GSoC idea: Brainstorming portal for better community decision process

Dear Smalltalkers,

Becasue we have quite some problems in a community with seeking a
consensus on important questions, from organization ones and on, I came
to idea to build a tool for help. And a GSoC project can be an ideal
opportunity to build such a tool. What do you think?

Here is a description:

Brainstorming portal for better community decision process
==========================================================

Create a web portal for brainstorming sessions/meetings to get ideas and
answers to important questions in Smalltalk community. Portal should
allow on-line to:

   1. brainstorm the ideas
   2. vote to get-out the best ideas
   3. seek consensus
   4. analyze - report

On-line session/meeting should look like a Skype session together with a
brainstorming portal, from collecting ideas to a final decision
proposal. Example of such session can be a Squeak Oversight Board
meeting or planning session for a new Smalltalk project. Or some broader
session in the community, like on a question how to organize better.

Some important concepts:

    * anonymity of idea proposers
    * associations: proposers see the ideas of anonymous others to
      facilitate an association for proposing an even better idea
    * seeking consensus to avoid 51/49% decisions but to come closer to
      100% agreement on important ideas.

Technical details

    * a web application for gathering brainstormed ideas in real-time
      (using Ajax and Comet technology).
    * voting system with appropriate algorithms
    * analytics with on-line graphs and reports on paper/PDF
    * installation on a publicly available hosting server

Benefits to the Student

    * getting insight into group dynamics of Smalltalk community and in
      general
    * gaining knowledge of modern web technologies in Smalltalk and in
      general

Benefits to the Community

Better community decision process by getting the best ideas from the
members while on the other side avoiding stalemates so frequent in
Smalltalk community those days


Best regards
Janko


--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

Hi Janko,

I like your idea. Have you considered the very same idea but
implemented as as a client-server within Squeak rather than a portal?
Accessibility is certainly important and this system could be a good
Seaside application. However, I am inclined to believe that it would
have a greater collateral impact if it was something used within
Squeak on both sides. We should want people spend as much time as
possible within Squeak to create a unique opportunity to bring new
features, correct bugs, etc. "It's right under your nose" style. This
would not be the same as a server side application.

Ian.

2010/3/11 Janko Mivšek <[hidden email]>:


--
http://mecenia.blogspot.com/

Hi Ian,

On 11. 03. 2010 12:30, Ian Trudel wrote:

> I like your idea. Have you considered the very same idea but
> implemented as as a client-server within Squeak rather than a portal?

Thanks! Not yet, but I see an easy extension of this idea to the GUI
client later.

> Accessibility is certainly important and this system could be a good
> Seaside application. However, I am inclined to believe that it would
> have a greater collateral impact if it was something used within
> Squeak on both sides. We should want people spend as much time as
> possible within Squeak to create a unique opportunity to bring new
> features, correct bugs, etc. "It's right under your nose" style. This
> would not be the same as a server side application.

Yes, for some low level technical brainstorming for sure. But idea of
this portal is broader: to cover also brainstorming about organizational
questions (like those right now in Squeak community), general ideas for
new projects, etc etc. On this level a web browser is for sure your
preferred client.

Best regards
Janko


--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

Hi Janko,

>>What do you think?

Big mistake to ask that... :)

So "report" is the end goal?

Consensus doesn't accomplish anything. Many truly great things are not understood by a voting majority. A mixture of pride and reward is required to get work done. Few would anonymously give away great ideas. Who is going to implement a commonly recognized "great" idea that is not their own? Usually the quality and results of work lacking incentive are mediocre at best. What about the destructive personalities that take pride in destroying good ideas? It is those types that love to participate in consensus groups because that is how they derive satisfaction. The outcome of what you are proposing would be the common (mis)understanding of problems. Consensus doesn't mean that understanding is correct. Consensus doesn't mean that what is proposed will really accomplish anything. Consensus doesn't get the goals actually achieved. Consensus work does little more than mimic what someone else already struggled to prove successful--diminishing incentive from people who deserve the credit. I've never seen anything good come from a consensus.

Better to act in an environment that forms a cycle of individual liberty and reward. Create a market for change where people can work for reward. Pride is the dominant incentive in young markets. Incentive markets originate from pride in the hope to establish a market for financial reward.

"Stalemate"? That means that there is a gatekeeper blocking change or destroying incentives. What stops a Linux developer from evolving code? Obviously the cost of getting Microsoft to change their code would be a disincentive. Smalltalk is between those extremes, but with fewer incentives to overcome the cost-of-change. To me, Smalltalk development is about rapid evolution. Years ago I stopped caring about releasing code though gatekeepers. I expect you'll find many people have already done really great things but are not sharing them. That is a market opportunity for someone smart enough to develop it.

Paul Baumann



-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Janko Mivšek
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 6:15 AM
To: Squeak; [hidden email]; GNU Smalltalk; GemStone Seaside beta discussion; 'VWNC'
Subject: [vwnc] GSoC idea: Brainstorming portal for better community decision process

Dear Smalltalkers,

Becasue we have quite some problems in a community with seeking a consensus on important questions, from organization ones and on, I came to idea to build a tool for help. And a GSoC project can be an ideal opportunity to build such a tool. What do you think?

Here is a description:

Brainstorming portal for better community decision process ==========================================================

Create a web portal for brainstorming sessions/meetings to get ideas and answers to important questions in Smalltalk community. Portal should allow on-line to:

   1. brainstorm the ideas
   2. vote to get-out the best ideas
   3. seek consensus
   4. analyze - report

On-line session/meeting should look like a Skype session together with a brainstorming portal, from collecting ideas to a final decision proposal. Example of such session can be a Squeak Oversight Board meeting or planning session for a new Smalltalk project. Or some broader session in the community, like on a question how to organize better.

Some important concepts:

    * anonymity of idea proposers
    * associations: proposers see the ideas of anonymous others to
      facilitate an association for proposing an even better idea
    * seeking consensus to avoid 51/49% decisions but to come closer to
      100% agreement on important ideas.

Technical details

    * a web application for gathering brainstormed ideas in real-time
      (using Ajax and Comet technology).
    * voting system with appropriate algorithms
    * analytics with on-line graphs and reports on paper/PDF
    * installation on a publicly available hosting server

Benefits to the Student

    * getting insight into group dynamics of Smalltalk community and in
      general
    * gaining knowledge of modern web technologies in Smalltalk and in
      general

Benefits to the Community

Better community decision process by getting the best ideas from the members while on the other side avoiding stalemates so frequent in Smalltalk community those days


Best regards
Janko


--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si
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Janko,

Paul has made some criticisms of your idea elsewhere on the thread...and
some of his points are certainly worth considering.

However,  a system with some of the attributes you describe might be
implemented as a "fun" tool to experiment with social communities and
the outcomes of their interactions.   If you take one step of
abstraction away from "serious" consensus-seeking and make the tool
configurable enough to support "playing at consensus seeking",   it
might become a runaway hit.  :-)

Gregory Bourassa


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On 3/11/10 7:51 PM, "Paul Baumann" <[hidden email]> wrote:
+100

Get real , not virtual.
These days seems if you lack some if you do not belongs to a tribe
(Facebook, Twitter, etc)
And some wish we have Teleplace instead plain text irc.
Nothing beats meet friends in a bar.
Dan Ingalls have world fame , but until I was lucky enough to share beer and
pizza with he, don't start to know.

Stop to think the world ends in Central Park of New York and the solutions
working for Yorkers work for the rest of us.

Advocatus Diaboli

On Thu, 2010-03-11 at 13:45 +0100, Janko Mivšek wrote:
I think both of these viewpoints are correct. For this specific app I
agree with Ian, that it should be written as a client/server app in
Squeak. This would be very close to my concept of the core technology
for OSP, the Super Chalk Board. I had not considered anonymity, but I
have seen such brainstorming tools used in the military. They were a fad
about ten years ago but I never hear about them any more, so might not
have been effective. Simple to implement.

<http://wiki.openslate.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Super_Chalk_Board_Design>

At the same time we cannot be writing "an app for that" for everything
that comes along. And, to play with others we need a good web browser.
Problem: hard to implement in Squeak. My proposed work-around: the X11
Display Morph.

http://wiki.openslate.net/mediawiki/index.php?title=Squeak_X11_Display_Morph


--
Gary Dunn, Honolulu
[hidden email]
http://openslate.net/
http://e9erust.blogspot.com/
Sent from Slate001

Hi Paul,

On 11. 03. 2010 22:51, Paul Baumann wrote:

>>> What do you think?
>
> Big mistake to ask that... :)

Not at all :)

> So "report" is the end goal?

Not a big fancy report for big bosses of course. But a result in some
easy understand form to base further decisions on.

> Consensus doesn't accomplish anything. Many truly great things are not understood by a voting majority. A mixture of pride and reward is required to get work done. Few would anonymously give away great ideas. Who is going to implement a commonly recognized "great" idea that is not their own? Usually the quality and results of work lacking incentive are mediocre at best. What about the destructive personalities that take pride in destroying good ideas? It is those types that love to participate in consensus groups because that is how they derive satisfaction. The outcome of what you are proposing would be the common (mis)understanding of problems. Consensus doesn't mean that understanding is correct. Consensus doesn't mean that what is proposed will really accomplish anything. Consensus doesn't get the goals actually achieved. Consensus work does little more than mimic what someone else already struggled to prove successful--diminishing incentive from people who deserve the
credit. I've never seen anything good come from a consensus.

About consensus: I don't have in mind bad compromises etc, but moving
the initial majory voting result from too frequent 51/49%  slowly closer
to ideal 100/0%. By continuing the argumented debate, revoting etc.
Remember that majory voting usualy leaves a substantial percent of
voters unsatisfied, which is not good and can lead to polarization of a
community. Seeking a consensus is a technique to lower this percent. But
this is also a cultural thing, Japanese are for instance more inclined
to consensus seeking.

About destructive personalities: Anonymity is here to solve and silence
such people, because everyone can say what has in his mind freely,
without fear of exposure and any represalies of any form. Also, the
result of such idea gathering and voting is a strong argument against
such the people. We have just now an example in Squeak community and
with a collection of "ideas" with such a tool I'm sure we'd measure what
a community really think quite precisely and this will be an undeniable
argument against the guy, who thinks that only he knows well, what the
community really think.

About pride and reward: Well, authors of the best ideas at the end can
be announced, but on the other side author of such idea will know that
he wins even if he stays anonymous.

Also remember that such a tool is not good for every possible case. I
think the best is for collecting initial ideas as freely as possible and
measuring the opinion about them from others. This can then be a base
for the real decisions.

Best regards
Janko



--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

Hi Gregory,

On 12. 03. 2010 01:47, Gregory Bourassa wrote:

> Paul has made some criticisms of your idea elsewhere on the thread...and
> some of his points are certainly worth considering.
>
> However,  a system with some of the attributes you describe might be
> implemented as a "fun" tool to experiment with social communities and
> the outcomes of their interactions.   If you take one step of
> abstraction away from "serious" consensus-seeking and make the tool
> configurable enough to support "playing at consensus seeking",   it
> might become a runaway hit.  :-)

It seems so :) Sometimes one needs to dress his idea as a toy to easier
convince the people, I agree, ok, let we make a toy :)

Thanks for that proposal, I'll actually start thinking in this direction!

Janko

--
Janko Mivšek
AIDA/Web
Smalltalk Web Application Server
http://www.aidaweb.si

>>> So "report" is the end goal?
>> Not a big fancy report for big bosses of course. But a result in some easy understand form to base further decisions on.

Yes, communication and understanding is one benefit of a consensus tool. It was too harsh of me to say "no benefit". I wish you all the best on that tool. It is something you believe in, and that is enough to gain my respect.

>> Remember that majority voting usually leaves a substantial percent of
>> voters unsatisfied, which is not good and can lead to polarization of a community.

Interesting that the conversation went there. It has been a personal project of mine to demonstrate a voting system that avoids polarization entirely. If you, or anyone else, is willing to create a website for national attention to demonstrate a new voting system then let me know. It gets to the root of our national problems, but isn't something the established political parties will like. Either party could run with this this idea to help them gain in the next election, but it ultimately means the end of the two party system as we know it so it has to have popular support to remain an issue after the election. A web example would be helpful, but I'm not creative in that way. Not sure what the ad revenues could be from the site, but they'd be all yours.

Paul Baumann
[hidden email]


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