Differences between squeak and Dolphin

Le Mardi 21 Mars 2006 12:44, Lord ZealoN a écrit :
> I downloaded Dolphin, and looks very nice.
>
> What important differences exists between squeak and Dolphin?

Being more a Visualworks user than a pure adept of squeak, i might be more
neutral.

Dolphin is a vendor Smalltalk,
Squeak is free.
You might check your licence.

Dolphin runs on PC under windows system,
Squeak runs on a wide range of computers.

Syntax is mostly the same, except details like squeak extension {} and Dolphin
extension ##().

Dolphin class library rely more heavily on microsoft windows OS: it is bound
to several native DLL, first of all for handling native windows and rendering
graphics.
Squeak has its own primitives for rendering graphics and Smalltalk code for
handling windows (move resize collapse etc...). It is mostly OS independant.

To me, external DLL dependency is the main difference in spirit.
Maybe you find Dolphin user interface more familiar for that reason.
Maybe you can find other advantages in being able to use microsoft stuff
(hardcopy etc...). This is not in the spirit of Squeak, though possible to
do. Squeak has to be free, and then OS-vendor neutral.
Probably for the same reason, Dolphin is smaller than Squeak, and maybe easier
to learn. But also more limited.
Dolphin reminds me the ancient Smalltalk/V from Digitalk, i learned Smalltalk
with.

But squeak has a larger user community to which you can easily contribute, and
definitely is a much more creative place.

Sure the squeakers can give you a long list of interesting projects you can
already benefit by.

In short, Dolphin is one of today's good windows-OS-bound Smalltalk
implementation. You can benefit from this, but then place yourself in slavery
of Microsof will.
Squeak is already quite good today, and in my opinion the best bet on future.

It depends what you intend to do with Smalltalk. But it is mostly a political
choice. If you like free code and feel yourself a member of this community,
definitely choose Squeak. But do have a deeper look in Dolphin, it's always
interesting.

Afterall, i was not that neutral. Maybe you wait more technical discussion ?

Nicolas

I saw impressive demoes of Dolphin were you could package your  
application in 256 k small library packages (starting around 256k).
So if you business is real with end user on PC, dolphin is much  
better than VW and Squeak since it supports native
widgets on Windows and the code is cool.

The User interface builder is really nice: once a friend of mine told  
me that if he would go in VB small app
he would use dolphin. I think that dolphin is a really good smalltalk  
that I cannot use since I'm on mac :(

Stef

On 21 mars 06, at 12:44, Lord ZealoN wrote:

> I downloaded Dolphin, and looks very nice.
>
> What important differences exists between squeak and Dolphin?
>

Yes, but i want "give" my app's to other OS's too. Then, Dolphin is not an option, and Squeak, looks good for this

stéphane ducasse puso en su mail :

> I think that dolphin is a really good smalltalk
> that I cannot use since I'm on mac :(
Why not Stef ?

I was able to use the Dolphin what comes in some ESUG CD a while ago using
the old good Virtual PC emulator.

I don't have a Mac Intel, but my Apple friends told me what I could run any
regular PC soft with it.

And exist the good Ambrai Smalltalk for Mac, in the Dolphin mood.



       
       
               
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2006/3/22, stéphane ducasse <[hidden email]>:
> I saw impressive demoes of Dolphin were you could package your
> application in 256 k small library packages (starting around 256k).
> So if you business is real with end user on PC, dolphin is much
> better than VW and Squeak since it supports native
> widgets on Windows and the code is cool.

Well, the ToGo exe now are suffering of the lack of VC++ runtime (two
dlls) that aren't anymore as default on Windows XP, then must be
packaged with the Dolphin exe ToGo installer, but in any case, are yet
very tiny sizes.

I've packaged recently my first commercial Dolphin project in an
installer of around 1MB and the main exe is around 860KB
(decompressed).

Cheers.
gsa.

I think i will give a opportunity to squeak at the moment. Some day i will try other like VW or Dolphin.

I only need develop in smalltalk and a guibuilder for squeak (tweak? but this would be other mail) for feel good working. At the moment i will do tests, nothing "professional".

Thanks for your comments. I only wanted know more about smalltalk, i'm learning it and i needed this comments to understand it better.

On Mar 22, 2006, at 4:46 AM, Lic. Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

This is true, after a fashion.  The other day someone managed to get  
Windows XP running on an Intel  Mac, but there is a big difference  
between "running" and "useable" :-)

Your best bet, at the moment, is still Virtual PC.  The VPC team is  
working very hard to ensure that Virtual PC runs like a speed demon  
on an Intel machine but they don't have anything out yet.

Scott

Scott Thompson puso en su mail :

> This is true, after a fashion.  The other day someone managed to get
> Windows XP running on an Intel  Mac, but there is a big difference
> between "running" and "useable" :-)
>
> Your best bet, at the moment, is still Virtual PC.  The VPC team is
> working very hard to ensure that Virtual PC runs like a speed demon
> on an Intel machine but they don't have anything out yet.
>
> Scott
Thanks for tip.
Sometimes is good do not have enough money !!!



       
       
               
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On 22 mars 06, at 11:46, Lic. Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:

> stéphane ducasse puso en su mail :
>
>> I think that dolphin is a really good smalltalk
>> that I cannot use since I'm on mac :(
> Why not Stef ?
>
> I was able to use the Dolphin what comes in some ESUG CD a while  
> ago using
> the old good Virtual PC emulator.

Because I do not want that people that use my app have to run it too.

>
> I don't have a Mac Intel, but my Apple friends told me what I could  
> run any
> regular PC soft with it.
>
> And exist the good Ambrai Smalltalk for Mac, in the Dolphin mood.

But if a person wants to seriously develop software it should get  
more warranty
than a beta.

Stef