Download of latest version of Loke/BabyIDE image? (was Re: A Sad Day ??? concluded)
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Download of latest version of Loke/BabyIDE image? (was Re: A Sad Day ??? concluded)
 
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Hello
I was looking for the latest version of the Loke/BabyIDE image at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 >> > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI >> > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse >> > Engineering >> > (SRE), and more.) It is no longer available at this mendeley url as it is not a dataset but a program. Could somebody who has downloaded it please make it available on the squeak web site? Thank you Regards Hannes On 10/4/20, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote: > Thank you Trygve, > > I confirm also that the image runs very well on my Ubuntu Linux laptop > with a VM compiled per http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354. > > Dave > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 07:56:43PM +0900, masato sumi wrote: >> Dear Trygve, >> >> I confirmed that I could launch the Loke/BabyIDE image with the included >> SqueakVM for Windows (8.1 and 10) >> and I could also launch it in a web browser by using the SqueakJS VM ( >> https://squeak.js.org/run ). >> >> Thank you very much. >> >> -- >> sumim >> >> 2020-10-03 15:48 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]>: >> >> > Dear Sumim, >> > Thank you for your kind words. >> > >> > The latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 is at >> > https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 >> > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI >> > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse >> > Engineering >> > (SRE), and more. >> > >> > Best >> > --Trygve >> > >> > On 2020-10-02 20:14, masato sumi wrote: >> > >> > Dear Trygve, >> > >> > Thank you for your very long term contribution and efforts. >> > >> > I'm very sorry that I couldn't help you at all now. >> > >> > I'm afraid, but could you please make your latest version of >> > Loke/BabyIDE >> > written on Squeak3.10.2 available for future generations of researchers >> > and/or followers? >> > >> > Anyway, I think your ideas and thoughts should be passed on to future >> > generations as faithfully as we can possible, and I myself will try to >> > make >> > sure that. >> > >> > Thank you so much and goodbye. >> > Please take care of yourself. >> > >> > -- >> > sumim >> > >> > 2020-10-03 0:54 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]>: >> > >> >> Dear all, >> >> I need to use many words to explore why I can't understand current >> >> Squeak >> >> code. I believe the reason is a profound one, and I hope some of you >> >> have >> >> the patience to read about it. >> >> >> >> Thank you for your responses to my 'A Sad Day'-message. One response >> >> said >> >> "*But please don't give up as an inventor of MVC, which has simplified >> >> writing software for all of us.* >> >> >> >> >> >> *We need new ideas to stabilize Smalltalk." *As to MVC, it was received >> >> with acclamation when I first presented it at PARC in 1978, and people >> >> suggested I should make it the theme of my article in the special >> >> Smalltalk >> >> issue of Byte. I couldn't understand it; MVC was so simple and obvious >> >> that >> >> is was not worth writing about it. Nevertheless, people seem to have >> >> problems understanding MVC. It took me a long time before I gleaned >> >> what >> >> was going on. The explanation is a deep one, rooted in our different >> >> mental >> >> paradigms. >> >> >> >> From around 1970, I was working on Prokon, a distributed system for >> >> managers in the shipbuilding industry: >> >> >> >> Every manager has their own computer that they use for augmenting >> >> their >> >> mind. The manager understands their software and ideally writes it >> >> themselves. Managers delegate conversations with other managers to >> >> their >> >> computer's M-to-M network. (Marked with a heavy black line in the >> >> figure). >> >> I chose "distributed planning with central control" as my example >> >> project. >> >> Each manager creates a plan for their department, using apps suited to >> >> their particular needs. A **distributed algorithm** ensures consistency >> >> across departments. >> >> >> >> I came to PARC in 1978 and could immediately relate to the Smalltalk >> >> image with its universe of collaborating objects. Alan's definition of >> >> object-orientation fitted my Prokon model: "Thus its semantics are a >> >> bit >> >> like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by >> >> a >> >> very fast network." >> >> >> >> MVC prescribes a network of communicating objects. Any object can fill >> >> one or more positions in the network as long as it has the required >> >> behavior; their classes are irrelevant. It's so simple that it's not >> >> worth >> >> writing about it. >> >> >> >> >> >> ==================== >> >> >> >> The work on this post was interrupted at this point by an unexpected >> >> week >> >> in hospital. It gave me quiet days of pondering the futility of what I >> >> am >> >> doing and I will be terminating my memberships in the Pharo and Squeak >> >> mailing lists. I have also deleted most of the old draft of this >> >> message >> >> and will quickly conclude with two observations: >> >> >> >> >> >> 1. >> >> The Smalltalk image is a universe of communicating objects. I call >> >> it >> >> an object computer. It can be seen as the model of an entirely new >> >> kind of >> >> computer, a model on a level closer to the human mind than the von >> >> Neumann >> >> model of 1948. The new model is communication-centric and should >> >> supersede >> >> the ubiquitous CPU-centric model as soon as possible. Working out >> >> the >> >> details of this idea could make an exciting and disruptive Ph.D. >> >> thesis. >> >> 2. >> >> Smalltalk is called a programming language. It is a curious one, >> >> very >> >> different from well-known languages like Java with their syntax and >> >> semantics. Smalltalk, as a programming language, does not have the >> >> concept >> >> of a program. Smalltalk, as a class-oriented language, does not have >> >> syntax >> >> for the declaration of a class. Smalltalk, as an object-oriented >> >> language, >> >> can't describe how objects collaborate to achieve a goal. You appear >> >> to be >> >> happy with this state of affairs, at least, I see no sign of anybody >> >> wanting to move on from the unfinished Smalltalk language to a >> >> mature >> >> development environment. I do not find it satisfactory and it is not >> >> acceptable to the intended managers populating the distributed >> >> system shown >> >> in the first picture. Consequently, I have done something about it >> >> as >> >> described in my SoSym article "*Personal Programming and the Object >> >> Computer.*" I am tired of being alone in my endeavors and this ends >> >> my work with Squeak and other Smalltalks. I wish you health and >> >> happiness >> >> wherever you happen to be. >> >> >> >> Trygve >> >> Personal programming and the object computer >> >> https://doi.org/10.1007/s10270-019-00768-3 >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to >> >> achieve a goal. * >> >> Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] >> >> <%[hidden email]> >> >> Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ >> >> N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info >> >> Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > >> > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to >> > achieve >> > a goal. * >> > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> >> > Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ >> > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info >> > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 >> > > > > > >> > > > |
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Hi,
I downloaded it to Mendeley because this should be a safe haven for data. It was accepted, given a DOI and published. Somebody low down in the Mendeley hierarchy has decided it is not a valid data set after all. They have broken my agreement with them and removed it without informing me. This is now an ongoing discussion. Here's is a version of the BabyIDE zip: http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/assets/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip It may not be identical to the published version, but should be very close. I have also finished a user guide for the image, I'll probably just make it an attachment to a squeak-Dev message. How do I make files available on the Squeak web site? Trygve On 2020-11-04 16:41, H. Hirzel wrote:
Hello I was looking for the latest version of the Loke/BabyIDE image at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse Engineering (SRE), and more.)It is no longer available at this mendeley url as it is not a dataset but a program. Could somebody who has downloaded it please make it available on the squeak web site? Thank you Regards Hannes On 10/4/20, David T. Lewis [hidden email] wrote:Thank you Trygve, I confirm also that the image runs very well on my Ubuntu Linux laptop with a VM compiled per http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354. Dave On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 07:56:43PM +0900, masato sumi wrote:Dear Trygve, I confirmed that I could launch the Loke/BabyIDE image with the included SqueakVM for Windows (8.1 and 10) and I could also launch it in a web browser by using the SqueakJS VM ( https://squeak.js.org/run ). Thank you very much. -- sumim 2020-10-03 15:48 Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email]:Dear Sumim, Thank you for your kind words. The latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 is at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse Engineering (SRE), and more. Best --Trygve On 2020-10-02 20:14, masato sumi wrote: Dear Trygve, Thank you for your very long term contribution and efforts. I'm very sorry that I couldn't help you at all now. I'm afraid, but could you please make your latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 available for future generations of researchers and/or followers? Anyway, I think your ideas and thoughts should be passed on to future generations as faithfully as we can possible, and I myself will try to make sure that. Thank you so much and goodbye. Please take care of yourself. -- sumim 2020-10-03 0:54 Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email]:Dear all, I need to use many words to explore why I can't understand current Squeak code. I believe the reason is a profound one, and I hope some of you have the patience to read about it. Thank you for your responses to my 'A Sad Day'-message. One response said "*But please don't give up as an inventor of MVC, which has simplified writing software for all of us.* *We need new ideas to stabilize Smalltalk." *As to MVC, it was received with acclamation when I first presented it at PARC in 1978, and people suggested I should make it the theme of my article in the special Smalltalk issue of Byte. I couldn't understand it; MVC was so simple and obvious that is was not worth writing about it. Nevertheless, people seem to have problems understanding MVC. It took me a long time before I gleaned what was going on. The explanation is a deep one, rooted in our different mental paradigms. From around 1970, I was working on Prokon, a distributed system for managers in the shipbuilding industry: Every manager has their own computer that they use for augmenting their mind. The manager understands their software and ideally writes it themselves. Managers delegate conversations with other managers to their computer's M-to-M network. (Marked with a heavy black line in the figure). I chose "distributed planning with central control" as my example project. Each manager creates a plan for their department, using apps suited to their particular needs. A **distributed algorithm** ensures consistency across departments. I came to PARC in 1978 and could immediately relate to the Smalltalk image with its universe of collaborating objects. Alan's definition of object-orientation fitted my Prokon model: "Thus its semantics are a bit like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by a very fast network." MVC prescribes a network of communicating objects. Any object can fill one or more positions in the network as long as it has the required behavior; their classes are irrelevant. It's so simple that it's not worth writing about it. ==================== The work on this post was interrupted at this point by an unexpected week in hospital. It gave me quiet days of pondering the futility of what I am doing and I will be terminating my memberships in the Pharo and Squeak mailing lists. I have also deleted most of the old draft of this message and will quickly conclude with two observations: 1. The Smalltalk image is a universe of communicating objects. I call it an object computer. It can be seen as the model of an entirely new kind of computer, a model on a level closer to the human mind than the von Neumann model of 1948. The new model is communication-centric and should supersede the ubiquitous CPU-centric model as soon as possible. Working out the details of this idea could make an exciting and disruptive Ph.D. thesis. 2. Smalltalk is called a programming language. It is a curious one, very different from well-known languages like Java with their syntax and semantics. Smalltalk, as a programming language, does not have the concept of a program. Smalltalk, as a class-oriented language, does not have syntax for the declaration of a class. Smalltalk, as an object-oriented language, can't describe how objects collaborate to achieve a goal. You appear to be happy with this state of affairs, at least, I see no sign of anybody wanting to move on from the unfinished Smalltalk language to a mature development environment. I do not find it satisfactory and it is not acceptable to the intended managers populating the distributed system shown in the first picture. Consequently, I have done something about it as described in my SoSym article "*Personal Programming and the Object Computer.*" I am tired of being alone in my endeavors and this ends my work with Squeak and other Smalltalks. I wish you health and happiness wherever you happen to be. Trygve Personal programming and the object computer https://doi.org/10.1007/s10270-019-00768-3 -- *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve a goal. * Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] [hidden email] Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625-- *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve a goal. * Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] [hidden email] Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 --
The essence
of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve a
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 9:28 pm, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Trygve, Our website is on GitHub [1] and we accept pull requests. I'm part of the Squeak web team and am happy to assist or upload files to our file server. Fabio
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Re: Download of latest version of Loke/BabyIDE image? (was Re: A Sad Day ??? concluded)
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Hi Fabio,
CC Squeak oversight board who I expect will support this enthusiastically. If you could put the BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip file from Trygve's site on http://files.squeak.org site, that would be great. I would suggest saving it as: http://files.squeak.org/various_images/BabyIDE/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip Also, the zip file contains a README.txt so it might be a good idea to save that README.txt file in the same folder with the zip. I don't know that Trygve is a git user, but I'll try to help with a pull request to tie this into our squeak.org site. Thanks very much for your help, Dave On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 11:18:08PM +0100, Fabio Niephaus wrote: > On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 9:28 pm, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > I downloaded it to Mendeley because this should be a safe haven for data. > > It was accepted, given a DOI and published. Somebody low down in the > > Mendeley hierarchy has decided it is not a valid data set after all. They > > have broken my agreement with them and removed it without informing me. > > This is now an ongoing discussion. > > > > Here's is a version of the BabyIDE zip: > > > > http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/assets/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip > > > > It may not be identical to the published version, but should be very close. > > I have also finished a user guide for the image, I'll probably just make > > it an attachment to a squeak-Dev message. > > > > *How do I make files available on the Squeak web site?* > > > > Hi Trygve, > > Our website is on GitHub [1] and we accept pull requests. I'm part of the > Squeak web team and am happy to assist or upload files to our file server. > > Fabio > > > [1] > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak.org > > > > > > Trygve > > > > > > On 2020-11-04 16:41, H. Hirzel wrote: > > > > Hello > > > > I was looking for the latest version of the > > > > Loke/BabyIDE image > > > > at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 > > > > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI > > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse > > Engineering > > (SRE), and more.) > > > > It is no longer available at this mendeley url as it is not a dataset > > but a program. > > Could somebody who has downloaded it please make it available on the > > squeak web site? > > > > Thank you > > Regards > > Hannes > > > > > > > > > > On 10/4/20, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Thank you Trygve, > > > > I confirm also that the image runs very well on my Ubuntu Linux laptop > > with a VM compiled per http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354. > > > > Dave > > > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 07:56:43PM +0900, masato sumi wrote: > > > > Dear Trygve, > > > > I confirmed that I could launch the Loke/BabyIDE image with the included > > SqueakVM for Windows (8.1 and 10) > > and I could also launch it in a web browser by using the SqueakJS VM (https://squeak.js.org/run ). > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > -- > > sumim > > > > 2020-10-03 15:48 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > Dear Sumim, > > Thank you for your kind words. > > > > The latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 is athttps://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 > > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI > > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse > > Engineering > > (SRE), and more. > > > > Best > > --Trygve > > > > On 2020-10-02 20:14, masato sumi wrote: > > > > Dear Trygve, > > > > Thank you for your very long term contribution and efforts. > > > > I'm very sorry that I couldn't help you at all now. > > > > I'm afraid, but could you please make your latest version of > > Loke/BabyIDE > > written on Squeak3.10.2 available for future generations of researchers > > and/or followers? > > > > Anyway, I think your ideas and thoughts should be passed on to future > > generations as faithfully as we can possible, and I myself will try to > > make > > sure that. > > > > Thank you so much and goodbye. > > Please take care of yourself. > > > > -- > > sumim > > > > 2020-10-03 0:54 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > Dear all, > > I need to use many words to explore why I can't understand current > > Squeak > > code. I believe the reason is a profound one, and I hope some of you > > have > > the patience to read about it. > > > > Thank you for your responses to my 'A Sad Day'-message. One response > > said > > "*But please don't give up as an inventor of MVC, which has simplified > > writing software for all of us.* > > > > > > *We need new ideas to stabilize Smalltalk." *As to MVC, it was received > > with acclamation when I first presented it at PARC in 1978, and people > > suggested I should make it the theme of my article in the special > > Smalltalk > > issue of Byte. I couldn't understand it; MVC was so simple and obvious > > that > > is was not worth writing about it. Nevertheless, people seem to have > > problems understanding MVC. It took me a long time before I gleaned > > what > > was going on. The explanation is a deep one, rooted in our different > > mental > > paradigms. > > > > From around 1970, I was working on Prokon, a distributed system for > > managers in the shipbuilding industry: > > > > Every manager has their own computer that they use for augmenting > > their > > mind. The manager understands their software and ideally writes it > > themselves. Managers delegate conversations with other managers to > > their > > computer's M-to-M network. (Marked with a heavy black line in the > > figure). > > I chose "distributed planning with central control" as my example > > project. > > Each manager creates a plan for their department, using apps suited to > > their particular needs. A **distributed algorithm** ensures consistency > > across departments. > > > > I came to PARC in 1978 and could immediately relate to the Smalltalk > > image with its universe of collaborating objects. Alan's definition of > > object-orientation fitted my Prokon model: "Thus its semantics are a > > bit > > like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by > > a > > very fast network." > > > > MVC prescribes a network of communicating objects. Any object can fill > > one or more positions in the network as long as it has the required > > behavior; their classes are irrelevant. It's so simple that it's not > > worth > > writing about it. > > > > > > ==================== > > > > The work on this post was interrupted at this point by an unexpected > > week > > in hospital. It gave me quiet days of pondering the futility of what I > > am > > doing and I will be terminating my memberships in the Pharo and Squeak > > mailing lists. I have also deleted most of the old draft of this > > message > > and will quickly conclude with two observations: > > > > > > 1. > > The Smalltalk image is a universe of communicating objects. I call > > it > > an object computer. It can be seen as the model of an entirely new > > kind of > > computer, a model on a level closer to the human mind than the von > > Neumann > > model of 1948. The new model is communication-centric and should > > supersede > > the ubiquitous CPU-centric model as soon as possible. Working out > > the > > details of this idea could make an exciting and disruptive Ph.D. > > thesis. > > 2. > > Smalltalk is called a programming language. It is a curious one, > > very > > different from well-known languages like Java with their syntax and > > semantics. Smalltalk, as a programming language, does not have the > > concept > > of a program. Smalltalk, as a class-oriented language, does not have > > syntax > > for the declaration of a class. Smalltalk, as an object-oriented > > language, > > can't describe how objects collaborate to achieve a goal. You appear > > to be > > happy with this state of affairs, at least, I see no sign of anybody > > wanting to move on from the unfinished Smalltalk language to a > > mature > > development environment. I do not find it satisfactory and it is not > > acceptable to the intended managers populating the distributed > > system shown > > in the first picture. Consequently, I have done something about it > > as > > described in my SoSym article "*Personal Programming and the Object > > Computer.*" I am tired of being alone in my endeavors and this ends > > my work with Squeak and other Smalltalks. I wish you health and > > happiness > > wherever you happen to be. > > > > Trygve > > Personal programming and the object computerhttps://doi.org/10.1007/s10270-019-00768-3 > > > > -- > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to > > achieve a goal. * > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email]<%[hidden email]> <%[hidden email]>Morgedalsvn. 5A <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Morgedalsvn.+5A?entry=gmail&source=g> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to > > achieve > > a goal. * > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> <%[hidden email]>Morgedalsvn. 5A <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Morgedalsvn.+5A?entry=gmail&source=g> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve > > a goal. * > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> > > Morgedalsvn. 5A http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/ > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > |
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Hi Dave,
On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 3:46 AM David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Fabio, > > CC Squeak oversight board who I expect will support this enthusiastically. > > If you could put the BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip file from Trygve's site on > http://files.squeak.org site, that would be great. > > I would suggest saving it as: > > http://files.squeak.org/various_images/BabyIDE/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip > > Also, the zip file contains a README.txt so it might be a good idea to > save that README.txt file in the same folder with the zip. Done! I've also added BabyIDE to the project list on squeak.org: https://squeak.org/projects/ Fabio > > I don't know that Trygve is a git user, but I'll try to help with a pull > request to tie this into our squeak.org site. > > Thanks very much for your help, > > Dave > > > > On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 11:18:08PM +0100, Fabio Niephaus wrote: > > On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 9:28 pm, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > I downloaded it to Mendeley because this should be a safe haven for data. > > > It was accepted, given a DOI and published. Somebody low down in the > > > Mendeley hierarchy has decided it is not a valid data set after all. They > > > have broken my agreement with them and removed it without informing me. > > > This is now an ongoing discussion. > > > > > > Here's is a version of the BabyIDE zip: > > > > > > http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/assets/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip > > > > > > It may not be identical to the published version, but should be very close. > > > I have also finished a user guide for the image, I'll probably just make > > > it an attachment to a squeak-Dev message. > > > > > > *How do I make files available on the Squeak web site?* > > > > > > > Hi Trygve, > > > > Our website is on GitHub [1] and we accept pull requests. I'm part of the > > Squeak web team and am happy to assist or upload files to our file server. > > > > Fabio > > > > > > [1] > > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak.org > > > > > > > > > > Trygve > > > > > > > > > On 2020-11-04 16:41, H. Hirzel wrote: > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > I was looking for the latest version of the > > > > > > Loke/BabyIDE image > > > > > > at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 > > > > > > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI > > > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse > > > Engineering > > > (SRE), and more.) > > > > > > It is no longer available at this mendeley url as it is not a dataset > > > but a program. > > > Could somebody who has downloaded it please make it available on the > > > squeak web site? > > > > > > Thank you > > > Regards > > > Hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/4/20, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > Thank you Trygve, > > > > > > I confirm also that the image runs very well on my Ubuntu Linux laptop > > > with a VM compiled per http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 07:56:43PM +0900, masato sumi wrote: > > > > > > Dear Trygve, > > > > > > I confirmed that I could launch the Loke/BabyIDE image with the included > > > SqueakVM for Windows (8.1 and 10) > > > and I could also launch it in a web browser by using the SqueakJS VM (https://squeak.js.org/run ). > > > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > > > -- > > > sumim > > > > > > 2020-10-03 15:48 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > Dear Sumim, > > > Thank you for your kind words. > > > > > > The latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 is athttps://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 > > > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI > > > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse > > > Engineering > > > (SRE), and more. > > > > > > Best > > > --Trygve > > > > > > On 2020-10-02 20:14, masato sumi wrote: > > > > > > Dear Trygve, > > > > > > Thank you for your very long term contribution and efforts. > > > > > > I'm very sorry that I couldn't help you at all now. > > > > > > I'm afraid, but could you please make your latest version of > > > Loke/BabyIDE > > > written on Squeak3.10.2 available for future generations of researchers > > > and/or followers? > > > > > > Anyway, I think your ideas and thoughts should be passed on to future > > > generations as faithfully as we can possible, and I myself will try to > > > make > > > sure that. > > > > > > Thank you so much and goodbye. > > > Please take care of yourself. > > > > > > -- > > > sumim > > > > > > 2020-10-03 0:54 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > I need to use many words to explore why I can't understand current > > > Squeak > > > code. I believe the reason is a profound one, and I hope some of you > > > have > > > the patience to read about it. > > > > > > Thank you for your responses to my 'A Sad Day'-message. One response > > > said > > > "*But please don't give up as an inventor of MVC, which has simplified > > > writing software for all of us.* > > > > > > > > > *We need new ideas to stabilize Smalltalk." *As to MVC, it was received > > > with acclamation when I first presented it at PARC in 1978, and people > > > suggested I should make it the theme of my article in the special > > > Smalltalk > > > issue of Byte. I couldn't understand it; MVC was so simple and obvious > > > that > > > is was not worth writing about it. Nevertheless, people seem to have > > > problems understanding MVC. It took me a long time before I gleaned > > > what > > > was going on. The explanation is a deep one, rooted in our different > > > mental > > > paradigms. > > > > > > From around 1970, I was working on Prokon, a distributed system for > > > managers in the shipbuilding industry: > > > > > > Every manager has their own computer that they use for augmenting > > > their > > > mind. The manager understands their software and ideally writes it > > > themselves. Managers delegate conversations with other managers to > > > their > > > computer's M-to-M network. (Marked with a heavy black line in the > > > figure). > > > I chose "distributed planning with central control" as my example > > > project. > > > Each manager creates a plan for their department, using apps suited to > > > their particular needs. A **distributed algorithm** ensures consistency > > > across departments. > > > > > > I came to PARC in 1978 and could immediately relate to the Smalltalk > > > image with its universe of collaborating objects. Alan's definition of > > > object-orientation fitted my Prokon model: "Thus its semantics are a > > > bit > > > like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by > > > a > > > very fast network." > > > > > > MVC prescribes a network of communicating objects. Any object can fill > > > one or more positions in the network as long as it has the required > > > behavior; their classes are irrelevant. It's so simple that it's not > > > worth > > > writing about it. > > > > > > > > > ==================== > > > > > > The work on this post was interrupted at this point by an unexpected > > > week > > > in hospital. It gave me quiet days of pondering the futility of what I > > > am > > > doing and I will be terminating my memberships in the Pharo and Squeak > > > mailing lists. I have also deleted most of the old draft of this > > > message > > > and will quickly conclude with two observations: > > > > > > > > > 1. > > > The Smalltalk image is a universe of communicating objects. I call > > > it > > > an object computer. It can be seen as the model of an entirely new > > > kind of > > > computer, a model on a level closer to the human mind than the von > > > Neumann > > > model of 1948. The new model is communication-centric and should > > > supersede > > > the ubiquitous CPU-centric model as soon as possible. Working out > > > the > > > details of this idea could make an exciting and disruptive Ph.D. > > > thesis. > > > 2. > > > Smalltalk is called a programming language. It is a curious one, > > > very > > > different from well-known languages like Java with their syntax and > > > semantics. Smalltalk, as a programming language, does not have the > > > concept > > > of a program. Smalltalk, as a class-oriented language, does not have > > > syntax > > > for the declaration of a class. Smalltalk, as an object-oriented > > > language, > > > can't describe how objects collaborate to achieve a goal. You appear > > > to be > > > happy with this state of affairs, at least, I see no sign of anybody > > > wanting to move on from the unfinished Smalltalk language to a > > > mature > > > development environment. I do not find it satisfactory and it is not > > > acceptable to the intended managers populating the distributed > > > system shown > > > in the first picture. Consequently, I have done something about it > > > as > > > described in my SoSym article "*Personal Programming and the Object > > > Computer.*" I am tired of being alone in my endeavors and this ends > > > my work with Squeak and other Smalltalks. I wish you health and > > > happiness > > > wherever you happen to be. > > > > > > Trygve > > > Personal programming and the object computerhttps://doi.org/10.1007/s10270-019-00768-3 > > > > > > -- > > > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to > > > achieve a goal. * > > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email]<%[hidden email]> <%[hidden email]>Morgedalsvn. 5A <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Morgedalsvn.+5A?entry=gmail&source=g> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to > > > achieve > > > a goal. * > > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> <%[hidden email]>Morgedalsvn. 5A <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Morgedalsvn.+5A?entry=gmail&source=g> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve > > > a goal. * > > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> > > > Morgedalsvn. 5A http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/ > > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > > > > > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: [Board] Download of latest version of Loke/BabyIDE image? (was Re: A Sad Day ??? concluded)
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Fabio,
Thank you very much for updating https://squeak.org/projects with BabyIDE, and thank you to Trygve Reenskaug for making this work available. Dave On Fri, Nov 06, 2020 at 03:51:54PM +0100, Fabio Niephaus wrote: > Hi Dave, > > On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 3:46 AM David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > Hi Fabio, > > > > CC Squeak oversight board who I expect will support this enthusiastically. > > > > If you could put the BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip file from Trygve's site on > > http://files.squeak.org site, that would be great. > > > > I would suggest saving it as: > > > > http://files.squeak.org/various_images/BabyIDE/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip > > > > Also, the zip file contains a README.txt so it might be a good idea to > > save that README.txt file in the same folder with the zip. > > Done! I've also added BabyIDE to the project list on squeak.org: > https://squeak.org/projects/ > > Fabio > > > > > I don't know that Trygve is a git user, but I'll try to help with a pull > > request to tie this into our squeak.org site. > > > > Thanks very much for your help, > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 11:18:08PM +0100, Fabio Niephaus wrote: > > > On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 9:28 pm, Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I downloaded it to Mendeley because this should be a safe haven for data. > > > > It was accepted, given a DOI and published. Somebody low down in the > > > > Mendeley hierarchy has decided it is not a valid data set after all. They > > > > have broken my agreement with them and removed it without informing me. > > > > This is now an ongoing discussion. > > > > > > > > Here's is a version of the BabyIDE zip: > > > > > > > > http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/assets/BabyIDE-2019.07.23.zip > > > > > > > > It may not be identical to the published version, but should be very close. > > > > I have also finished a user guide for the image, I'll probably just make > > > > it an attachment to a squeak-Dev message. > > > > > > > > *How do I make files available on the Squeak web site?* > > > > > > > > > > Hi Trygve, > > > > > > Our website is on GitHub [1] and we accept pull requests. I'm part of the > > > Squeak web team and am happy to assist or upload files to our file server. > > > > > > Fabio > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trygve > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2020-11-04 16:41, H. Hirzel wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > > > I was looking for the latest version of the > > > > > > > > Loke/BabyIDE image > > > > > > > > at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 > > > > > > > > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI > > > > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse > > > > Engineering > > > > (SRE), and more.) > > > > > > > > It is no longer available at this mendeley url as it is not a dataset > > > > but a program. > > > > Could somebody who has downloaded it please make it available on the > > > > squeak web site? > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > Regards > > > > Hannes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10/4/20, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thank you Trygve, > > > > > > > > I confirm also that the image runs very well on my Ubuntu Linux laptop > > > > with a VM compiled per http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354. > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 07:56:43PM +0900, masato sumi wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Trygve, > > > > > > > > I confirmed that I could launch the Loke/BabyIDE image with the included > > > > SqueakVM for Windows (8.1 and 10) > > > > and I could also launch it in a web browser by using the SqueakJS VM (https://squeak.js.org/run ). > > > > > > > > Thank you very much. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > sumim > > > > > > > > 2020-10-03 15:48 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Sumim, > > > > Thank you for your kind words. > > > > > > > > The latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 is athttps://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 > > > > The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI > > > > programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse > > > > Engineering > > > > (SRE), and more. > > > > > > > > Best > > > > --Trygve > > > > > > > > On 2020-10-02 20:14, masato sumi wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Trygve, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your very long term contribution and efforts. > > > > > > > > I'm very sorry that I couldn't help you at all now. > > > > > > > > I'm afraid, but could you please make your latest version of > > > > Loke/BabyIDE > > > > written on Squeak3.10.2 available for future generations of researchers > > > > and/or followers? > > > > > > > > Anyway, I think your ideas and thoughts should be passed on to future > > > > generations as faithfully as we can possible, and I myself will try to > > > > make > > > > sure that. > > > > > > > > Thank you so much and goodbye. > > > > Please take care of yourself. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > sumim > > > > > > > > 2020-10-03 0:54 Trygve Reenskaug <[hidden email]> <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > I need to use many words to explore why I can't understand current > > > > Squeak > > > > code. I believe the reason is a profound one, and I hope some of you > > > > have > > > > the patience to read about it. > > > > > > > > Thank you for your responses to my 'A Sad Day'-message. One response > > > > said > > > > "*But please don't give up as an inventor of MVC, which has simplified > > > > writing software for all of us.* > > > > > > > > > > > > *We need new ideas to stabilize Smalltalk." *As to MVC, it was received > > > > with acclamation when I first presented it at PARC in 1978, and people > > > > suggested I should make it the theme of my article in the special > > > > Smalltalk > > > > issue of Byte. I couldn't understand it; MVC was so simple and obvious > > > > that > > > > is was not worth writing about it. Nevertheless, people seem to have > > > > problems understanding MVC. It took me a long time before I gleaned > > > > what > > > > was going on. The explanation is a deep one, rooted in our different > > > > mental > > > > paradigms. > > > > > > > > From around 1970, I was working on Prokon, a distributed system for > > > > managers in the shipbuilding industry: > > > > > > > > Every manager has their own computer that they use for augmenting > > > > their > > > > mind. The manager understands their software and ideally writes it > > > > themselves. Managers delegate conversations with other managers to > > > > their > > > > computer's M-to-M network. (Marked with a heavy black line in the > > > > figure). > > > > I chose "distributed planning with central control" as my example > > > > project. > > > > Each manager creates a plan for their department, using apps suited to > > > > their particular needs. A **distributed algorithm** ensures consistency > > > > across departments. > > > > > > > > I came to PARC in 1978 and could immediately relate to the Smalltalk > > > > image with its universe of collaborating objects. Alan's definition of > > > > object-orientation fitted my Prokon model: "Thus its semantics are a > > > > bit > > > > like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by > > > > a > > > > very fast network." > > > > > > > > MVC prescribes a network of communicating objects. Any object can fill > > > > one or more positions in the network as long as it has the required > > > > behavior; their classes are irrelevant. It's so simple that it's not > > > > worth > > > > writing about it. > > > > > > > > > > > > ==================== > > > > > > > > The work on this post was interrupted at this point by an unexpected > > > > week > > > > in hospital. It gave me quiet days of pondering the futility of what I > > > > am > > > > doing and I will be terminating my memberships in the Pharo and Squeak > > > > mailing lists. I have also deleted most of the old draft of this > > > > message > > > > and will quickly conclude with two observations: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. > > > > The Smalltalk image is a universe of communicating objects. I call > > > > it > > > > an object computer. It can be seen as the model of an entirely new > > > > kind of > > > > computer, a model on a level closer to the human mind than the von > > > > Neumann > > > > model of 1948. The new model is communication-centric and should > > > > supersede > > > > the ubiquitous CPU-centric model as soon as possible. Working out > > > > the > > > > details of this idea could make an exciting and disruptive Ph.D. > > > > thesis. > > > > 2. > > > > Smalltalk is called a programming language. It is a curious one, > > > > very > > > > different from well-known languages like Java with their syntax and > > > > semantics. Smalltalk, as a programming language, does not have the > > > > concept > > > > of a program. Smalltalk, as a class-oriented language, does not have > > > > syntax > > > > for the declaration of a class. Smalltalk, as an object-oriented > > > > language, > > > > can't describe how objects collaborate to achieve a goal. You appear > > > > to be > > > > happy with this state of affairs, at least, I see no sign of anybody > > > > wanting to move on from the unfinished Smalltalk language to a > > > > mature > > > > development environment. I do not find it satisfactory and it is not > > > > acceptable to the intended managers populating the distributed > > > > system shown > > > > in the first picture. Consequently, I have done something about it > > > > as > > > > described in my SoSym article "*Personal Programming and the Object > > > > Computer.*" I am tired of being alone in my endeavors and this ends > > > > my work with Squeak and other Smalltalks. I wish you health and > > > > happiness > > > > wherever you happen to be. > > > > > > > > Trygve > > > > Personal programming and the object computerhttps://doi.org/10.1007/s10270-019-00768-3 > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to > > > > achieve a goal. * > > > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email]<%[hidden email]> <%[hidden email]>Morgedalsvn. 5A <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Morgedalsvn.+5A?entry=gmail&source=g> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > > > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to > > > > achieve > > > > a goal. * > > > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> <%[hidden email]>Morgedalsvn. 5A <https://www.google.com/maps/search/Morgedalsvn.+5A?entry=gmail&source=g> http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ > > > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve > > > > a goal. * > > > > Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] <%[hidden email]> > > > > Morgedalsvn. 5A http://heim.ifi.uio.no/trygver/ > > > > N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info > > > > > > > > > > > > Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > |
Re: [Board] Download of latest version of Loke/BabyIDE image? (was Re: A Sad Day ??? concluded)
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In reply to this post by David T. Lewis
> On 2020-11-05, at 6:46 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Fabio, > > CC Squeak oversight board who I expect will support this enthusiastically. Definitely. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: L: Lie! |
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In reply to this post by Hannes Hirzel
Hi,
I have a long and a short story. The short story is The BabyIDE image in now back on Mendeley https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 I have also written a user guide for all the programs in the image. I'm working on making both files available on the Squeak website (on GitHub). Cheers Trygve On 2020-11-04 16:41, H. Hirzel wrote:
Hello I was looking for the latest version of the Loke/BabyIDE image at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse Engineering (SRE), and more.)It is no longer available at this mendeley url as it is not a dataset but a program. Could somebody who has downloaded it please make it available on the squeak web site? Thank you Regards Hannes On 10/4/20, David T. Lewis [hidden email] wrote:Thank you Trygve, I confirm also that the image runs very well on my Ubuntu Linux laptop with a VM compiled per http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6354. Dave On Sat, Oct 03, 2020 at 07:56:43PM +0900, masato sumi wrote:Dear Trygve, I confirmed that I could launch the Loke/BabyIDE image with the included SqueakVM for Windows (8.1 and 10) and I could also launch it in a web browser by using the SqueakJS VM ( https://squeak.js.org/run ). Thank you very much. -- sumim 2020-10-03 15:48 Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email]:Dear Sumim, Thank you for your kind words. The latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 is at https://data.mendeley.com/datasets/5xxgzv7fsp/1 The image is my program repository. It includes some examples of DCI programming, Ellen's Personal Programming IDE, Squeak Reverse Engineering (SRE), and more. Best --Trygve On 2020-10-02 20:14, masato sumi wrote: Dear Trygve, Thank you for your very long term contribution and efforts. I'm very sorry that I couldn't help you at all now. I'm afraid, but could you please make your latest version of Loke/BabyIDE written on Squeak3.10.2 available for future generations of researchers and/or followers? Anyway, I think your ideas and thoughts should be passed on to future generations as faithfully as we can possible, and I myself will try to make sure that. Thank you so much and goodbye. Please take care of yourself. -- sumim 2020-10-03 0:54 Trygve Reenskaug [hidden email]:Dear all, I need to use many words to explore why I can't understand current Squeak code. I believe the reason is a profound one, and I hope some of you have the patience to read about it. Thank you for your responses to my 'A Sad Day'-message. One response said "*But please don't give up as an inventor of MVC, which has simplified writing software for all of us.* *We need new ideas to stabilize Smalltalk." *As to MVC, it was received with acclamation when I first presented it at PARC in 1978, and people suggested I should make it the theme of my article in the special Smalltalk issue of Byte. I couldn't understand it; MVC was so simple and obvious that is was not worth writing about it. Nevertheless, people seem to have problems understanding MVC. It took me a long time before I gleaned what was going on. The explanation is a deep one, rooted in our different mental paradigms. From around 1970, I was working on Prokon, a distributed system for managers in the shipbuilding industry: Every manager has their own computer that they use for augmenting their mind. The manager understands their software and ideally writes it themselves. Managers delegate conversations with other managers to their computer's M-to-M network. (Marked with a heavy black line in the figure). I chose "distributed planning with central control" as my example project. Each manager creates a plan for their department, using apps suited to their particular needs. A **distributed algorithm** ensures consistency across departments. I came to PARC in 1978 and could immediately relate to the Smalltalk image with its universe of collaborating objects. Alan's definition of object-orientation fitted my Prokon model: "Thus its semantics are a bit like having thousands and thousands of computers all hooked together by a very fast network." MVC prescribes a network of communicating objects. Any object can fill one or more positions in the network as long as it has the required behavior; their classes are irrelevant. It's so simple that it's not worth writing about it. ==================== The work on this post was interrupted at this point by an unexpected week in hospital. It gave me quiet days of pondering the futility of what I am doing and I will be terminating my memberships in the Pharo and Squeak mailing lists. I have also deleted most of the old draft of this message and will quickly conclude with two observations: 1. The Smalltalk image is a universe of communicating objects. I call it an object computer. It can be seen as the model of an entirely new kind of computer, a model on a level closer to the human mind than the von Neumann model of 1948. The new model is communication-centric and should supersede the ubiquitous CPU-centric model as soon as possible. Working out the details of this idea could make an exciting and disruptive Ph.D. thesis. 2. Smalltalk is called a programming language. It is a curious one, very different from well-known languages like Java with their syntax and semantics. Smalltalk, as a programming language, does not have the concept of a program. Smalltalk, as a class-oriented language, does not have syntax for the declaration of a class. Smalltalk, as an object-oriented language, can't describe how objects collaborate to achieve a goal. You appear to be happy with this state of affairs, at least, I see no sign of anybody wanting to move on from the unfinished Smalltalk language to a mature development environment. I do not find it satisfactory and it is not acceptable to the intended managers populating the distributed system shown in the first picture. Consequently, I have done something about it as described in my SoSym article "*Personal Programming and the Object Computer.*" I am tired of being alone in my endeavors and this ends my work with Squeak and other Smalltalks. I wish you health and happiness wherever you happen to be. Trygve Personal programming and the object computer https://doi.org/10.1007/s10270-019-00768-3 -- *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve a goal. * Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] [hidden email] Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625-- *The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborate to achieve a goal. * Trygve Reenskaug mailto: [hidden email] [hidden email] Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info Norway Tel: (+47) 468 58 625 --
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