For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate

quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has  
impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who  
don't think it can really make a difference in the world. The project's  
founder and the MIT Media Laboratory's founding director, Nicholas  
Negroponte, thinks that too much attention is being given to the computer  
itself and not to the mission of global education he is trying to promote,  
but whether technology is more helpful than educational structure is being  
debated. "=====>" Intel and Microsoft stand as two of the biggest skeptics  
"<===="; Bill Gates questions whether the idea is "just taking what we do  
in the rich world," and making the assumption that it will be something  
good for the developing world as well. Seymour Papert, a computer  
scientist and educator who is an advisor in the project, claims that the  
machines will give the children new opportunities to explore, and "learn  
how to learn," which he feels is more important than traditional teaching  
techniques that simply focus on memorization. Stanford University  
education professor "=====>" Larry Cuban disagrees "<=====": "I think it's  
wonderful that the machines will be put in the hands of children and  
parents, and it will have an impact on their lives. However, if part of  
their rationale is that it will revolutionize education in various  
countries...I think they are being naive and innocent about the reality of  
formal schooling." Prototypes have been developed to prove the worth of  
the computers to government leaders in developing nations, and five  
countries--Argentina, Thailand, Nigeria, Libya, and Brazil--have already  
made tentative commitments to provide millions of the computers to  
students. The laptop is expected to go into production in Taiwan by mid  
2007." unquote.
New York Times (11/30/06) P. A1; Markoff, John
- http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/30/technology/30laptop.html

To get a better view of history _and_ the future... replace the words
"computer" & "laptop" with either of the words "book" or "codex" and
see how history repeats itself.

Would you agree Alan Kay?

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:47:04 -0800, Darius Clarke <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> To get a better view of history _and_ the future... replace the words
> "computer" & "laptop" with either of the words "book" or "codex" and
> see how history repeats itself.
>
> Would you agree Alan Kay?

That was my exact thought.

I love reading the Slashdot crowd whenever--WHENEVER--the OLPC comes up.

Talk about not being able to see anything beyond one's preconceived  
notions.

The brickbats thrown by Intel and MS seem entirely based on them not being  
involved. Predictably childish.

And predictably stupid.  As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this
world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them
is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which
turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real
alternative for personal computing at the moment).  But instead they focus
on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.

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On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:11:56 -0800, J J <[hidden email]> wrote:

> And predictably stupid.  As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this  
> world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for  
> them is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth  
> (which turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely  
> the only real alternative for personal computing at the moment).  But  
> instead they focus on the fact that they don't get to tax *this*  
> transaction.

I don't style myself savvy enough to understand the difficulties the  
project will encounter once it finally gets on the ground, but to not root  
for it--to hope for its failure couched in terms of "realism" and  
pseudo-intellectualism, this strikes me as the worst sort of narcissism.

I don't think anyone can possibly know what this is going to do.  But we can
know what it *might* do.  It might raise the level of education
*drastically* in a lot of countries.  For someone to piss and moan because
they saw "millions of laptops" and don't get to tax it is just embarrassing.


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>> "Seymour Papert, a computer scientist and educator who is an advisor in
the project, claims that the machines will give the children new
opportunities to explore, and "learn how to learn," which he feels is more
important than traditional teaching techniques that simply focus on
memorization."

Seymour Papert though Logos could enhance learning.  Imagine that -- a toy
that doesn't look like a weapon, a vehicle or a movie star; how successful
could THAT be?

Microsoft's first impression of OLPC, if memory serves me, was that it was a
fine concept but needed to run Windows.  I wake up with nightmares of a
WinCE machine running Bob, and millions of third-world kids learning to play
Sol and use the three-finger salute.

<g>

Gary


----- Original Message -----
From: "Klaus D. Witzel" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate


quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has
impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who don't
think . . .



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How embarassing -- "though Logos" should have been "thought Legos."

I might have learned to spell and to type (and proofread?) properly had OLPC
been around fifty years ago . . .

Gary

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Fisher" <[hidden email]>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate


>> "Seymour Papert, a computer scientist and educator who is an advisor in
the project, claims that the machines will give the children new
opportunities to explore, and "learn how to learn," which he feels is more
important than traditional teaching techniques that simply focus on
memorization."

Seymour Papert though Logos could enhance learning.  Imagine that -- a toy
that doesn't look like a weapon, a vehicle or a movie star; how successful
could THAT be?

Microsoft's first impression of OLPC, if memory serves me, was that it was a
fine concept but needed to run Windows.  I wake up with nightmares of a
WinCE machine running Bob, and millions of third-world kids learning to play
Sol and use the three-finger salute.

<g>

Gary


----- Original Message -----
From: "Klaus D. Witzel" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate


quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has
impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who don't
think . . .



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And here I thought you'd meant "thought Logo"!

frank

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Fisher" <[hidden email]>
To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate


> How embarassing -- "though Logos" should have been "thought Legos."
>
> I might have learned to spell and to type (and proofread?) properly had
OLPC a
> fine concept but needed to run Windows.  I wake up with nightmares of a
> WinCE machine running Bob, and millions of third-world kids learning to
play don't

Dear JJ,

        I see your point and agree about the positive inpact that OLPC may have in the
creation of wealth.

        But for supporting intelligent altruistic projects that are not hipocritical nor
asistencialist ones, is common knowledge that one cannot count with the established
interest (aka establishment).

        Every thinking creature knows that they have an enormous responsibility on that.
But that does not matters for the rest of us. You can spend your entire life waiting
support like that from them. I may clarify here that I'm not completely convinced that
they may be as smart as they think they are. But in practice their are more concern about
the short term cashflow and status quo than the long term ones.

        If you analize their position any altruistic moral interest they may have, that
could lead them to any altruist, ponderated and intelligent, initiative, may just be
entering in direct conflic with their financial or status quo interests.

        Their environment will pass to see a motivated person too critic in a too *risky*
way, and they will just do everything to persuade him to *be reasonable again*. Human
history is full of this.

        I think that only a deeply touched and strong ego in a position of power that can
permanently make asistance (mainly throug reeducation and explanation) to it's environment
can do that.

        But right now wich interest do you think that will dominate the scene?

        Anyway I'm optimistic. The OLPC will open a lot of oportunities to intelligent
childs that has not abundant resources. This also means a lot of childs that has not a
notebook and not a PS3 nor a Xbox nor a Nintendo, but that they could have a linux with a
Squeak and other intellectual tools and time to use them. This dont let me doubts that in
a short time this oportunities will overcome in number of *facts* (creation of wealth) the
*opinions* of people that are too hurry to give their selfish-based, and in consequence,
small opinions (concentration of wealth).

        We just can wait. Just let it five years and see...

        cheers,

Sebastian
ref=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?>
href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
>
>

On Fri, 2006-12-01 at 22:11 +0000, J J wrote:

> And predictably stupid.  As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this
> world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them
> is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which
> turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real
> alternative for personal computing at the moment).  But instead they focus
> on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.
>

Bill Gates has put enough money, and more importantly, time and energy
into philanthropy in the developing world over the last number of years
that I do not doubt the sincerity of his motives. Go take a quick look
at the Gates Foundation web site.

Remember, it is a bitter pill for Bill Gates to swallow that his
company's software is not the software we are concentrating on; if you
were chairman and founder of Microsoft, you'd probably believe fervently
in your product too.  To he and his company's credit, they have been
much better about OLPC than Intel has been.
                           - Jim
                               
--
Jim Gettys
One Laptop Per Child

Ok, my bad.  I was in error when I said he cares only about money.  He
obviously cares about something else (depending on how pessimistic one is).

>Remember, it is a bitter pill for Bill Gates to swallow that his
>company's software is not the software we are concentrating on; if you
>were chairman and founder of Microsoft, you'd probably believe fervently
>in your product too.  To he and his company's credit, they have been
>much better about OLPC than Intel has been.

Has he offered his software for free for this project?  Or for the same
price of what ever OS you are using?  If not then I can't see this of a case
of someone being soar that they didn't get picked first for the baseball
team.

I don't hate Bill Gates.  He hasn't done anything that was more wrong then
what others would have done if they had ended up in his position.  But I am
not as optimistic about the sincerity of his motives either.

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On Fri, 2006-12-01 at 22:11 +0000, J J wrote:

> And predictably stupid.  As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this
> world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them
> is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which
> turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real
> alternative for personal computing at the moment).  But instead they focus
> on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.

Jim Gettys wrote:

> Bill Gates has put enough money, and more importantly, time and energy
> into philanthropy in the developing world over the last number of years
> that I do not doubt the sincerity of his motives. Go take a quick look
> at the Gates Foundation web site.

> Remember, it is a bitter pill for Bill Gates to swallow that his
> company's software is not the software we are concentrating on; if you
> were chairman and founder of Microsoft, you'd probably believe fervently
> in your product too.  To he and his company's credit, they have been
> much better about OLPC than Intel has been.
>                           - Jim

Greg Palast wrote:

I bet Mr. Gates, so quick to shout "piracy!" could name two products that
depend heavily on the lifted intellectual discoveries of others: MS-DOS and
Windows. To make sure no one could steal from him what he had so freely
boosted, Gates has run an international campaign to legally lock up his
monopoly on ideas. Bill's nobody's fool. He must know that if the
intellectual property defenses are breached, it will come from the need to
get cheap AIDS drugs to Africa. So we see Gates putting his two cents (in his
case, two billion) into the Africa AIDS holocaust issue. In February 2002,
Bill and wife Melinda made the cover of Newsweek for their bighearted
philanthropy. The grinning couple's foundation has spent hundreds of millions
for AIDS treatment in Africa, working paw-in-claw with Merck and other Big
Pharma corporations tied to a PR campaign that drowns out the calls of
doctors pleading to end TRIPS restrictions. If there's any doubt where the
Gates's hearts lie, the Wall Street Journal notes that their foundation has,
oddly, invested over $200 million in drug company stocks. If
this "charitable" operation eviscerates protest against the TRIPS
thought-police and medical patents are upheld, Gates's donations could have
the effect of killing more people than they save.

        From "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" page 190

This is hate-mongering, pure and simple.  Please do not post it to this list.

-Ralph Johnson

Ralph Johnson wrote:
this looks more like a bunch of interesting facts IMHO.

I do not see any hatred here, but I understand the analysis can be
disappointing to people believing in mercantilist "charity".

Stef

Stéphane Rollandin <[hidden email]> writes:

Go back and read it again -- it's all speculation and vitriol.  It
presents things as facts that no one could possibly know.  For
example, part of the argument is about PR strategy.  How does anyone
know, for sure, what that might be?

I am all for diffusing hero worship.  However, let's not just, well,
hate-monger.  If we're going to mob up on something, how about we mob
up on, oh, how cool the OLPC is.  :)


-Lex

Lex Spoon wrote:
> Go back and read it again

well, I know enough about these matters to have my own ideas about this.
so let's say we disagree :)

OT anyway...


Stef