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dcorking

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

Can you help me set priorities for evaluating the possibility that a
future Etoys version could be adapted for interactive whiteboards?

In a few days time, I hope to get an hour in an empty classroom with
one of these boards. I imagine that some of the difficulties will be
similar to those Bert reported with touch screens. My plan is to use
the time to start drafting a list of interface changes that will be
needed before teachers and students can use Etoys comfortably on
whiteboards.

I will take Etoys to Go 4.1.1, and also
* Bert's image for iSqueak
http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/etoys-touch-image-100620.zip
* Steve's cuisenaire rods http://squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10356
* Something with TweakUI, such as Croquet or Open Cobalt
(I will also take Sugar-on-a-Stick but I don't expect it to work, as
I'm told the Smartboard boards need a proprietary Windows driver.)

I will try out
* Halo buttons
* Paint
* Tile scripting controls
* Navigator bar

But I will also try to understand the whiteboard controls, as I have
never used one.

** What else would you like me to include in my tests? What is the
most important? **

My time is limited, so my tests will be brief, not thorough, and will
omit many of the things I want to try.

(I don't know who will design and implement the changes, but at least
a list is one useful step.)

Best, David

dcorking

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:58 AM, Steve Thomas wrote (resending to list):

> I tried it on a whiteboard and here is what I recall.
> Getting the right click took a while to figure out. If you know the model #
> and version of the software you can ?download the manual before you start
> your tests. ?There should be a way as I recall to setup "multiple finger
> touch" to "right click" and get the halo, but I also recall it required some
> setup time and if time is limited there is a?two touch method where I
> touched something in the smartboard's?palette?that made my next touch a
> right click.
> One thing you will notice as well is that depending on the placement of the
> projector you can block the image if you are in the wrong spot (between the
> projector and a particular section of the screen you want to see/touch.
> One of the difficulties I believe Bert had was being able to touch the thing
> you want for small objects on a small screen. ?On a white board the "screen
> size" is rather large and most objects were large enough that I do not
> recall having that problem.
> I may be able to get access to a Smartboard again for some more test.
> Another thought you may want to try to give yourself more time is setup a
> WiiMote Whiteboard?http://johnnylee.net/projects/wii/ all you need is a projector and a Wii Remote. ?If you
> don't have a projector you can also use it on your monitor.

Thanks for the tips, Steve.

I most expect to encounter trouble with "hover" actions, such as
balloon helps, and the "is under mouse" tile.

I will experiment with the palette and with multi-touch for right
click if I get time.

I think the only use of right-click is to make halos appear, but I may
be wrong. Maybe there is another interaction style someone can dream
up for halos.

The most exciting possibility to me is to see two or more students
work on an Etoys world at the same time. Bert mentions multiple
pointers in his video. (The classroom will be empty so I won't see
students this time, but I do have two hands!)

David

Bert Freudenberg

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

On 25.02.2011, at 05:22, David Corking wrote:

> The most exciting possibility to me is to see two or more students
> work on an Etoys world at the same time. Bert mentions multiple
> pointers in his video. (The classroom will be empty so I won't see
> students this time, but I do have two hands!)

I doubt that Smartboard actually supports multi-touch. And even if it did, Etoys would have to be modified to support it, just like I did for the iPad version.

- Bert -

dcorking

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> I doubt that Smartboard actually supports multi-touch. And even if it did, Etoys would
> have to be modified to support it, just like I did for the iPad version.

OK - I won't make multitouch a priority. I think that maintaining
image patches (and perhaps even vm patches) for numerous brands of
multitouch devices may become a bit of a headache for Squeak/Etoys
community coordination.

Bert Freudenberg

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

On 25.02.2011, at 09:23, David Corking wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>
>> I doubt that Smartboard actually supports multi-touch. And even if it did, Etoys would
>> have to be modified to support it, just like I did for the iPad version.
>
> OK - I won't make multitouch a priority. I think that maintaining
> image patches (and perhaps even vm patches) for numerous brands of
> multitouch devices may become a bit of a headache for Squeak/Etoys
> community coordination.

We have managed to support all devices and operating systems with a single image so far. There is no need to worry that would not be possible in the future. The patches only have not been integrated because multi-touch is still in its early stages of support.

But as far as I know, Smartboard only emulates a multi-button mouse, not a multi-touch device. If you know otherwise, what protocol are they using?

OTOH, a Wii-remote based white board would support multi-touch. That might be a fun project to explore.

- Bert -

Steve Thomas

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

In reply to this post by dcorking

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 8:22 AM, David Corking <lists at dcorking.com> wrote:

>
> The most exciting possibility to me is to see two or more students
> work on an Etoys world at the same time. Bert mentions multiple
> pointers in his video. (The classroom will be empty so I won't see
> students this time, but I do have two hands!)
>

So one project I designed with a multi-touch wii-mote in mind is Chaos Game
v 2 <http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444> has a flap at
the bottom "My Notes" which if you read through was part of my talk at
squeakfest. Page 2 has a "two player" version where multiple kids can be at
the board, pull up the flap to see the rest of the notes.

Stephen
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dcorking

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

In reply to this post by Bert Freudenberg

Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> But as far as I know, Smartboard only emulates a multi-button mouse, not a
> multi-touch device. If you know otherwise, what protocol are they using?

As far as open protocols you are probably correct.

The latest SMART brand products apparently support multiple simultaneous users.

http://www.smarttech.com/us/Support/Browse+Support/Product+Index/Hardware+Products/Front+Projection+SMART+Board+Interactive+Whiteboard/800ix+system

However (a) these won't be common in schools for many years and (b) I
imagine applications need to use SMART's proprietary API (called
'Digital Ink' I think): at least there is no mention otherwise in the
user guide I downloaded.

(Maybe users of other brands of board have more luck. I conclude that
mouse emulation by proprietary boards is the lowest common factor,
and for that reason it is useful to investigate.)

I have a single touch tablet computer with a 75 mm (3 inch) screen
that I will experiment with one day - though I think it will never be
practical for Etoys to support a finger on such a tiny screen. Stylus
operation is reasonable.

Netbook tablets with open protocols are probably the most important. I
imagine we will get open protocols from the XO 1.75 and XO 3 :
presumably commercial pressure will grow for other hardware vendors to
support that protocol. Multiplayer activities on a single tablet
screen may not be fertile ground to plough.

David

dcorking

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

In reply to this post by Steve Thomas

Steve Thomas wrote:
> So one project I designed with a multi-touch wii-mote in mind is Chaos Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444
...
> Page 2 has a "two player" version where multiple
> kids can be at the board,

That is quite beautiful (though I still managed to pick ugly colours
on page 5 :( ) I didn't not imagine the scripts for the random
simulation would be so brief.

Even though multiplayer won't work, I will burn it on my CD to take to
school. I hope every group with a wiimote whiteboard plays this! (I
imagine that it could also be adapted for Nebraska shared worlds one
day.)

Best, David

Steve Thomas

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 6:22 AM, David Corking <lists at dcorking.com> wrote:

> Steve Thomas wrote:
> > So one project I designed with a multi-touch wii-mote in mind is Chaos
> Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444
> I didn't not imagine the scripts for the random
> simulation would be so brief.
>
Credit for the scripts go to Kazuhiro Abe who posted Sierepinski
Gasket here<http://squeakland.jp/seaside/SBSuperSwiki/bc057ef8-aacb-40a8-a990-14951d8c12e3?_s=oOBTigsCHXdGvMCB&_k=MEXSyPiI>

>
> Even though multiplayer won't work,

More accurately multi-touch will not work on a SmartBoard. Multi-player
should still be fine, other than when two or more kids touch the board at
the same time. Then I imagine that when they don't get a response they will
simply touch again.

Stephen
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dcorking

Etoys on an interactive whiteboard?

On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 3:51 AM, Steve Thomas wrote:

(about Chaos Game v 2 http://www.squeakland.org/showcase/project.jsp?id=10444 )

>> Even though multiplayer won't work,
>
> More accurately multi-touch will not work on a SmartBoard. ?Multi-player
> should still be fine, other than when two or more kids touch the board at
> the same time. Then I imagine that when they don't get a response they will
> simply touch again.

Of course - thanks for clarifying. I imagined the same think after I
wrote that. Lets find out what happens when someone tests it under
pressure of two teams of enthusiastic gamers. It seems very unlikely
indeed (to me) that there would be problems playing the game on page 2
with a single-touch device :)

David

(p.s. another alternative for a classroom with multiple computers
would be to share the toy in a Croquet/OpenCobalt world.)