Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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Hi,
First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like in general all this new additions. And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a good thing. But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen version? Pharo 7 will arrive soon… *if* we can fix all things missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why Spotter does not shows search line. Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that meant: - some important changes in UFFI - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a callback problem). I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing. I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (I’m at the train now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need them) cheers, Esteban
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By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated SublimishTheme. For same reason I didn’t integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people to install other themes from catalog. Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to clean up, not without problems. cheers, Esteban ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed to control the flow of issues...
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifact/report.html is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-SublimishTheme on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? Phil On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
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I don’t know. It shouldn’t :) Esteban
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Hi, In order to make Sublimish theme possible there are some important changes to gt morphic brick themer, spotter and probably other gt tools. Hardcoded color and style values were already considered as a serious issue and a bug. Imho, we should integrate at least fixes on GT side :) Thanks, Phil! Great job :) Alex On Mar 6, 2017 07:46, "Esteban Lorenzano" <[hidden email]> wrote:
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… and this is why even small additions should not be included in frozen versions… you never know how it will impact others… and suddenly you have a full chain of changes with unpredictable impacts.
Esteban
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the two themes policy). We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. -- Pavel
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
+1 Always true, always sad. But most changes for the good do something bad that is recognized after release. Norbert
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :)
problem with it is that is makes ripples. If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for P7, yes. Esteban
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by NorbertHartl
On the other hand: it is better to comb through the *many* issues very hard and close many, even some that might not be just bug fixes
than the other alternative: Just let the issue tracker rot “because we are in freeze”. I feel *much* better now about the state of the issue tracker than 3 weeks ago. Now we are seeing light, while before it just god worse and worse and worse… If adding some “non fixes” is the price for that, I am willing to pay for it. If people want to be more strict: We are *really* looking for feedback on issues. Any feedback, even “please postpone”. Right now we do not have enough people to do this job and e.g. I can not reject everything. I just do not have the energy for that, as it kills all the (little) fun of what is there in that job. Marcus
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. -- Pavel
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ah ah, yeah, I had a ThemePalette thing but resisted rewiring everything. Jokes aside, yes, this is much needed as the current intent based colors with lighter/darker/lighter lighter and other tricks should in fact go into a true palette. I think that we should at least cover this: The 16 and 256 versions. As Pharo on the CLI is becoming a thing, that will be helpful there. There are also tons of palettes in Roassal but not to the same purpose. Along with some of these in spirit: http://www.pawelporwisz.pl/winamp/winamp_color_themes_en.php We can learn from http://www.skinconsortium.com/ (yeah I like Winamp, old me). Pharo with such a look, oh yeah. One thing I would love to have in the theme is the notion of an 'accent', like they do in MS products. The current DarkTheme has a blue tint, but if we could easily switch that to orange/purple/green/... it would be awesome. I learned a few things digging into Sublimish and GT, so, I think I can tweak Sublimish to have 2 things: a PharoAccentDarkTheme and a SublimishTheme that comes as a subclass of it. Same with GT. Tell me what you think. Phil
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
I treid 64-bit Pharo on fresh (x)ubuntu and: - Zodiac (SSL) works - Roassal (Athens) work with a library path fix . LibGit can be loaded with some effort. It looks very promising! Thank you! Cheers, -- Pavel 2017-03-06 7:17 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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2017-03-06 16:54 GMT+01:00 Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]>:
You're luckier than me. Pharo 64bits segfaults on both Ubuntu 16.04 and 16.10. Thierry
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… and the dumps? Esteban
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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2017-03-06 17:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
Here it is. Can create it on-demand :( I had no success compiling 64bits vms by myself. They crash/deadlock after that point, but they are not usable either. Thierry
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crash.dmp (30K) |
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which VM are you using?
this: **PrimitiveFailure** findSubstring:in:startingAt:matchTable: indicates that you are not using a PharoVM… am I right? Esteban
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Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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Le 06/03/2017 à 18:43, Esteban Lorenzano a écrit :
> which VM are you using? > > this: > > **PrimitiveFailure** > findSubstring:in:startingAt:matchTable: > > indicates that you are not using a PharoVM… am I right? I'm using https://dl.bintray.com/estebanlm/pharo-vm/pharo-linux-x86_64threaded.d7cda15.zip Thierry > Esteban > > >> On 6 Mar 2017, at 17:38, Thierry Goubier <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >> >> >> >> 2017-03-06 17:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email] >> <mailto:[hidden email]>>: >> >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 17:04, Thierry Goubier >>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2017-03-06 16:54 GMT+01:00 Pavel >>> Krivanek <[hidden email] >>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>: >>> >>> I treid 64-bit Pharo on fresh (x)ubuntu and: >>> - Zodiac (SSL) works >>> - Roassal (Athens) work with a library path fix >>> . LibGit can be loaded with some effort. >>> >>> >>> You're luckier than me. >>> >>> Pharo 64bits segfaults on both Ubuntu 16.04 and 16.10. >> >> … and the dumps? >> >> >> Here it is. Can create it on-demand :( >> >> I had no success compiling 64bits vms by myself. They crash/deadlock >> after that point, but they are not usable either. >> >> Thierry >> >> >> >> Esteban >> >>> >>> Thierry >>> >>> >>> >>> It looks very promising! Thank you! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> -- Pavel >>> >>> >>> >>> 2017-03-06 7:17 GMT+01:00 Esteban >>> Lorenzano <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for >>> my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows >>> list on spotter, and I like in general all this new >>> additions. >>> >>> And I know, most of those additions are usability >>> enhancements so a good thing. >>> >>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in >>> theory) frozen version? >>> >>> Pharo 7 will arrive soon… *if* we can fix all things >>> missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be >>> good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not >>> ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>> >>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for >>> example why Spotter does not shows search line. >>> >>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits >>> but that meant: >>> >>> - some important changes in UFFI >>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks >>> for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an >>> image problem that causes a callback problem). >>> >>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on >>> 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing. >>> >>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (I’m at >>> the train now), but in the mean time you can download all >>> from here: >>> >>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>> <http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip> >>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip >>> <http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip> (linux) >>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip <http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip> (mac) >>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip >>> <http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip> (in >>> case you need them) >>> >>> cheers, >>> Esteban >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> <crash.dmp> > |
Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
We should make it available from the catalog :)
-- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
Re: Frozen is melted (can you guys please be patient?)
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> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <[hidden email]> wrote: > > We should make it available from the catalog :) Yes, it most certainly should be. If only we could then tell user to type Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> > 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>: > >> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>: >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, [hidden email] wrote: >>> >>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator-simple/7294/artifact/report.html is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should b/c if you put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. >>> >>> Also, I see https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate-code-from-SublimishTheme on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? >>> >>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? >> >> I don’t know. >> It shouldn’t :) >> >> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it (and they should be in catalog) :) >> >> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not aware of the two themes policy). > > it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) > >> >> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. > > problem with it is that is makes ripples. > If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait for P7, yes. > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme > At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it forward and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. And showed again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in the system. > > -- Pavel > > > > Esteban > >> >> -- Pavel >> >> >> >> >> >> Esteban >> >>> >>> Phil >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my use, but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, and I like in general all this new additions. >>> >>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated SublimishTheme. For same reason I didn’t integrated DarkMetalTheme: My idea is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and allow people to install other themes from catalog. >>> >>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility and then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already happened that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we needed to clean up, not without problems. >>> >>> cheers, >>> Esteban >>> >>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I failed to control the flow of issues... >>> >>>> >>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements so a good thing. >>>> >>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) frozen version? >>>> >>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soon… *if* we can fix all things missing. If I can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that use linux and mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. >>>> >>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example why Spotter does not shows search line. >>>> >>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that meant: >>>> >>>> - some important changes in UFFI >>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for Cairo (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that causes a callback problem). >>>> >>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in general deserves a lot of testing. >>>> >>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (I’m at the train now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: >>>> >>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip >>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip (linux) >>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip (mac) >>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you need them) >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Esteban > > > > > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
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