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Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

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EricNBoulder

Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac. Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files

Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?

Paul DeBruicker

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?

https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/

Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.

EricNBoulder wrote

I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac. Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?

EricNBoulder

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

I could probably muck around and get the image and changes files, but what I'm looking for, among other things, is the V1.0 Mac virtual machine.

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:38 PM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?

https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/

Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.

EricNBoulder wrote

> I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly
> for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac.
> Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org
> doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
> Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Does-anyone-have-the-original-Squeak-1-x-Mac-releases-tp4857135p4857150.html
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David T. Lewis

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 01:31:28AM +0000, Eric Scharff wrote:
> I could probably muck around and get the image and changes files, but what I'm looking for, among other things, is the V1.0 Mac virtual machine.
>

Conventional wisdom is that unmodified versions of these original artifacts
are lost in the mists of time. If you or anyone else should turn up evidence
to the contrary, please let us know.

In particular, if you are able to muck around and find the original V1.0 image
and changes files, that would be a welcome find. The VM would be nice to have
also, but locating a copy of the first released image would be even better, and
I'm sure that Bert would quickly enshrine it on the try.squeak.org site.

Dave

>
> On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:38 PM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?
>
> https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/
>
> Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.??
>
>
> EricNBoulder wrote
> > I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly
> > for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac.
> > Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org
> > doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
> > Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?
>

johnmci

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

I may have that, but I guess I need to put it somewhere. Give me a few hours

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 7:18 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 01:31:28AM +0000, Eric Scharff wrote:
> I could probably muck around and get the image and changes files, but what I'm looking for, among other things, is the V1.0 Mac virtual machine.
>

Conventional wisdom is that unmodified versions of these original artifacts
are lost in the mists of time. If you or anyone else should turn up evidence
to the contrary, please let us know.

In particular, if you are able to muck around and find the original V1.0 image
and changes files, that would be a welcome find. The VM would be nice to have
also, but locating a copy of the first released image would be even better, and
I'm sure that Bert would quickly enshrine it on the try.squeak.org site.

Dave

>
> On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:38 PM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?
>
> https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/
>
> Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.??
>
>
> EricNBoulder wrote

> > I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly
> > for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac.
> > Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org
> > doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
> > Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?
>

===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk
===========================================================================

johnmci

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

In reply to this post by EricNBoulder

I have one that is Squeak VM 68K Dec 17th, 1996 1:05pm Not sure the version tho, guess it would be 1.1

Mmm I do have an Squeak Installer from Setp 24th 1996. Have to figure out how to open it first.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Eric Scharff <[hidden email]> wrote:

I could probably muck around and get the image and changes files, but what I'm looking for, among other things, is the V1.0 Mac virtual machine.

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:38 PM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?

https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/

Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.

EricNBoulder wrote

> I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly
> for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac.
> Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org
> doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
> Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Does-anyone-have-the-original-Squeak-1-x-Mac-releases-tp4857135p4857150.html
Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

johnmci

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

Look for the Squeak 1.1 from installer.zip file in ftp://ftp.smalltalkconsulting.com

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 9:11 PM, John McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have one that is Squeak VM 68K Dec 17th, 1996 1:05pm Not sure the version tho, guess it would be 1.1
Mmm I do have an Squeak Installer from Setp 24th 1996. Have to figure out how to open it first.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Eric Scharff <[hidden email]> wrote:
I could probably muck around and get the image and changes files, but what I'm looking for, among other things, is the V1.0 Mac virtual machine.

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:38 PM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?

https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/

Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.

EricNBoulder wrote

> I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly
> for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac.
> Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org
> doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
> Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Does-anyone-have-the-original-Squeak-1-x-Mac-releases-tp4857135p4857150.html
Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk
===========================================================================

johnmci

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

Ok, I posted a set of three image disks that contain all the work that I had done on the macintosh version of the Squeak VM from the late 1999's thru to 2010.

There are three files involved which require about 6GB of storage. People are welcome to grab a copy of them if they are curious about the code used to build earlier versions of Squeak, or

need something to run on their trophy SE/30

The files can be found at ftp://ftp.smalltalkconsulting.com/MacintoshSqueakBuildSource1996to2010/

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 10:26 PM, John McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote:

Look for the Squeak 1.1 from installer.zip file in ftp://ftp.smalltalkconsulting.com

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 9:11 PM, John McIntosh <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have one that is Squeak VM 68K Dec 17th, 1996 1:05pm Not sure the version tho, guess it would be 1.1
Mmm I do have an Squeak Installer from Setp 24th 1996. Have to figure out how to open it first.

On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 6:31 PM, Eric Scharff <[hidden email]> wrote:
I could probably muck around and get the image and changes files, but what I'm looking for, among other things, is the V1.0 Mac virtual machine.

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 4:38 PM, Paul DeBruicker <[hidden email]> wrote:

Can you download an image from the SqueakJS site or is it run only?

https://bertfreudenberg.github.io/SqueakJS/run/

Looks like there is a 1.13 image there.

EricNBoulder wrote

> I'm trying to track down the very oldest oldest squeak releases (mostly
> for historic purposes), the original 1.x (and earlier) releases for Mac.
> Of course, research.apple.com is long gone, and even ftp.squeak.org
> doesn't seem to have the .sit.hqx files
> Anyone have any idea where the old distributions can be found?

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Does-anyone-have-the-original-Squeak-1-x-Mac-releases-tp4857135p4857150.html
Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk
===========================================================================

--
===========================================================================
John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk
===========================================================================

marcel.taeumel

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

In reply to this post by johnmci

The image looks like the 1.1 on our FTP (http://ftp.squeak.org/1.1/) but it will not open with the Windows VM from then. Was the image format somewhat different between Windows/Mac back then?

Best,
Marcel

timrowledge

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

> On 23-10-2015, at 11:28 AM, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The image looks like the 1.1 on our FTP (http://ftp.squeak.org/1.1/) but it
> will not open with the Windows VM from then. Was the image format somewhat
> different between Windows/Mac back then?

No, the image *format* was the same but the image was originally pretty solidly Mac specific until Andreas added support for Windows, Ian added it for *nix and I added it for RISC OS. It’s possible that image you have there simply predates any of that.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Maniac: An early computer built by nuts...

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

> On 24.10.2015, at 19:15, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On 23-10-2015, at 11:28 AM, marcel.taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> The image looks like the 1.1 on our FTP (http://ftp.squeak.org/1.1/) but it
>> will not open with the Windows VM from then. Was the image format somewhat
>> different between Windows/Mac back then?
>
> No, the image *format* was the same but the image was originally pretty solidly Mac specific until Andreas added support for Windows, Ian added it for *nix and I added it for RISC OS. It’s possible that image you have there simply predates any of that.

The image on the website is 1.1w meaning it has the WindowsFileDirectory class which is needed to make it work on the Windows VM (it supports Mac and Windows). IIRC it lacks the UnixFileDir though (those are labeled “...u”).

John’s image only has MacFileDirectory, so I think this is actually the oldest released image found so far, and we should put it on the website.

Would be fun if someone looked at the changes file time stamps to reconstruct the evolution of early Squeak images ...

- Bert -

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Jecel Assumpcao Jr

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

Bert Freudenberg wrote on Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:51:55 +0100:

> > On 24.10.2015, at 19:15, tim Rowledge wrote:
> >> On 23-10-2015, at 11:28 AM, marcel.taeumel wrote:
> >>
> >> The image looks like the 1.1 on our FTP (http://ftp.squeak.org/1.1/) but it
> >> will not open with the Windows VM from then. Was the image format somewhat
> >> different between Windows/Mac back then?
> >
> > No, the image *format* was the same but the image was originally pretty solidly
> > Mac specific until Andreas added support for Windows, Ian added it for *nix and
> > I added it for RISC OS. It?s possible that image you have there simply predates
> > any of that.

Wasn't one of your RISC OS additions the ability to load images saved in
the opposite "endian"? I would guess that any VMs (Mac, Windows and
Unix) before that would be more picky about what images they could load,
though a newer VM could easily be used to create the needed image.

> The image on the website is 1.1w meaning it has the WindowsFileDirectory class
> which is needed to make it work on the Windows VM (it supports Mac and Windows).
> IIRC it lacks the UnixFileDir though (those are labeled ?...u?).
>
> John?s image only has MacFileDirectory, so I think this is actually the oldest released
> image found so far, and we should put it on the website.
>
> Would be fun if someone looked at the changes file time stamps to reconstruct the
> evolution of early Squeak images ...

The first image I ever saw was 1.13 until the relicensed 1.1 was
released about 10 years later. I think that individual methods didn't
have timestaps before 2.2 or so, but all the times the image was saved
would be indicated in the .changes files and that should be good enough.
It might even be possible to continue tracing back the evolution to the
Apple Smalltalk and then Xerox Smalltalk this way.

-- Jecel

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg

> On 28.10.2015, at 02:35, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Bert Freudenberg wrote on Mon, 26 Oct 2015 00:51:55 +0100:
>>> On 24.10.2015, at 19:15, tim Rowledge wrote:
>>>> On 23-10-2015, at 11:28 AM, marcel.taeumel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The image looks like the 1.1 on our FTP (http://ftp.squeak.org/1.1/) but it
>>>> will not open with the Windows VM from then. Was the image format somewhat
>>>> different between Windows/Mac back then?
>>>
>>> No, the image *format* was the same but the image was originally pretty solidly
>>> Mac specific until Andreas added support for Windows, Ian added it for *nix and
>>> I added it for RISC OS. It?s possible that image you have there simply predates
>>> any of that.
>
> Wasn't one of your RISC OS additions the ability to load images saved in
> the opposite "endian"? I would guess that any VMs (Mac, Windows and
> Unix) before that would be more picky about what images they could load,
> though a newer VM could easily be used to create the needed image.

I thought Ian created that … we should write up an article about the early community history of Squeak.

>> The image on the website is 1.1w meaning it has the WindowsFileDirectory class
>> which is needed to make it work on the Windows VM (it supports Mac and Windows).
>> IIRC it lacks the UnixFileDir though (those are labeled ?...u?).
>>
>> John?s image only has MacFileDirectory, so I think this is actually the oldest released
>> image found so far, and we should put it on the website.
>>
>> Would be fun if someone looked at the changes file time stamps to reconstruct the
>> evolution of early Squeak images ...
>
> The first image I ever saw was 1.13 until the relicensed 1.1 was
> released about 10 years later. I think that individual methods didn't
> have timestaps before 2.2 or so, but all the times the image was saved
> would be indicated in the .changes files and that should be good enough.
> It might even be possible to continue tracing back the evolution to the
> Apple Smalltalk and then Xerox Smalltalk this way.

I have a pre-release Squeak image from May 20 1996 (image format version 6501) but I’m not entirely sure of its licensing status …

- Bert -

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

timrowledge

Re: Does anyone have the original Squeak 1.x Mac releases?

> On 28-10-2015, at 4:19 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I thought Ian created that … we should write up an article about the early community history of Squeak.

I think Ian did the first approach, Andreas added some stuff and I added some simplistifications.

We could actually get rid of it these days since there are no interesting big-endian cpus anymore. :-) And we should get rid of the big-endian bitmaps too.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Life would be much easier if I had the source code.