > > > > -- > > +1.604.689.0322 > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > [hidden email] > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > attachments. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron > > Teitelbaum > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:13 PM > > To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > > > I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you > > ignore > > it? > > > > > From: Philippe Marschall > > > > > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the > > screen > > > > anymore in IE? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > > > -- > > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that > is > > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Seaside mailing list > > > > [hidden email] > > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Dev toolbar in IE
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Firefox is more compliant with Web Standards than IE6 in Strict mode. As
I understand, IE7 goes a long way towards treating them better, but as it stands if you want to develop with Web Standards in mind, your best bet is Firefox. Once you get things working there, you then apply IE6 fixes for anything that breaks (hence ie6win.css via @import url("ie6win.css"); in our application). Same goes for JavaScript. I find it easier to develop/debug JavaScript in Firefox where tools for that are superior, then test in IE and go back and fix issues in Firefox until everything works as expected. Opera is much more in line with Firefox, so usually things just work there. Cheers, -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Ron Teitelbaum [mailto:[hidden email]] Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 1:08 PM To: Boris Popov; 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE Ok I'll give it a try and see. Thanks for the answer. The - Less quirks seems odd. Are you saying that because other browsers are strict they are more likely to work in IE, or that IE has quirks that do not show up on Firefox? Ron > -----Original Message----- > From: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:03 PM > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion. > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > Here are few reasons why I personally find Firefox as a best tool for > development (that's not to say some of these tools don't exist for IE > though), > > - TABS! :) > - Less quirks in treating Web Standards compliant XHTML (Strict) and CSS > - DOM inspector > - JavaScript console > - JavaScript debugger > - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ > - Web Developer toolbar > - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ > > Our designer tests the visual aspects against the variety of browsers > before delivering the markup and CSS, I test everything else on various > versions of IE, Firefox and Opera, but I never use IE in the normal > course of development. > > To sum it up, just because there's no reliable way to get the toolbar to > stick to the bottom of the screen in IE, don't discount Seaside as > 'incapable', this one is really IE's fault. > > Hope this helps, > > -Boris > > -- > +1.604.689.0322 > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > [hidden email] > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > attachments. > > Thank you. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Teitelbaum [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:55 PM > To: Boris Popov; 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general > discussion.' > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > Hi Boris! > > I see the browser as the end product for testing. I'm not even to the > point > yet of testing code on other browsers, but I do stay away from any > that > says it may be an issue and especially anything that may be in issue for > IE. > (I was planning on using AJAX until I saw that IE 6.0 may not support it > if > active x is turned off [which happens frequently]) So my question: Why > would it matter which browser is used for development? > > Ron > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Boris Popov [mailto:[hidden email]] > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:30 PM > > To: [hidden email]; The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - > general > > discussion. > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > > > This is in development only though, and I tend to side with > no > > serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, > where > > the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) > > > > -Boris > > > > -- > > +1.604.689.0322 > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > [hidden email] > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > attachments. > > > > Thank you. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [hidden email] > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ron > > Teitelbaum > > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:13 PM > > To: 'The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion.' > > Subject: RE: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE > > > > I don't get this! Since IE is still > 50% of the market how can you > > ignore > > it? > > > > > From: Philippe Marschall > > > > > > It never did. But then, which web dev uses IE anyway? > > > > > > Philippe > > > > > > 2006/10/6, Boris Popov <[hidden email]>: > > > > Is it just me or the toolbar doesn't stick to the bottom of the > > screen > > > > anymore in IE? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > -Boris > > > > > > > > -- > > > > +1.604.689.0322 > > > > DeepCove Labs Ltd. > > > > 4th floor 595 Howe Street > > > > Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 > > > > > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > > > > > > > > This email is intended only for the persons named in the message > > > > header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that > is > > > > private and confidential. If you have received it in error, > > > > notify the sender and delete the entire message including any > > > > attachments. > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Seaside mailing list > > > > [hidden email] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Seaside mailing list > > > [hidden email] > > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Seaside mailing list > > [hidden email] > > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Rick Flower
Rick Flower writes:
> Boris did a pretty good job of summing it up.. Ideally, if you find that > you write code that works for IE, in my limited experience, you may find > that your code does NOT work for the standards-compliant browsers unless > you're very diligent.. I develop mostly against Safari (on Mac's) and > test w/ Firefox and lastly pester IE when needed. I'll have to keep an > eye out for who uses what, but with what I've seen so far with my > existing PHP based application (soon to be replaced hopefully), it's > primarily being used by Safari, IE6, and Firefox users.. I'm glad I > don't see many IE5 users as that browser is REALLY old and has even more > problems than IE6 does. Any chance you could write something up about migrating from PHP to Seaside and why? Sounds like a potentually great story for marketing. Bryce _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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[hidden email] wrote:
> Any chance you could write something up about migrating from PHP to > Seaside and why? Sounds like a potentually great story for marketing. I think I've mentioned it here from time to time before, but when I get a chance, I'll have to do that.. After all, it was a blog posting that I was reading (from a Ruby-on-Rails (RoR) user) that mentioned Seaside and its benefits and got me interested and then hooked.. (8-> _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
Boris Popov wrote:
> Firefox is more compliant with Web Standards than IE6 in Strict mode. As > I understand, IE7 goes a long way towards treating them better, but as > it stands if you want to develop with Web Standards in mind, your best > bet is Firefox. Once you get things working there, you then apply IE6 > fixes for anything that breaks (hence ie6win.css via @import > url("ie6win.css"); in our application). > Really? I've been hearing that Opera v9 is better than firefox for standards compliance. > Same goes for JavaScript. I find it easier to develop/debug JavaScript > in Firefox where tools for that are superior, then test in IE and go > back and fix issues in Firefox until everything works as expected. Opera > is much more in line with Firefox, so usually things just work there. > > Cheers, > > -Boris > > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
RE: Dev toolbar in IE
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I don't know, that was just my impression, maybe it is.
Cheers! -Boris -- +1.604.689.0322 DeepCove Labs Ltd. 4th floor 595 Howe Street Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5 [hidden email] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This email is intended only for the persons named in the message header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender and delete the entire message including any attachments. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brad Fuller Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 2:54 PM To: The Squeak Enterprise Aubergines Server - general discussion. Subject: Re: [Seaside] Dev toolbar in IE Boris Popov wrote: > Firefox is more compliant with Web Standards than IE6 in Strict mode. As > I understand, IE7 goes a long way towards treating them better, but as > it stands if you want to develop with Web Standards in mind, your best > bet is Firefox. Once you get things working there, you then apply IE6 > fixes for anything that breaks (hence ie6win.css via @import > url("ie6win.css"); in our application). > Really? I've been hearing that Opera v9 is better than firefox for standards compliance. > Same goes for JavaScript. I find it easier to develop/debug JavaScript > in Firefox where tools for that are superior, then test in IE and go > back and fix issues in Firefox until everything works as expected. Opera > is much more in line with Firefox, so usually things just work there. > > Cheers, > > -Boris > > \ _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Rick Flower
I saw this recently http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
it looks like IE5 is at 4% Ron > From: Rick Flower > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 4:08 PM > > Boris Popov wrote: > > Here are few reasons why I personally find Firefox as a best tool for > > development (that's not to say some of these tools don't exist for IE > > though), > > > > - TABS! :) > > - Less quirks in treating Web Standards compliant XHTML (Strict) and CSS > > - DOM inspector > > - JavaScript console > > - JavaScript debugger > > - http://www.mozilla.org/projects/venkman/ > > - Web Developer toolbar > > - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/ > > Boris did a pretty good job of summing it up.. Ideally, if you find that > you write code that works for IE, in my limited experience, you may find > that your code does NOT work for the standards-compliant browsers unless > you're very diligent.. I develop mostly against Safari (on Mac's) and > test w/ Firefox and lastly pester IE when needed. I'll have to keep an > eye out for who uses what, but with what I've seen so far with my > existing PHP based application (soon to be replaced hopefully), it's > primarily being used by Safari, IE6, and Firefox users.. I'm glad I > don't see many IE5 users as that browser is REALLY old and has even more > problems than IE6 does. > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Rick Flower
Il giorno ven, 06/10/2006 alle 14.02 -0700, Rick Flower ha scritto:
> [hidden email] wrote: > > > Any chance you could write something up about migrating from PHP to > > Seaside and why? Sounds like a potentually great story for marketing. > > I think I've mentioned it here from time to time before, but when I get > a chance, I'll have to do that.. After all, it was a blog posting that I > was reading (from a Ruby-on-Rails (RoR) user) that mentioned Seaside and > its benefits and got me interested and then hooked.. (8-> I'd be interested in publishing such an article on The Weekly Squeak blog, and submit it to various news sites (such as Digg or reddit). Giovanni _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)
yes and testing is boring !!! because CSS dosn't respond the same in ie ...
do you know if there are advices, workaround, things to do so as to have a compatible design in ie and in all the other browser that respect W3C norms. The position relative of div is not working well for instance in ie. It seems it positions it outside of the containing div. so if someone has a pointer that explain how to keep css design compatible with all browser, I'll apreciate > This is in development only though, and I tend to side with Philippe, no > serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, where > the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) > > -Boris > > Thanks Cédrick _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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There are whole websites dedicated to this topic. I took the easy way
out: I make CSS's that only work on IE, and CSS's that only work for Mozzilla, and CSS's for everyone else and sniff the client to decide what they get. And before you decide I am doing tons of work; everything but the mozilla is pretty basic and has an "upgrade to mozzilla" link on it. :) Cédrick Béler wrote: > yes and testing is boring !!! because CSS dosn't respond the same in > ie ... > > do you know if there are advices, workaround, things to do so as to > have a compatible design in ie and in all the other browser that > respect W3C norms. The position relative of div is not working well > for instance in ie. It seems it positions it outside of the containing > div. > > so if someone has a pointer that explain how to keep css design > compatible with all browser, I'll apreciate >> This is in development only though, and I tend to side with Philippe, no >> serious web developer is using IE for anything other than testing, where >> the toolbar is disabled anyhow :) >> >> -Boris >> >> > Thanks > > Cédrick > _______________________________________________ > Seaside mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside > _______________________________________________ Seaside mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside |
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