Etoys developer chat log

Hi all,

almost missed the chat yesterday. And when I logged in I got distracted by #olpc-devel talk. A minute later David came back, but I didn't see that. Sorry.

But: If I'm not there, that's no reason not to chat :) Anybody can lead the discussion if it gets too disorganized, but usually we're pretty civilized, so it should rarely be necessary.

So here is a rule: Do not wait more than 15 minutes. Just start. I'll see it in the logs later so I can still post a summary (though it would be awesome if someone beat me to it).

Anyway, next chat is next Monday, same time as always:

        http://tinyurl.com/3ytdm3d

Hope you'll be there (and I'll try to attend too).

- Bert -

[21:02:37] --> Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
[21:05:08] --> dcorking (~dcorking@82.152.173.174) has joined #etoys
[21:05:13] <Richo2> hi
[21:06:06] <dcorking> hi Richo2 - when does the meeting start?
[21:07:36] <dcorking> is storybot down again?
[21:11:53] <Richo2> I think it should have started already
[21:13:09] <dcorking> I have only lurked in a couple of these.  bertf normally leads them doesn't he? Is randall travelling at the moment?
[21:13:31] --> scottwal (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
[21:17:00] <-- Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
[21:21:13] <bertf> hi folks - sorry I'm late
[21:21:26] <bertf> you could've started already ;)
[21:24:59] <bertf> dcorking: storybot has been down for months, and it's unlikely to come back
[21:25:12] <bertf> jecel was looking onto other logging options
[21:25:19] <bertf> for now I just email the logs manually
[21:26:18] <dcorking> shame: I guess a decision should be made and the link removed from http://squeakland.org/discuss/
[21:36:37] <dcorking> is the meeting starting?  if not, any thoughts on jecel's idea on porting Cog VM to the XO-1?
[21:38:46] <jecel> I was looking at the Cog sources to get an idea of how complex this would be. It seems doable, but not easy
[21:40:05] <dcorking> hmm.  Sounds like something that would distract the squeak experts from doing the next Sugar release on time, and not something for average smalltalkers.
[21:40:25] <jecel> About the logging, I didn't remember we had agreed that I would check the options and so haven't yet done so
[21:40:47] <dcorking> however, I wonder if qemu could be used to emulate the missing instructions: at least as a proof of concept
[22:07:44] <dcorking> is the meeting over?
[22:10:43] <dcorking> does the showcase still give trouble when a user uploads a new version of an existing project?
[23:47:14] <-- dcorking (~dcorking@82.152.173.174) has quit (Quit: Leaving)

Well,

scheduling the chat at the same time as a FIFA World Cup game wasn't that bright an idea ;)

Hilaire said hello, and Milan stopped by briefly. We didn't talk much, so no log today.

I will probably be unable to attend next Monday's chat. But it's at the same time as always:

        http://tinyurl.com/28d24a5

There is no World Cup match, so come and chat!

- Bert -

Hi all,

participance is ramping up again :) We talked about a variety of issue, including

* feature freeze has been extended to this weekend by the Sugar folks:
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.90/Roadmap
* what changes to include before alpha release
* in particular, contributions by Jerome and Ricardo
* how to get QuickGuides working

Full log below.

Hope to see you next Monday, at 12 noon Squeakland Time as usual:

        http://tinyurl.com/34k9xmx

- Bert -

--> peace (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<bertf> ah ... jerome?
<peace> yep
<bertf> nice to see you :)
<peace> good to finally get the timing right
--> karlram (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<bertf> you're on Eastern time right?
<bertf> Hi Karl
<karlram> hi
--> Ted_Kaehler (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<peace> 3pm dst
<karlram> it's been a slow summer with little etoys work form me
<bertf> well, for all of us it seems :)
<karlram> :-)
<karlram> how was etoys camp
<bertf> I have only started again this weekend
<karlram> any feedback
<bertf> squeakfest was small but nice
<karlram> whats left to do before realease ?
--> ritaf (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
*** Mode #etoys +v ritaf by ChanServ
<bertf> well, actually bundling up everything
<ritaf> hi
<bertf> like the translated quickguides
<peace> what stage is the release in. Whats frozen? What can be added/fixed?
<bertf> ritaf: karlram asked about feedback from Squeakfest
<karlram> we add buf fixes
<karlram> bug fixes :-)
<bertf> peace: no big changes anymore, no new features. it's "feature freeze"
<peace> ah/ can that include retargeting of sliders and buttons?
<ritaf> karlram: bert told us how to submit bugs,
<bertf> peace: yes, that code has long been written so can still get in
<ritaf> and the educators want help testing new versions
<ritaf> we also talked about Richos work, it would be great to have some of his things in the new version.l
<peace> that will be good. it will open up large possibilities.
<bertf> peace: also, the freeze is not absolute. if we feel an imporvement is high impact and low risk we can still take it in
<bertf> it's just that we should not add big new untested features right until the release is out
<peace> Well, the other thing in that category is some patches to the current gif reader
<bertf> well bug fixes can get in longer than features
<karlram> peace: I added quite a few of your gif fixes
<peace> karlram: cool
<bertf> peace: we're following the SUagr release cycle, as OLPC is our largest user base: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.90/Roadmap
<bertf> s/SUagr/Sugar/
<karlram> peacew:http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-597
<bertf> peace: have you tried a current dev version?
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler is working on bringing the QuickGuides in
<peace> bertf: thats a good question. I think I've downloaded one but not unpacked it. Nor played.
<karlram> quickguides will be nice :-)
<bertf> peace: at least soem of your stuff is in
<peace> it's good to here about the anigif patches. The targeting stuff would be enough for this round.
<karlram> ritaf: nice if educators con help test stuff and give suggestions
<bertf> I'd like the smooth curves to get in (SQ-211)
<ritaf> I was thinking if we should add a link to the beta-version on the downloads page
<peace> eventually I would like to see the new anigif stuff get in. With that I can pretty well render most gifs on the web.
<ritaf> then anyone can easily find and test the beta-version
<bertf> ritaf: yes, once we have it. we're jsut figuring out what needs to be done to make an alpha/beta release
<bertf> so far there are only developer versions of 4.1, not for users
<karlram> SQ-211 is quite big and a little too late for release ?
<bertf> nah, if you look at the roadmap the Sugar folks changed feature freeze to Aug 16
<bertf> That's the enxt weekend
<karlram> Ok :-)
<bertf> usually people get more active when freezes are over, which is one point of having them ;)
<karlram> peace: are you using Monticello now ?
<bertf> so we need to collect stuff that has been implemented, and push it. and get all missing bits in place.
<peace> for a very few things. My mc-fu is quite small.
<karlram> peace: it can grow fast :-)
<bertf> peace: we also take changesets, but MC is less work for us
<ritaf> did richo put more things in the inbox? we would like tpo have graphing and bubbles in the next version
<bertf> yes that's in the onbox
<bertf> inbox
<ritaf> that's what the educators would like to have
<bertf> however, I have not heard feedback from the other developers
<bertf> I looked at it and did not like the code very much
<peace> the changesets for the targeting stuff exist.
<bertf> scottwal: did you have a look?
<scottwal> sorry, did not.
<bertf> scottwal: the issue I see is that there are a lot of Player subclasses
<bertf> basically, a new Player for each new Morph
<bertf> do you think that could be a problem down the road?
<scottwal> Doesn't Kedama also have a lot of custom Player subclasses?
<scottwal> Oh, I see, different issue.
<scottwal> It's just the proliferation of uniclasses, "whether needed or not"?
<bertf> actual classes
<bertf> when a user substitutes a receiver in a script with a different player, it will break. The canonical way is to add the methods to a single player, and then check if the costume is the one you expect.
<bertf> we used to have all methods for all different morph just in Player I thought
<Ted_Kaehler> Not sure what you mean.
<bertf> karlram: have you looked at it by chance?
<scottwal> yes, except for KedamaExamplerPlayer, KedamaTurtleVectorPlayer etc.
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: when you use a tile specific to say Sketch and then change the receiver to a Holder it will still work
<bertf> because all tile methods are implemented in Player
<Ted_Kaehler> A holder containing a sketch?
<bertf> no. just replaceing the receiver tile with some other player
<scottwal> so certainly we've always strived to have a "single root player class" rather than custom explicit Player subclasses, for just the reason Bert says...
<Ted_Kaehler> yes, as long as the methods are really in Player.
<scottwal> Does Dr Geo have idiosyncratic Player subclasses
<scottwal> ?
-*- bertf looks
<bertf> scottwal: no, it adds methods to Player
<scottwal> so unless there's a good reason in the code in question to have Player subclasses, probably it's better not to.
<bertf> There are only two non-Kedama Player subclasses specific to a Morph
<scottwal> (However, the "power of working code" might be a good reason.)
<bertf> that's CardPlayer (for stacks I assume) and Component (Fabrik?)
<scottwal> right.  both of them dead ends...
<bertf> but they had good reasons to extend the Player model
<scottwal> yes
<bertf> to subclass it I mean
<scottwal> right
<bertf> in Richo's code I don't see a good reason.
<bertf> guess I;ll have to send an email :)
<bertf> also, he added #to:
<scottwal> #to: to what?
<bertf> Point
<bertf> which could have any number of meanings IMHO
<scottwal> and which meaning did he implement?
<peace> bertf: does it mean the difference between two points?
<bertf> I'll have to look again, sec
<bertf> no, it creates an instance of Vector
<scottwal> yikes
<bertf> which is a new class jsut holding two points. then there is a VectorMorph as subclass of PolygonMorph
<bertf> used for line segments in charts I think
<bertf> the points on a chart are a SketchMorph subclass
<bertf> so there is a PointMorph and a PointPlayer. IMHO it's better to just use exostign classes
<scottwal> bertf:  your advice about coding is always graciously given and always well taken.
<peace> bertf: PointMorph is an important missing concept.
<bertf> too bad we did not really point out the implementaion flaws earlier
<Ted_Kaehler> about Quickguides...
<bertf> peace: how so?
<scottwal> is it really too late?
<bertf> scottwal: no, but because nobody complained, he used this style throughout his work
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: yes?
<peace> bertf: things get built out of points, Morph skiped that and started with rectangles. Bug abound.
<Ted_Kaehler> I have etoys-dev 2379, Jun2010, then fully updated, and Quickguides do not work.
<Ted_Kaehler> The index page shows, but no buttons work there.
<Ted_Kaehler> It may be the new index translating code.
<Ted_Kaehler> Any hints before I plunge in to find out what is wrong?
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: I get an error in makeCategoryMenu:
<Ted_Kaehler> yes.
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: but I have not looked deeply yet
<bertf> PagesForCategory should have been filled
<Ted_Kaehler> yes.
<bertf> maybe because the index.txt is missing?
<Ted_Kaehler> that's a good hint.
<peace> bertf: meant bugs abound.  From the center handle never staying in place to poor bounds tracking for tilted morphs.
<Ted_Kaehler> Is there one available, or do I need to create it?
<bertf> OTOH neither buildDefaultIndex nor loadIndex is called
<bertf> peace: agreed. though that's not what Richo's PointMorph is about
<Ted_Kaehler> those may be at prep-time only.
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: I think you need to make it yourself
<bertf> I hope Korakurider will chime in soonish :)
<Ted_Kaehler> yes
<peace> bertf: yes. But iirc Ricoh was making something work in its own domain. So he made stuff for that. Integrating into the general system is now the problem.
<bertf> peace: precisely
<bertf> I'll also point out that for general inclusion, GSoC is not a good class name prefix
<bertf> also, some more stuff is sitting in the inbox
<bertf> like my timer code
<bertf> and a morph drop handler
<bertf> and karlram's world geometry tiles
<bertf> any opinion on these?
<Ted_Kaehler> Is there an easy way to make all fonts smaller in the dev image?
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: I guess you want to disable screen scaling, and then there is a doit, let me check
<bertf> hmm, no. you could change the sizes in restoreDefaultFonts and execute the doit
<Ted_Kaehler> no scaling helped.
<Ted_Kaehler> There sure seems to be some code missing for the Guides.  How did this get in with no testing?
<bertf> we are abut to test now
<bertf> about
<Ted_Kaehler> ok.  certainly buildDefaultIndex needs to be called.  I'll be quiet now and see what I can do.
<bertf> no need to be quiet, but thank you for looking into it :)
<bertf> karlram: did you look at the Camera code by chance?
--> hilaire (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<bertf> well, okay. let's continue by email. Thanks everybody for stopping by! See you next week, same time!
<hilaire> ah, just in time
<bertf> hilaire: hey, what's up? :)
<hilaire> not mutch
<hilaire> Arriving at the end :)
<bertf> did you get any more feedback on your xo bundle?
<hilaire> not directly to the bundle
<hilaire> but a math teacher involved in XO for Philippine contacted me
<hilaire> just to say thank you
<hilaire> John Sincak
<bertf> nice :)
<Ted_Kaehler> Execute (QuickGuideMorph buildDefaultIndex), then open the guides, and they work.
<bertf> hilaire: do you think you could make an example project for us explaining a bit about Dr Geo?
<hilaire> The work on DrGeo with a feature complete UI was really badly need, and I am glad I did it.
<bertf> yes, looking forward to have that in etoys too :)
<bertf> Ted_Kaehler: the english ones I guess. All of them?
<hilaire> bertf: I can, but someone else should do it. I don't mean people from Squeakland, but people already using it.
<bertf> hilaire: if you get someone else to do it, sure. must be MIT though, not GPL
<hilaire> I see in the web use cases of DrGeo in south america, but when I ask feedback I receive none.
<bertf> that's the same everywhere
<ritaf> hilaire: the feedback is always a problem
<bertf> are you using Firefox?
<ritaf> hilaire: do you remember names of people using it?
<hilaire> the people should get educated to feedback and giving back also
<hilaire> ritaf: no, I saw in a page a big poster full of DrGeo use case
<bertf> Anyone using Firefox should give the Firefox developers feedback. Few do.
<hilaire> ritaf: http://community.ofset.org/index.php/File:Drgeo-ceilbal1.jpg
<hilaire> ritaf: it is from ceibal
<ritaf> this is ceibal, I'll ask Carlos
<hilaire> ritaf: yes, I am curious

Hi all,

we had only one topic on Monday, about how to make Etoys user-extendable. Ideas welcome.

Full log below.

Hope to see you next Monday, at 12 noon Squeakland Time as usual:

        http://tinyurl.com/38ycqkw

- Bert -

--> scottwal (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
--> MrSteve (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<bertf> hi MrSteve
<MrSteve> hi Bert
<MrSteve> Thanks for the solution to centering text
<bertf> you're welcome. it's still abug that it does not work for small widths
<MrSteve> Agreed, but in the grand scheme of things a minor one, looks like there is a minimum width
<bertf> yes. text is unbelievably tricky
<MrSteve> at least for now?
<MrSteve> Oops, type
<MrSteve> typo
<MrSteve> Regarding "packaging up" solutions, does Ricardo's Morph I/O fill the need or do you see issues with that approach?
<bertf> well saving morphs has been there forever
<MrSteve> So Ricardo's solution just makes it easier to discover?
<MrSteve> And scriptable
<bertf> scriptable, yes
<bertf> whcih is not what you want for "packaging up solutions"
<bertf> I still think there is no need to stray from projects as the main etoys file format
<bertf> but there could be a "merge objects from that project into this"
<bertf> which would just load those other objects into the current project
<MrSteve> Thinking Out Loud: So say I have a set of "Tools" I have built and want to re-use . . .
<MrSteve> Never ming let me think about it for a while
<MrSteve> typo: mind
<bertf> One thing I pondered was allowing customized home screens
<bertf> that is, just load it from a project
<bertf> that could have the tools you want.
<MrSteve> For example, and for what purposes/problems you want to solve?
<MrSteve> Ah
<MrSteve> I was thinking being able to add to the Object Catalog a set of tools where you can add your own category
<bertf> "tools"?
<MrSteve> One second someone walked into my office
<MrSteve> Tools, in my mind translates to morph/set of morphs
<MrSteve> My apologies, I need to run, my boss is out and I have delegation and need to take care of some issues
<MrSteve> Thanks
--> Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<-- Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
--> Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<-- Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
--> Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<Richo2> hi
<Richo2> have you finished the meeting?
<bertf> hi Richo2
<-- Richo2 (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
<-- MrSteve (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (EOF))
<-- scottwal (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: scottwal)

Hi all,

I've been lazy in posting chat logs, sorry about that. I did ask the Sugarlabs folks to log the etoys channel too, though, so it might appear on http://jita.sugarlabs.org/ soonish ...

Anyway, we had a good discussion today, it helped that this Monday was a holiday in some places :)

We talked about:

* the upcoming release in general, which looks good, no blockers that are not easy to fix:
  http://tracker.squeakland.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10470
* however, we discovered some issues with the windows installer
* also, copy&paste of images

We should build a release candidate this week. That leaves us 2 weeks for testing before the actual release on Sep 27.

Full log below.

Hope to see you next Monday, at 12 noon Squeakland Time as usual:

        http://tinyurl.com/3ypbo2c

- Bert -

<bander> hi
<jecel> hello
--> CaseyR (~caseyr@166.205.143.29) has joined #etoys
<kencausey> Hi
<bertf> hi
<bertf> nice to see you all :)
<bander> holiday :-)
<CaseyR> How's the release coming?
<bertf> we're a few days away from the first release candidate
<bertf> no blockers at the moment
<CaseyR> Right on!
<bertf> bugs yes, but well :)
<CaseyR> Heh
<CaseyR> Aren't there always.
<jecel> It is a holiday in Brazil as well (tomorrow, actually) so no class for me today
<bertf> awesome. I figured someone might stop by :)
<CaseyR> I'm loose of work, too:)
<bertf> actually there are two blockers, but they are trivial to fix
<bertf> http://tracker.squeakland.org/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?mode=hide&requestId=10540
<bertf> so no real obstacle to the release
<bander> Do you need help with any of these?
<bertf> looking ...
<saijanai_> is squekland.org server down?
<bertf> saijanai_: no, but I see only half of its contents
<bertf> http://squeakland.org/
<kencausey> Who is responsible for that site now?
<CaseyR> Looks like it's restarting to me.
<bertf> bander: http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-779 or http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-778 look interesting and would be nice to have fixed
<bertf> kencausey: still Immuexa / Tim Falconer
<kencausey> ok
<bertf> bander: incidentally, does copy/pasting images work under Windows? I never checked I think
<bander> Not that I know of
<bertf> bander: I though we had the ExtendedClipboardPlugin on Windows too
<bander> It's not in http://squeakvm.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/trunk/platforms/win32/plugins/
<bander> Where would it be if not there?
<bertf> maybe I misremember. It works on Mac and Unix.
<bertf> hmm, Sophie surely supported it
<bander> Probably all FFI hacks
<kencausey> What is meant by 'copy and paste images'?  What sort of image do we mean?
<bander> Graphics
<bertf> kencausey: bitmaps
<kencausey> OK
<kencausey> I think drag and drop works on Windows
<bertf> kencausey: on the Mac I can get the halo on any object, type Cmd-C, switch apps and paste
<kencausey> ah, so images out of Squeak...
<bertf> and into, too. webbroser - copy - squeak - paste
<bander> Yes, DnD of images works fine, but not C&P
-*- bander is on a very slow connection it seems
<bertf> on unix we can even drag objects out of squeak :)
<bertf> used to work anyway, haven't checked in a while
<bertf> so I don't know about C&P on Windows, I don't see a plugin in Sophie either. maybe they used FFI
<bertf> another issues to work on would be loading fonts from file to make the image smaller, but I think it's too late for that in the release cycle
<bertf> the code is in but not used yet
<bander> Did you see my post in the trunk?
<bertf> yes, was glad to see it :)
<bertf> bander: testing the windows installer would be great too
<bertf> http://etoys.squeak.org/download/
<bertf> it's only for alpha 1 so not the latest image but maybe check if you see something odd
<bander> Will do but I can only run it on Win7; I don't have anything earlier.
<bertf> as well as the beta-to-go which includes a windows VM too
<bertf> bander: understood
<bertf> korakurider did that one, hopefully it works :)
<bertf> so the best thing if you want to help would be testing the beta
<bertf> and see if anything terrible happens ;)
<bander> I don't see an installer at http://etoys.squeak.org/download/
<bertf> the zip file with "win" in its name?
<bertf> first one
<bander> Oh, sorry. Was looking for something called "installer" :-)
<bertf> ah. but zip is okay?
<bander> I'll let you know once I downloaded it :-)
-*- bertf doesn't know zilch about windows conventions
<bertf> I did not have time yet to build a Mac installer
<bertf> and for the linux distros other people are packaging it as part of Sugar :)
<bander> bertf: The installer shouldn't be wrapped inside a zip; it should either be the .exe for the download or the .msi
<bertf> okay
<bertf> is it just ine file inside?
<bander> Yup.
<bander> EToysInstaller.exe
<bertf> I see
<bertf> capital T?
<bander> Installer shows Apache-L only?
<bander> No, lower-case t, i.e., EtoysInstaller.exe
<bertf> ah, good :)
--> scottwal (~[hidden email]) has joined #etoys
<bander> Seems to launch fine
<bertf> should probably show http://etoys.squeak.org/svn/trunk/Etoys/NOTICE instead?
<bander> Hm...
<bander> Every time I launch it recomputes security keys; then has some flash of "PrimitiveFailed"
<bertf> ugh, bad
<bander> Fails to create a directory
<bertf> cmd-shift-w
<bertf> go back to top project
<bander> fullPath: 'C:\Program Files (x86)\Etoys\Resources\andreas'
<bertf> that does not look right
<bertf> should be in home dir
<bander> Looks like it's trying to write something into the installation directory
<bertf> so secure directory is not set correctly
<bander> Yes, looks like it; where is this stored?
<bertf> don't know really :(
<bertf> whereever apps store preferences?
<bertf> you might try tghe Etoys 4 installer, this should use the same dirs
<bander> In the registry? ;-)
<bertf> argh, website bad http://squeakland.org/download/
<bertf> bander: no, cache files etc
<bander> Okay, this is officially weird.
<bander> I have *both* Etoys.exe as well as Etoys.app in C:\Program Files (x86)\Etoys
<kencausey> \Documents and Settings\{user}\Application Data\?
<bander> I.e., it looks like a complete duplicate install
<bertf> FileWrite $0 "SecureDirectory=$\"%APPDATA%\etoys$\"$\r$\n"
<bertf> FileWrite $0 "SecureDirectory=$\"%USERPROFILE%\AppData\LocalLow\etoys$\"$\r$\n"
<bander> Let me try this from first principles, perhaps I had a version installed and it didn't like installing it on top of the prior version
<bertf> those two lines are in the installer script
<kencausey> LocalLow?
<bander> I don't see an Etoys.ini anywhere
<bertf> kencausey: may refer to vista security levels? I really have no idea though
<bander> Yes, it does. The location is fine.
<bander> There's just no Etoys.ini anywhere
<bertf> bander: no idea. I dimly remember some discussion a tyear a go but didn't pay attention
<bander> Yeah, the problem is clearly the missing Etoys.ini in the install.
<bertf> okay
<bander> And it doesn't like installing on top of a prior install.
<bertf> it should leave the old install alone and install to an etoys41 folder
<bertf> redirect the browser plugin to the new location of course
<bertf> but otherwise keep the old working
<bander> It did not install into etoys41; it installed into C:\Program Files (x86)\Etoys (where I already had an install)
<bertf> well, Korakurider will read the log and respond I'm sure
<bander> Then for the records: This is Win7
<bertf> yes we haven't really discussed what the behavior should be wrt the old versions
<bertf> but I think not touching the old is better
<bertf> on the mac it's going to be an "Etoys 4.1" folder
<bertf> here's the old windows7 thread  http://lists.squeakland.org/pipermail/etoys-dev/2009-March/003037.html
<-- bander (~[hidden email]) has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout))
<bertf> well, thanks for testing! and thanks to everyone who came by here today :)

On 06.09.2010, at 22:30, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> I did ask the Sugarlabs folks to log the etoys channel too, though, so it might appear on http://jita.sugarlabs.org/ soonish ...

The #etoys channel is now logged 24/7. Everyone can see the logs here:

http://jita.sugarlabs.org/freenode/%23etoys/index.html

E.g. the Etoys manual booksprint chat that's going on right now can be seen at

http://jita.sugarlabs.org/freenode/%23etoys/%23etoys.2010-09-08.log.html#t2010-09-08T19:13:26

Note that this is a temporary location. If you want to bookmark, this would be better:

        http://etoys.squeak.org/chat/

Thanks to Aleksey Lim for setting this up!

The log bot appears as user "sugaroid", it can also assist in taking meeting notes (*).

As a normal chat participant you don't have to deal with the bot, simply chat as usual. Just be aware everything you type will appear in the web logs. The channel topic mentions the logging now.

And btw, the channel is open any time, you can always use it even when there is no scheduled chat :)

- Bert -

(*) http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html