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[Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

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marcel.taeumel

[Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Hi, there.

In the last board meeting, we agreed to finally do something about the current state of the install scripts and visible menu entries for both Metacello and the Git Browser. There have been several discussions on this list.

The issues I see at the moment are:

- Metacello has no graphical tool window but suggests that it has being in the Tools menu

- Git Browser, if not installed, does not reveal "click to install) in the Tools Menu

- a click on "Git Browser" will always update it (and Metacello?) before starting it, which is just unnecessary

So, I am in favor of:

- Removing "Metacello" entry from the Tools menu

- Making the "Git Browser" install state more clear (via inbox Morphic-jr.1485)

- On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed

- Maybe, for manual (or administrative) updates, add "Installer ensureRecentMetacello" and "Installer installGitInfrastructure" back to the Do menu

- revert #installGitInfrastructure to again do #ensureRecentMetacello

I still like the MetacelloStub as it is now. :-)

Best,

Marcel

Christoph Thiede

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

> - On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed

As someone who often plays in Squeak using a metered connection, I would generally prefer to be asked whether any package should be installed, *before* anything is downloaded - what I would not really expect as this point. Just one idea :)

Best,

Christoph

Von: Squeak-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. August 2019 08:53:59
An: John Pfersich via Squeak-dev
Betreff: [squeak-dev] [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Hi, there.

The issues I see at the moment are:

- Metacello has no graphical tool window but suggests that it has being in the Tools menu

- Git Browser, if not installed, does not reveal "click to install) in the Tools Menu

- a click on "Git Browser" will always update it (and Metacello?) before starting it, which is just unnecessary

So, I am in favor of:

- Removing "Metacello" entry from the Tools menu

- Making the "Git Browser" install state more clear (via inbox Morphic-jr.1485)

- On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed

- Maybe, for manual (or administrative) updates, add "Installer ensureRecentMetacello" and "Installer installGitInfrastructure" back to the Do menu

- revert #installGitInfrastructure to again do #ensureRecentMetacello

I still like the MetacelloStub as it is now. :-)

Best,

Marcel

Carpe Squeak!

Jakob Reschke

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Am Mi., 14. Aug. 2019 um 09:06 Uhr schrieb Thiede, Christoph <[hidden email]>:

> - On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed

As someone who often plays in Squeak using a metered connection, I would generally prefer to be asked whether any package should be installed, *before* anything is downloaded - what I would not really expect as this point. Just one idea :)

Sounds like a preference feature for the various installer facilities, such as Installer, Metacello, SqueakMap (if it has its own and does not only use the others). Should Gofer and Monticello be included in that list? I think not because they are somewhat lower-level.

Moreover, if the triggered action specifically indicates (in the label, not in the tool tip) to update or install something, I would not want another confirmation question after I clicked on it. Would you Christoph?

An abort mechanism during installations with a different UI than Ctrl+. might also be nice for the user experience.

If we did this in the code of the menu items, instead of the installer facilities, we would have to it again for the next installing menu items or other installing opportunities.

image.png (64K) Download Attachment

Jakob Reschke

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

In reply to this post by marcel.taeumel

Am Mi., 14. Aug. 2019 um 08:54 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]>:

- Removing "Metacello" entry from the Tools menu
- Making the "Git Browser" install state more clear (via inbox Morphic-jr.1485)
- On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed

- Maybe, for manual (or administrative) updates, add "Installer ensureRecentMetacello" and "Installer installGitInfrastructure" back to the Do menu

+1 for Metacello, -1 for Git stuff there because the Git browser has its own button to make it update itself:

Also there is currently no difference between installing the Git browser and installing the rest of the infrastructure. As I understand it the only difference between the Do menu item and the "Install Git browser..." menu item in Tools would be that the latter opens the Git browser at the end and the former does not.

- revert #installGitInfrastructure to again do #ensureRecentMetacello

Coming back from the methods to the GUI: one should not first have to click the Metacello button to make the "Install Git browser..." button work.

image.png (64K) Download Attachment

Christoph Thiede

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

In reply to this post by Jakob Reschke

@Jakob: You're right, there are two different aspects:

> Sounds like a preference feature for the various installer facilities, such as Installer, Metacello, SqueakMap (if it has its own and does not only use the others). Should Gofer and Monticello be included in that list? I think not because they are somewhat lower-level.

This would be definitively helpful for me. If possible, these services could even check the required byte size and compare it with a user-defined treshold to decide whether to ask :) So checking for updates would not necessary require user interaction, but downloading these updates would.

> Moreover, if the triggered action specifically indicates (in the label, not in the tool tip) to update or install something, I would not want another confirmation question after I clicked on it. Would you Christoph?

If the label contains the information, I would not see any advantages of another confirmation message. But as installing something would be a quite rare use case, I don't think it really matters.

Best,

Christoph

Von: Squeak-dev <[hidden email]> im Auftrag von Jakob Reschke <[hidden email]>
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. August 2019 15:13 Uhr
An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Am Mi., 14. Aug. 2019 um 09:06 Uhr schrieb Thiede, Christoph <[hidden email]>:

> - On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed

As someone who often plays in Squeak using a metered connection, I would generally prefer to be asked whether any package should be installed, *before* anything is downloaded - what I would not really expect as this point. Just one idea :)

An abort mechanism during installations with a different UI than Ctrl+. might also be nice for the user experience.

If we did this in the code of the menu items, instead of the installer facilities, we would have to it again for the next installing menu items or other installing opportunities.

Carpe Squeak!

Jakob Reschke

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Am Do., 15. Aug. 2019 um 12:31 Uhr schrieb Thiede, Christoph <[hidden email]>:

If possible, these services could even check the required byte size and compare it with a user-defined treshold to decide whether to ask :) So checking for updates would not necessary require user interaction, but downloading these updates would.

I think predicting the download size would be either hard or impossible without designs changes. Metacello first has to load the baseline to see what else it needs to fetch from the Internet. That could be more baselines, which can in turn reveal more dependencies. In the case of downloads from GitHub, I think Metacello downloads a whole copy of the file tree as a zip, so once it has the baseline, it also already got the rest.

David T. Lewis

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

In reply to this post by marcel.taeumel

This sounds right to me.

I put Morphic-dtl.1506 in the inbox with another variation on the theme.
This keeps the Git Browser entry in the Tools menu, and requires informed
consent if an installation is performed.

Dave

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 08:53:59AM +0200, Marcel Taeumel wrote:

> Hi, there.
>
>
> In the last board meeting, we agreed to finally do something about the current state of the install scripts and visible menu entries for both Metacello and the Git Browser. There have been several discussions on this list.
>
> The issues I see at the moment are:
>
> - Metacello has no graphical tool window but suggests that it has being in the Tools menu
> - Git Browser, if not installed, does not reveal "click to install) in the Tools Menu
> - a click on "Git Browser" will always update it (and Metacello?) before starting it, which is just unnecessary
>
> So, I am in favor of:
>
> - Removing "Metacello" entry from the Tools menu
> - Making the "Git Browser" install state more clear (via inbox??Morphic-jr.1485)
> - On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed
> - Maybe, for manual (or administrative) updates, add "Installer ensureRecentMetacello" and "Installer installGitInfrastructure" back to the Do menu
> - revert #installGitInfrastructure to again do #ensureRecentMetacello
>
> I still like the MetacelloStub as it is now. :-)
>
> Best,
> Marcel

UserDialogBox.png (8K) Download Attachment

David T. Lewis

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Has anyone had a chance to look at Morphic-dtl.1506 in the inbox?
I think it resolves most of our concerns, although I do recall some
discussion of earlier attempts to fix this affecting the automated
builds, and I don't know if there is a concern in that regard.

From the commit message:

Update the Git Browser entry in Tools menu. Selecting "Git Browser"
opens a Git Browser. If infrastructure has not previously been installed,
prompt and show the proposed installation. If the user does not confirm,
do nothing.

Also remove the Metacello item from the Tools menu.

Menu icons are updated in the Tools menu, but note that the the Git
browser needs to have a #defaultWindowColor in order for colorful windows
to work as expected. For example, add this in package Squit:

SquitBrowser>>defaultWindowColor
^ (Color r: 0.6 g: 0.7 b: 0.6)

Dave

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 10:14:09PM -0400, David T. Lewis wrote:

> This sounds right to me.
>
> I put Morphic-dtl.1506 in the inbox with another variation on the theme.
> This keeps the Git Browser entry in the Tools menu, and requires informed
> consent if an installation is performed.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 08:53:59AM +0200, Marcel Taeumel wrote:
> > Hi, there.
> >
> >
> > In the last board meeting, we agreed to finally do something about the current state of the install scripts and visible menu entries for both Metacello and the Git Browser. There have been several discussions on this list.
> >
> > The issues I see at the moment are:
> >
> > - Metacello has no graphical tool window but suggests that it has being in the Tools menu
> > - Git Browser, if not installed, does not reveal "click to install) in the Tools Menu
> > - a click on "Git Browser" will always update it (and Metacello?) before starting it, which is just unnecessary
> >
> > So, I am in favor of:
> >
> > - Removing "Metacello" entry from the Tools menu
> > - Making the "Git Browser" install state more clear (via inbox??Morphic-jr.1485)
> > - On opening "Git Browser", avoid updating Metacello and Git Browser if they are already installed
> > - Maybe, for manual (or administrative) updates, add "Installer ensureRecentMetacello" and "Installer installGitInfrastructure" back to the Do menu
> > - revert #installGitInfrastructure to again do #ensureRecentMetacello
> >
> > I still like the MetacelloStub as it is now. :-)
> >
> > Best,
> > Marcel
>

Jakob Reschke

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Hi,

I have never had a problem not specifying a default window color so far. And I use colorful windows all the time. What problem does it solve?

Kind regards,

Jakob

David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> schrieb am So., 25. Aug. 2019, 17:25:

Menu icons are updated in the Tools menu, but note that the the Git
browser needs to have a #defaultWindowColor in order for colorful windows
to work as expected. For example, add this in package Squit:

SquitBrowser>>defaultWindowColor
^ (Color r: 0.6 g: 0.7 b: 0.6)

David T. Lewis

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 08:27:10PM +0200, Jakob Reschke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have never had a problem not specifying a default window color so far.
> And I use colorful windows all the time. What problem does it solve?
>
> Kind regards,
> Jakob

If you activate Extras -> Themes & Colors -> Colorful Windows to turn
on colorful winds, then the Tools menu entries will have colored box
icons to the left of each menu entry. The color of the box icon is
determined by defaultWindowColor for each tool. If no default color is
specified, then no colored box icon will be displayed in the Tools menu.

The earlier version of #gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: that is in trunk
today did not honor window colors, instead it had hard-coded the menu
item color. I fixed this in my update, but in order for it to work
similarly to the other tool menu entries, it is necessary for the
tool (SqueakBrowser) to specify some window color other than the
default of Model>>#uniformWindowColor.

Note also that the current version in trunk is broken when colorful
windows is disabled. In that case, the git browser (and Metacello loader)
Tool menu entries will incorrectly display grey icons (but no icon
box should be displayed in this case).

Dave

>
> David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> schrieb am So., 25. Aug. 2019, 17:25:
>
> >
> > Menu icons are updated in the Tools menu, but note that the the Git
> > browser needs to have a #defaultWindowColor in order for colorful
> > windows
> > to work as expected. For example, add this in package Squit:
> >
> > SquitBrowser>>defaultWindowColor
> > ^ (Color r: 0.6 g: 0.7 b: 0.6)
> >

marcel.taeumel

Re: [Discussion] Tools > "Metacello" and "Git Browser"

Hi, all!

You can also take a look at all senders of #windowColorToUse:

Hi, Dave. :-)

> Has anyone had a chance to look at Morphic-dtl.1506 in the inbox?

Not yet. Maybe later today.

Best,

Marcel

Am 25.08.2019 22:26:11 schrieb David T. Lewis <[hidden email]>:
On Sun, Aug 25, 2019 at 08:27:10PM +0200, Jakob Reschke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have never had a problem not specifying a default window color so far.
> And I use colorful windows all the time. What problem does it solve?
>
> Kind regards,
> Jakob

If you activate Extras -> Themes & Colors -> Colorful Windows to turn
on colorful winds, then the Tools menu entries will have colored box
icons to the left of each menu entry. The color of the box icon is
determined by defaultWindowColor for each tool. If no default color is
specified, then no colored box icon will be displayed in the Tools menu.

The earlier version of #gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: that is in trunk
today did not honor window colors, instead it had hard-coded the menu
item color. I fixed this in my update, but in order for it to work
similarly to the other tool menu entries, it is necessary for the
tool (SqueakBrowser) to specify some window color other than the
default of Model>>#uniformWindowColor.

Note also that the current version in trunk is broken when colorful
windows is disabled. In that case, the git browser (and Metacello loader)
Tool menu entries will incorrectly display grey icons (but no icon
box should be displayed in this case).

Dave

>
> David T. Lewis schrieb am So., 25. Aug. 2019, 17:25:
>
> >
> > Menu icons are updated in the Tools menu, but note that the the Git
> > browser needs to have a #defaultWindowColor in order for colorful
> > windows
> > to work as expected. For example, add this in package Squit:
> >
> > SquitBrowser>>defaultWindowColor
> > ^ (Color r: 0.6 g: 0.7 b: 0.6)
> >

>