Fwd: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing
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Fwd: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing
 
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Benoit,
Hope this helps, ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alan Kay <[hidden email]> Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> Cc: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"? Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation? Cheers, Alan ________________________________ From: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> To: Alan Kay <[hidden email]> Cc: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing Benoit is asking this. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Benoît Fleury <[hidden email]> Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> Cc: IAEP SugarLabs <[hidden email]>, squeakland list <[hidden email]> Thank you Bert for the link. I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture. "One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick just because it is a good idea. All the companies I’ve worked for have this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a way to invent “agriculture” we could put the world back together and all would prosper." If someone could explain me what it means. Thanks, Benoit. On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote: > Time interviews Alan Kay: > > http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/ > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland squeakland mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland -- -- Yoshiki -- -- Yoshiki |
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Actually, it was agriculture that led to the idea of government as a
protection racket and to kneecapping or worse of those who refused to pay their taxes. Hunter-gatherer cultures are tribal, not national, and far more cooperative. I have historical and archaeological data on this if anybody needs it. Or you could watch The Gods Must Be Crazy and its sequel for humorous examples. "Run and tell everybody to come and help us eat this elephant." (Killed by poachers, who took the tusks and left the body.) On Tue, April 2, 2013 4:11 pm, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: > Benoit, > > Hope this helps, > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Alan Kay <[hidden email]> > Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM > Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing > To: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> > Cc: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> > > > Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"? > > Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation? > > Cheers, > > Alan > > ________________________________ > From: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> > To: Alan Kay <[hidden email]> > Cc: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> > Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM > Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing > > Benoit is asking this. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoît Fleury <[hidden email]> > Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM > Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing > To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> > Cc: IAEP SugarLabs <[hidden email]>, squeakland list > <[hidden email]> > > > Thank you Bert for the link. > > I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture. > > "One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if > they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees > when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. > It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick > just because it is a good idea. All the companies Ive worked for have > this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and > gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a > way to invent agriculture we could put the world back together and > all would prosper." > > If someone could explain me what it means. > > Thanks, > Benoit. > > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> Time interviews Alan Kay: >> >> http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/ >> >> - Bert - >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > _______________________________________________ > squeakland mailing list > [hidden email] > http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland > > > -- > -- Yoshiki > > > > > -- > -- Yoshiki > > -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks |
OT: The shift to agriculture (was Re: [squeak-dev] Fwd: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing)
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I'm not sure we've successfully completed a shift to agriculture at all.
Some of the problems that modern societies still struggle with are directly related to the fact that we're (instinctively) better at hunting/gathering than agriculture, e.g. we have expensive overflowing prisons, whereas a hunter/gatherer who serially violated social norms would likely be left to hunt and gather alone, a fate roughly equivalent to death (unless a position in another social group could be obtained.) Sounds a bit like getting fired from a job, no? I think that might be what Alan meant about the knee capping, but I'm not him so I don't know for sure. On Apr 2, 2013, at 7:03 PM, [hidden email] wrote: > Actually, it was agriculture that led to the idea of government as a > protection racket and to kneecapping or worse of those who refused to pay > their taxes. Hunter-gatherer cultures are tribal, not national, and far > more cooperative. I have historical and archaeological data on this if > anybody needs it. Or you could watch The Gods Must Be Crazy and its sequel > for humorous examples. > > "Run and tell everybody to come and help us eat this elephant." (Killed by > poachers, who took the tusks and left the body.) > > On Tue, April 2, 2013 4:11 pm, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: >> Benoit, >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Alan Kay <[hidden email]> >> Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM >> Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing >> To: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> >> Cc: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> >> >> >> Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"? >> >> Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Alan >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <[hidden email]> >> To: Alan Kay <[hidden email]> >> Cc: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM >> Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing >> >> Benoit is asking this. >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Benoît Fleury <[hidden email]> >> Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing >> To: Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> >> Cc: IAEP SugarLabs <[hidden email]>, squeakland list >> <[hidden email]> >> >> >> Thank you Bert for the link. >> >> I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture. >> >> "One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if >> they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees >> when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. >> It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick >> just because it is a good idea. All the companies I’ve worked for have >> this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and >> gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a >> way to invent “agriculture” we could put the world back together and >> all would prosper." >> >> If someone could explain me what it means. >> >> Thanks, >> Benoit. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> Time interviews Alan Kay: >>> >>> http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/ >>> >>> - Bert - >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> squeakland mailing list >>> [hidden email] >>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> >> >> -- >> -- Yoshiki >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- Yoshiki >> >> > > > -- > Edward Mokurai > (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) > Cherlin > Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks > > > |
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