For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
 
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hi guys
I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place (hudson checking....) So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved to arrive to the point where: - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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I'm a little busy over the next day or so, but if no one else jumps in with a starting point or two I'll try to put something together to start chewing on ...
Dale On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: > hi guys > > I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions > is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place > (hudson checking....) > > So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved > to arrive to the point where: > - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there > - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? > > Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). > > > > "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you > do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, > today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes > > > > > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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In reply to this post by stephane ducasse-2
Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ...
Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? Maybe someone has already done something like that? Dale On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: > hi guys > > I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions > is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place > (hudson checking....) > > So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved > to arrive to the point where: > - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there > - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? > > Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). > > > > "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you > do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, > today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes > > > > > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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But I do not understand if we have a distribution per Pharo version then why we would get a problem.
I just do not have the knowledge to script metacello spec (alex can you help me there) else we would have already a repository per version of pharo with all the dependent packages. On Mar 5, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... > > Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? Why a simple SqueakSource project MetacelloPharo1.0 MetacelloPharo1.1 is not enough. Stef > > Dale > > On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: > >> hi guys >> >> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >> (hudson checking....) >> >> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >> to arrive to the point where: >> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >> >> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >> >> >> >> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >> >> >> >> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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Stef,
It was a thought related to an alternate implementation... Just another kind of repository I guess... Like I said it was just a thought. Dale On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:20 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: > But I do not understand if we have a distribution per Pharo version then why we would get a problem. > I just do not have the knowledge to script metacello spec (alex can you help me there) else we would have already a repository > per version of pharo with all the dependent packages. > > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > >> Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... >> >> Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? > > Why a simple SqueakSource project MetacelloPharo1.0 MetacelloPharo1.1 is not enough. > > Stef >> >> Dale >> >> On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> hi guys >>> >>> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >>> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >>> (hudson checking....) >>> >>> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >>> to arrive to the point where: >>> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >>> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >>> >>> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >>> >>> >>> >>> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >>> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >>> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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ah ok
Stef On Mar 5, 2011, at 9:40 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Stef, > > It was a thought related to an alternate implementation... > > Just another kind of repository I guess... > > Like I said it was just a thought. > > Dale > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 11:20 AM, stephane ducasse wrote: > >> But I do not understand if we have a distribution per Pharo version then why we would get a problem. >> I just do not have the knowledge to script metacello spec (alex can you help me there) else we would have already a repository >> per version of pharo with all the dependent packages. >> >> >> On Mar 5, 2011, at 8:09 PM, Dale Henrichs wrote: >> >>> Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... >>> >>> Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? >> >> Why a simple SqueakSource project MetacelloPharo1.0 MetacelloPharo1.1 is not enough. >> >> Stef >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> hi guys >>>> >>>> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >>>> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >>>> (hudson checking....) >>>> >>>> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >>>> to arrive to the point where: >>>> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >>>> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >>>> >>>> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >>>> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >>>> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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In reply to this post by Dale Henrichs
On 05.03.2011, at 20:09, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... > > Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? > If you remove the word "git" from above isn't that one approach that is already covered? You copy all mczs of a metacello version to a repository and then override the repository setting (using cache repository) ? That is a useful use case. But only one that archives versions. To me it as like branching off an old version which is a common way to work with svn. But I think this is an additional use case. If there is a reliable way of loading a specific version via metacello this is much more powerful. Norbert > Maybe someone has already done something like that? > > Dale > > On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: > >> hi guys >> >> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >> (hudson checking....) >> >> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >> to arrive to the point where: >> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >> >> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >> >> >> >> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >> >> >> >> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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Yes norbert
this is my original vision. Like that we can even ship readonly cds full of the complete history of the system :) Stef On Mar 5, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > On 05.03.2011, at 20:09, Dale Henrichs wrote: > >> Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... >> >> Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? >> > If you remove the word "git" from above isn't that one approach that is already covered? You copy all mczs of a metacello version to a repository and then override the repository setting (using cache repository) ? That is a useful use case. But only one that archives versions. To me it as like branching off an old version which is a common way to work with svn. But I think this is an additional use case. If there is a reliable way of loading a specific version via metacello this is much more powerful. > > > Norbert > >> Maybe someone has already done something like that? >> >> Dale >> >> On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >>> hi guys >>> >>> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >>> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >>> (hudson checking....) >>> >>> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >>> to arrive to the point where: >>> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >>> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >>> >>> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >>> >>> >>> >>> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >>> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >>> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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On 06.03.2011, at 10:03, stephane ducasse wrote: > Yes norbert > this is my original vision. > Like that we can even ship readonly cds full of the complete history of the system :) > I think this is possible already. Well, I don't know if there are places where metacello goes online under any condition. If not than the problem is solved. Making a snapshot of all things including configurations should let metacello act exactly the same every time. It is just problematic if the loading is influenced by tiny side effects. Than the things that get loaded are dependent on the version of the configuration. And this should be avoided under any circumstance. That's why I'm bothering Dale with stupid questions (he is a dog owner so he knows when and how to say "leave it!!!" :) ). Norbert > Stef > > > On Mar 5, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > >> >> On 05.03.2011, at 20:09, Dale Henrichs wrote: >> >>> Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... >>> >>> Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? >>> >> If you remove the word "git" from above isn't that one approach that is already covered? You copy all mczs of a metacello version to a repository and then override the repository setting (using cache repository) ? That is a useful use case. But only one that archives versions. To me it as like branching off an old version which is a common way to work with svn. But I think this is an additional use case. If there is a reliable way of loading a specific version via metacello this is much more powerful. >> >> >> Norbert >> >>> Maybe someone has already done something like that? >>> >>> Dale >>> >>> On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: >>> >>>> hi guys >>>> >>>> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >>>> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >>>> (hudson checking....) >>>> >>>> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >>>> to arrive to the point where: >>>> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >>>> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >>>> >>>> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >>>> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >>>> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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Norbert,
When you are sharing a specification or code, you need to have good tools support to ensure that the changes made by one person don't have an adverse affect on others ... For code you run tests, but that isn't enough if the code is expected to run on multiple platforms ... the code needs to be loaded and run on multiple platforms ... this is much the same situation for configurations ... there are advantages of sharing configurations, but the tools support is not up to snuff for Metacello... a reason that I am working like a banshee on MetacelloBrowser (when I have a ton of other work to do)...there are slime tools in grease that help folks write code that is portable across a number of platform something similar is needed for Metacello to help folks do a better job of updating cross-platform configurations. Soooo, the goal is have good enough tools support so that folks who care can create and maintain cross-platfrom configs ... we're not there yet .. Dale On Mar 6, 2011, at 2:15 AM, Norbert Hartl wrote: > > On 06.03.2011, at 10:03, stephane ducasse wrote: > >> Yes norbert >> this is my original vision. >> Like that we can even ship readonly cds full of the complete history of the system :) >> > I think this is possible already. Well, I don't know if there are places where metacello goes online under any condition. If not than the problem is solved. Making a snapshot of all things including configurations should let metacello act exactly the same every time. It is just problematic if the loading is influenced by tiny side effects. Than the things that get loaded are dependent on the version of the configuration. And this should be avoided under any circumstance. That's why I'm bothering Dale with stupid questions (he is a dog owner so he knows when and how to say "leave it!!!" :) ). > > Norbert > >> Stef >> >> >> On Mar 5, 2011, at 10:52 PM, Norbert Hartl wrote: >> >>> >>> On 05.03.2011, at 20:09, Dale Henrichs wrote: >>> >>>> Just a thought that was triggered by my response to Norbert ... >>>> >>>> Perhaps the way to go here is to produce a git repository of the mcz files and configurations ... extend the MonticelloBrowser to support git with a MCGitRepository that pulled the mcz and config files for a git version ... then Gofer Project and the MetacelloBrowser would do the right thing when loading things from that repository type? >>>> >>> If you remove the word "git" from above isn't that one approach that is already covered? You copy all mczs of a metacello version to a repository and then override the repository setting (using cache repository) ? That is a useful use case. But only one that archives versions. To me it as like branching off an old version which is a common way to work with svn. But I think this is an additional use case. If there is a reliable way of loading a specific version via metacello this is much more powerful. >>> >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>>> Maybe someone has already done something like that? >>>> >>>> Dale >>>> >>>> On Jan 26, 2011, at 12:46 PM, stephane ducasse wrote: >>>> >>>>> hi guys >>>>> >>>>> I really think that this is important that we to the point where the idea of repositories for distributions >>>>> is working. Getting this idea working is really important since it will enable all the rest to fall naturally in place >>>>> (hudson checking....) >>>>> >>>>> So could you (torsten, Miguel, dale...) try to come up with an agenda of the next steps that should be achieved >>>>> to arrive to the point where: >>>>> - a user can publish a configuration into a distribution and all the packages get copied and published there >>>>> - get a browser browsing the configurations of that distribution? >>>>> >>>>> Stef (busy but cannot do otherwise). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you >>>>> do different? ... especially if, by doing something different, >>>>> today might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > |
Re: For a metacello and metacello Repositories taskforces
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On 06.03.2011, at 17:58, Dale Henrichs wrote: Agreed. No need to convince me. I'm not arguing against anything. I see wonderful stuff happening and I know it takes time to accomplish that. That is perfect for me. Slime is indeed a target I have on my todo list. A set of some additional rules might help and changing the ones that introduce problems (like slime advizes you to change ifNotNilDo: to ifNotNil: regardless of block arguments ;) Norbert
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