FW: [Board] Re: Concerns about 3.11

> I feel like I should let you know that I'm concerned about 3.11 and I
> don't think I'm alone in this.  It seems we have not learned from the
> mistakes of the past and learned that communication is the primary skill
> that release teams need to succeed.  It is my belief that if Keith
> continues as he has that 3.11 has no hope of success.  I've argued with
> him over and over and it seems like we just don't speak the same
> language.
>
> As an example I would like to suggest that you read through the exchange
> that occurs starting at 14:23:24 at
>
> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/09.02.20
>
> I'm just not sure how to proceed and at this point I don't think Keith
> and I really hear each other anymore.
>
> Ken

> Aunque me gane el odio eterno y voten todos en contra mia, este tipo  
> de
> cosas se deben saber.
>
> Si alguno escuchara lo que vengo diciendo hace mas de dos años...
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: Andreas Raab <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: SqueakFoundation Board Discussion
> <[hidden email]>
> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:34:26 -0800
> To: Ken Causey <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Matthew Fulmer <[hidden email]>, Keith Hodges
> <[hidden email]>, Squeak Leadership Team
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Board] Re: Concerns about 3.11
>
> Hi Ken -
>
> Thanks for including me on this message. I really appreciate it. I do
> feel like talking out of my behind though since I don't know what  
> prior
> communication between the 3.11 release team and the board happened. So
> take what I'm saying here with a grain of salt.
>
> From my perspective, there are several parts to this discussion. One  
> is
> the organization of the release team and how its internal  
> communication
> structure works. As long as the release team is able to communicate
> internally, I don't care very much about what is being said. If the
> release team is not able to communicate internally, well that's a
> problem. I am not certain if this is the case or not. Looking at
> http://installer.pbwiki.com/Squeak311 I do not see anyone noted as
> project lead but given that Randal is listed with the responsibilities
> of "Wisdom, Guidance, and Discipline" it seems to me that you all  
> might
> want to lean on his guidance a bit more heavily.
>
> Secondly, there is external communication. Here, I would put the blame
> squarely with the board (as an organizational body, not as  
> individuals).
> The board is either not exercising proper supervision of the release
> team, or it is not communicating itself. If someone asks on Squeak-dev
> what the status of a release is, I expect the answer to primarily come
> from the board. Simply having no answer or having an answer that says
> "ask the release team" is not good enough from my perspective.
> Obviously, this is exactly the kind of thing I would like to change if
> elected.
>
> I agree that there is a real danger that 3.11 may fail. This is  
> largely
> why I have been such a pest about finding out where things stand,  
> trying
> to get people to cut on features and rather get out what's ready. On  
> the
> other hand, I think a lot of significant progress has been made. It is
> just not very visible (see above).
>
> To me, the biggest problem is that even after spending significant  
> time
> trying to understand the 3.11 release I have absolutely no clue how  
> far
> along we are before we might be able to say 3.11 is released. I just
> don't know; it could be four weeks or it could be eight months (the
> confusing naming conventions do not help either).
>
> However, I can see that some serious work has and is being done but I
> just don't know how the pieces fit together. Consequently, it seems to
> me that clarity of what it means to release 3.11, where that process
> stands and how far away we are from having something is the most
> important issue. I would appreciate any insight that the 3.11 release
> team can provide - and perhaps someone can wager a guess for a release
> schedule with tentative dates so that we can begin to get a feel for  
> how
> much work remains to be done.
>
> Cheers,
> - Andreas
>
> Ken Causey wrote:
> > I feel like I should let you know that I'm concerned about 3.11  
> and I
> > don't think I'm alone in this. It seems we have not learned from the
> > mistakes of the past and learned that communication is the primary  
> skill
> > that release teams need to succeed. It is my belief that if Keith
> > continues as he has that 3.11 has no hope of success. I've argued  
> with
> > him over and over and it seems like we just don't speak the same
> > language.
> >
> > As an example I would like to suggest that you read through the  
> exchange
> > that occurs starting at 14:23:24 at
> >
> > http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/squeak/09.02.20
> >
> > I'm just not sure how to proceed and at this point I don't think  
> Keith
> > and I really hear each other anymore.
> >
> > Ken
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
>