Hi everyone,
I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. Cheers. Uko |
We had this idea with Marcus, and I think it’s nice :)
What would fit in that is if n gold-members vote for an issue as ‘week fixed’ then it’s automatically integrated :)
Ben On 04 Nov 2013, at 00:26, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi everyone, |
On 04 Nov 2013, at 07:40, Benjamin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, true. But my idea was originally oriented on bigger scales. For example to see that community want’s traits improvements over git integration, or vice versa. I think that Jet Brains has something like that. Uko
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In reply to this post by Uko2
> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: > > Hi everyone, > > I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) > > But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: - I like it - I need it really - I like or need it and will spend time doing it Norbert |
On 2013-11-04, at 08:56, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: > > >> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) >> >> But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. > > I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: > > - I like it > - I need it really > - I like or need it and will spend time doing it signature.asc (457 bytes) Download Attachment |
On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:04, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 2013-11-04, at 08:56, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> >> >>> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) >>> >>> But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. >> >> I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: >> >> - I like it >> - I need it really >> - I like or need it and will spend time doing it > > yes, the "I am willing to contribute" is important! or even, “I am willing to pay" |
I think that if we want to have it, we have to make something simple with an option to create ideas and simple voting. If it will be used then we can extend it.
Uko On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote: > > On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:04, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> >> On 2013-11-04, at 08:56, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >>>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) >>>> >>>> But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. >>> >>> I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: >>> >>> - I like it >>> - I need it really >>> - I like or need it and will spend time doing it >> >> yes, the "I am willing to contribute" is important! > > or even, “I am willing to pay" > > |
In reply to this post by Sven Van Caekenberghe-2
> Am 04.11.2013 um 09:15 schrieb Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]>: > > >> On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:04, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >>> On 2013-11-04, at 08:56, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >>>> >>>> Hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) >>>> >>>> But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. >>> >>> I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: >>> >>> - I like it >>> - I need it really >>> - I like or need it and will spend time doing it >> >> yes, the "I am willing to contribute" is important! > > or even, “I am willing to pay" > Gets more important every day as I don't find time for contributing. Norbert |
In reply to this post by Uko2
I don't think our community ever lacked of ideas. It is primarily time/contributed work that is missing. It is too easy to have a quick opinion that is based only on my current mood. Should these guide the future development of pharo? That could do more harm than it helps.
Nevertheless nice idea ;) Norbert > Am 04.11.2013 um 09:19 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: > > I think that if we want to have it, we have to make something simple with an option to create ideas and simple voting. If it will be used then we can extend it. > > Uko > >> On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >>> On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:04, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 2013-11-04, at 08:56, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >>>>> >>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) >>>>> >>>>> But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. >>>> >>>> I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: >>>> >>>> - I like it >>>> - I need it really >>>> - I like or need it and will spend time doing it >>> >>> yes, the "I am willing to contribute" is important! >> >> or even, “I am willing to pay" > > |
On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:41, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: > I don't think our community ever lacked of ideas. It is primarily time/contributed work that is missing. I think that you are right on this. That’s why I think we need this ideas portal. So all the ideas are collected in one place and you can spot and when someone has time to contribute ha can check what ideas have the most amount of votes, etc… Uko > It is too easy to have a quick opinion that is based only on my current mood. Should these guide the future development of pharo? That could do more harm than it helps. > Nevertheless nice idea ;) > > Norbert > >> Am 04.11.2013 um 09:19 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >> >> I think that if we want to have it, we have to make something simple with an option to create ideas and simple voting. If it will be used then we can extend it. >> >> Uko >> >>> On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:15, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On 04 Nov 2013, at 09:04, Camillo Bruni <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 2013-11-04, at 08:56, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Am 04.11.2013 um 00:26 schrieb Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]>: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> I’ve just got an idea (not something extra ordinary) to try out. Maybe we can make some kind of poll where community will be able to add new feature requests and vote for them. This way we can get an idea what is important to most of people. Eg. see how many votes are for the stateful traits and how many for the ability to quit image without prompt for saving. After writing last sentence I’ve figured out that it’s a good idea to be able also to vote down :) >>>>>> >>>>>> But I think that this can be a nice experiment. Also as we are promoting and idea that “Pharo is made by you”, then new feature poll is nice to have. >>>>> >>>>> I have this gut feeling there should something around three levels of acknowledgement: >>>>> >>>>> - I like it >>>>> - I need it really >>>>> - I like or need it and will spend time doing it >>>> >>>> yes, the "I am willing to contribute" is important! >>> >>> or even, “I am willing to pay" >> >> > |
I agree too, at worse this poll will show that Pharo is not abandonware and a community that takes seriously popular feature requests. I would also love to see a progress bar per feature request or WIP features. I am not talking here 100 features, even 10 will be enough to say that we are moving forward. In irc I had several people pop in asking why pharo chose smalltalk and is it not smalltalk "dead" etc ? So definetly this could help kick the smalltalk stereotype from the mind of newcomers and show them we are not big, but none the less quite active and open minded community.
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Why do you mention Smalltalk at all actually? In my classes, I simply say that Pharo is inspired by Smalltalk, if I ever mention it It is easier to be convinced by the future than by the past. Alexandre
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2013/11/4 Alexandre Bergel <[hidden email]>
To me trying to dissociate Smalltalk from Pharo is like trying to dissociate Smalltalk from VisualWorks (aka "Cincom Smalltalk"). Or worst... ANSI C from C++.
I still mention Smalltalk, and I promote Pharo as "an active Smalltalk dialect". Maybe it will be better to promote it plainly as Pharo... Esteban A. Maringolo |
On 04 Nov 2013, at 22:13, Esteban A. Maringolo <[hidden email]> wrote:
I just say that Pharo is what had to happen with Smalltalk in last 30 years. We can think about Pharo in Smalltalk like Scala in Java. But Java had versions, and Smalltalk is treated just as only 80th year frozen snapshot. I’d say that Pharo is a Smalltalk of 2013 year. Oh, yes, but in public it’s better to say that Pharo is completely different ;)
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I think now Pharo as Pharo. It stands on its own get inspired by the past, inventing the future ;) how that sounds ?
On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:21 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Sounds like I should get back to work :)
On 04 Nov 2013, at 23:19, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
Pharo is Pharo. And we should promote it like that. Doru On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 11:19 PM, kilon alios <[hidden email]> wrote:
"Every thing has its own flow"
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Administrator
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It is inherently confusing because originally "Smalltalk" meant "a language/environment that's continually reinvented every 4 years based on the knowledge gained by the last iteration". Then, Smalltalk-80 was frozen and released, and "Smalltalk" was repurposed in the wider world as a shorthand for Smalltalk-80. So, one would be correct in saying that Pharo is Smalltalk in the original meaning, as the next iteration after 80 (although it missed the 4 year target by a bit ha ha). But, since the nearly universal understanding of "Smalltalk" is Smalltalk-80, the "more true" and practical choice is to say that Pharo is Smalltalk-inspired (i.e. inspired by Smalltalk-80, but clearly not Smalltalk-80). HTH.
Cheers,
Sean |
I find this debate interesting... but a bit strange
For me, Smalltalk-80 is what is inside the 80's book, and no implementation of Smalltalk was really Smalltalk-80 but something else (some principles plus a huge amount of code)... Pharo is no more different from Smalltalk-80 than all the others were, and, compared to Self, Pharo looks like a very tame variant :) So for me, Pharo will stay Pharo Smalltalk: a member of a large family which I had the pleasure to work in and use for a very long time, and in many different shapes but still respecting the same core principles. Thierry ________________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [[hidden email]] de la part de Sean P. DeNigris [[hidden email]] Date d'envoi : mardi 5 novembre 2013 17:53 À : [hidden email] Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Feature request poll Tudor Girba-2 wrote > Pharo is Pharo. And we should promote it like that. It is inherently confusing because originally "Smalltalk" meant "a language/environment that's continually reinvented every 4 years based on the knowledge gained by the last iteration". Then, Smalltalk-80 was frozen and released, and "Smalltalk" was repurposed in the wider world as a shorthand for Smalltalk-80. So, one would be correct in saying that Pharo is Smalltalk in the original meaning, as the next iteration after 80 (although it missed the 4 year target by a bit ha ha). But, since the nearly universal understanding of "Smalltalk" is Smalltalk-80, the "more true" and practical choice is to say that Pharo is Smalltalk-inspired (i.e. inspired by Smalltalk-80, but clearly not Smalltalk-80). HTH. ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Feature-request-poll-tp4718993p4719415.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com. |
Administrator
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That's valid, and just what I was speaking to. For us Smalltalkers, the tiny sliver of people who understand the subtleties, Pharo (in its current form, who knows in a year!) is quite reasonably described as Smalltalk - an evolution of Smalltalk-80. What the "inspired" part is about is the 99.99999999999% of the world who we're marketing to who think "Smalltalk = Smalltalk-80 = dead over-30-year-old language", which does not acknowledge Pharo's evolution and vision. It seems to me to be mostly a question of marketing and practicality.
Cheers,
Sean |
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