GSoC time
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So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only
we have something for people to do. We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, and so got nothing. For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM. What else might we usefully propose? For instance, I'd like to see a project bringing Reactive Extensions [1] to Squeak. Or a Cap'n Proto [2] implementation, whether through FFI or native. Or maybe there's useful work to be done in the UI department. Suggestions, folks! frank [1] https://rx.codeplex.com/ [2] http://kentonv.github.io/capnproto/ |
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What motivates me to learn vm-dev (besides the fact that it is interesting) is the desire to bring Squeak to a state where it will be embraced by the Linux crowd. Some of the projects I have in mind are: 1. Squeak as X server/client...where launching StartX on linux invokes squeak and the window manager is squeak. 2. In addition to Morphic, I would like to port Chrome (as a plugin, I guess--I don't know enough) so that Seaside could be a desktop. I would love to see a desktop with "renderFooOn: aSeasideWorld 3. In the same idea as 2, use OpenGL 4. I have a broken project of HLA up on SqueakSource (?) that I would like to finish. 5. Emacs interface to the Squeak dev tools (heresy, I know). I do not think that I have the coding chops to do the above yet. that is why I am working on the port of the StackInterpreter to naitve 64 and then 64x64 followed by Cog to native 64. I figure at that point I will be fluent enough to attempt the above. So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only |
Re: [SPAM] [squeak-dev] GSoC time
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
Hi,
I won't use any templates. Here are some of my ideas (maybe some of them are already there, but I don't know about them): 1. Make NativeBoost working in Squeak and make it as easy to use a ctypes in Python. 2. Implement Gtk or Qt bindings for Squeak. 3. Make using Squeak for command line scripting easy. 4. Implement SOAP WebServices framework (a possible start could be SOAPopera). 5. Help to integrate Spoon/Cuis into Squeak. 6. Improve morph layout classes in morphic to make them rock stable and add new features. 7. Add revision tree to Monticello. 8. Implement Amber Smalltalk inside an image (Seaside or not), so one can write everything in one place (the idea is to use the Smalltalk to JavaScript translation engine from Amber to generate scripts sent to a browser when a user views a page). Best wishes, Mateusz Grotek |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only > we have something for people to do. > > We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, > and so got nothing. A good point. > > For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM. Um, that one’s mine. I’m already being paid for that. > What else might we usefully propose? As you mentioned, UI builder. Chris has Maui and it is extremely interesting. HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit hard to do anything with; and it uses some eventy infrastructure that made me grimace a bit. Both or either would be an interesting thing to take as a start, or inspiration, or even counter-example if you’re that way inclined. Extended uses of Plumbin’ - there used to be a pretty neat digital circuit simulator based on the tiles-on-a-grid approach of Plumbin. Bet there are quite a lot of simulations of a similar kind. It could be a neat way to assemble and simulate rules for control systems; for example the programming of a radio control transmitter to make the assorted servos do The Right Thing when you waggle a control stick, button, dial, or lever. This has the advantage of being a Useful Thing for teaching, rather than just a Cool Language Toy. Another approach might be the Scratch style of dragging tiles to build scripts; which come to think of it is sort of a free-form variety of spreadsheet rules instead of a grid-style per Plumbin’. Some things I’d like to se that may already exist or simply need bringing up to date- A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to make the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily. A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still exists and some one even uses it? Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version that non-Squeakers would use! Use of host windows. They’ve been there for almost a decade and … <crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things. There; that’s a couple of university departments of students kept off the streets for the summer. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: RDRI: Rotate Disk Right Immediate |
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On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 1:54 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote: Use of host windows. They’ve been there for almost a decade and … <crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things. This! If we had a HostSystemWindow that could be created with ToolBuilder and contained the existing Morphic widgets, that would be awesome. |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
Tim Rowledge pondered:
> A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still > exists and some one even uses it? This was typed in Celeste, which has been my only email client since late 2004. I have a bunch of fixed which I haven't shared since they are some of the worst code ever written because crashes always happen when I am in a hurry to reply to an email. There are lots of low hanging fruit to make less unreasonable, but a new client might be a better option. > Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email > system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and > filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their > email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version > that non-Squeakers would use! Most people I know currently use web based mail services. I have experience with two (Zimbra and SmartMail) and prefer Celeste. -- Jecel |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit
hard to do anything with. I have used it, and it works well. There are only small glitches when you try to make scrollbars vertical. But it's worth to extend. And it has its own set of widgets. The current version has solved the problem of reinitializing the class. Now it just generates some code inside a method in a class, so you can modify it easily afterwards. |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
On 7 February 2014 18:54, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> So. Some kind people (GSoC) are willing to throw money at us if only >> we have something for people to do. >> >> We really, really ought to propose projects. We did nothing last year, >> and so got nothing. > > A good point. > >> >> For starters, there's work to be done in finishing porting Cog to ARM. > > Um, that one’s mine. I’m already being paid for that. > >> What else might we usefully propose? > > As you mentioned, UI builder. Chris has Maui and it is extremely interesting. HPInstitute has Morphic Designer, which is interesting but I found a bit hard to do anything with; and it uses some eventy infrastructure that made me grimace a bit. Both or either would be an interesting thing to take as a start, or inspiration, or even counter-example if you’re that way inclined. > > Extended uses of Plumbin’ - there used to be a pretty neat digital circuit simulator based on the tiles-on-a-grid approach of Plumbin. Bet there are quite a lot of simulations of a similar kind. It could be a neat way to assemble and simulate rules for control systems; for example the programming of a radio control transmitter to make the assorted servos do The Right Thing when you waggle a control stick, button, dial, or lever. This has the advantage of being a Useful Thing for teaching, rather than just a Cool Language Toy. Another approach might be the Scratch style of dragging tiles to build scripts; which come to think of it is sort of a free-form variety of spreadsheet rules instead of a grid-style per Plumbin’. I had planned to deliberately not comment on any proposals, but I can't help myself: I think it is an _excellent_ idea to get some Useful Thing projects. My personal bias is towards Cool Language Toys, but those are useless without a Useful Thing project to actually put the fancy tech to good use. I would love to see a circuit simulator! frank > Some things I’d like to se that may already exist or simply need bringing up to date- > > A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to make the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily. > > A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still exists and some one even uses it? Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version that non-Squeakers would use! > > Use of host windows. They’ve been there for almost a decade and … <crickets>. Forget grand schemes to do All Host Widgets All The Time; just make decent use of multiple host window areas to display multiple Squeak things. > > > There; that’s a couple of university departments of students kept off the streets for the summer. > > tim > -- > tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim > Strange OpCodes: RDRI: Rotate Disk Right Immediate > > > |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
On 08-02-2014, at 2:33 AM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote: > Tim Rowledge pondered: > >> A decent email facility. I have this vague recollection that Celeste still >> exists and some one even uses it? > > This was typed in Celeste, which has been my only email client since > late 2004. I have a bunch of fixed which I haven't shared since they are > some of the worst code ever written because crashes always happen when I > am in a hurry to reply to an email. There are lots of low hanging fruit > to make less unreasonable, but a new client might be a better option. I thought it might be you. We all know Jecel is quite, quite mad… > >> Again, in a boot-to-Scratch Pi it could be interesting to provide an email >> system. And maybe use Scratch scripting to add rules to it for sorting and >> filing and stuff? And given the utter balls-up that Apple have made of their >> email app in Mavericks recently, maybe now is the time do a good version >> that non-Squeakers would use! > > Most people I know currently use web based mail services. I have > experience with two (Zimbra and SmartMail) and prefer Celeste. I think I’d prefer the original release of Marcel (circa 1995, http://www.riscos.com/the_archive/rol/faqs/antsuite.htm) to pretty much any web based email I’ve ever yet seen. But thinking of Better Email Apps - I want more. I want all my communications in one easy to follow list. Email of course, but tweets, skype texts, SMS, Messages err messages, Facetime video & audio, everything. I have email and iChat mixed conversations lasting years and one has to know that some of the stuff is in iChat files and some in emails. Stupid! Give me a proper database of all my messages of whatever form and a decent way to read/view/edit them. Handle the best available communication route - if someone is only on twitter, send a long email or video message by a means that will work with them. tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: BGL: Branch and Goto Lunch |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
On Fri, Feb 07, 2014 at 10:54:15AM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
> > On 07-02-2014, at 2:13 AM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > What else might we usefully propose? > > A terminal window to talk to your OS command line; there is a way to make > the Pi boot into Scratch but once you do that you have a hard time doing > anything else. A terminal window would mean being able to do things like > `apt-get upgrade scratch` more easily. > Hi Tim, If you are thinking of Linux on Pi, then try loading CommandShell and OSProcess from SqueakMap (or from their repos on squeaksource.com). Then from the toolbar, open Apps -> Squeak Shell. On a unix/linux system, you can set up an account to log directly into Squeak as a replacement for the normal interactive shell, then within the image you can open a Squeak Shell. There are some limitations, for example do not try to use vi or emacs (though you can use the built in command "edit" to edit files in Squeak). But the result is a computer that boots directly into Squeak, and gives you a limited simulation of a unix shell from within the image. Unfortunately, you will not be able to do "sudo apt-get upgrade scratch" because sudo is smart enough to figure out that somebody is doing something outside of a real terminal session(*), but maybe we can figure a way around that. If you are thinking Risc OS, then it is a much more interesting problem. There are stub classes RoscOSProcess, RiscOSProcessAccessor, and ExternalRiscOSProcess, so in theory if we could make those do useful things, then CommandShell would begin working too (though I expect that there would be some file system syntax issues to work out). Now *that* would be a real GSoC challenge. (*) If you try doing something like "$ sudo su -" in your Squeak shell window, you will find your image locked up, waiting on a blocking read. Go to the linux terminal window from which you started Squeak, and type the command "fg" (meaning bring a background process, the Squeak VM, back to the foreground and attach it to your shell. You will then see the prompt from the sudo command, which will look like this: [sudo] password for lewis: Then enter your password, press enter, and Squeak will resume. Of course, this won't help if you logged directly into Squeak with no unix shell, so catch-22. Dave |
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On 08-02-2014, at 12:36 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote: > If you are thinking of Linux on Pi, then try loading CommandShell and OSProcess > from SqueakMap (or from their repos on squeaksource.com). > Ah, of course. > > Unfortunately, you will not be able to do "sudo apt-get upgrade scratch" because > sudo is smart enough to figure out that somebody is doing something outside of > a real terminal session(*), but maybe we can figure a way around that. Hope so, because that would really be the main pint of using it! tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: SDJ: Send all Data to Japan |
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In reply to this post by Frank Shearar-3
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Frank Shearar <[hidden email]> wrote:
I built a circuit/logic simulator using Connectors in the Etoys image and it worked quite nicely. I made a special morph for scaling down parts to make it more space efficient. So I could fx. build a half adder and use it as a prototype. It was fun but had some issues. I'll see if I can dig up the code.
Cheers, Karl
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Re: Celeste (was: GSoC time)
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
Tim Rowledge wrote:
> I thought it might be you. We all know Jecel is quite, quite mad That is one "quite" too few... > I think Id prefer the original release of Marcel (circa 1995, > http://www.riscos.com/the_archive/rol/faqs/antsuite.htm) to pretty > much any web based email Ive ever yet seen. I wasn't able to find any screen shots to get a feel for what it was like. Before Celeste I used KMail for many years. I am not picky and so far the only email client that has really bothered me is Outlook Express (which I still use for an old account). Refusing to show me as much detail as I need is something I can't forgive. > But thinking of Better Email Apps - I want more. I want all my communications > in one easy to follow list. Email of course, but tweets, skype texts, SMS, > Messages err messages, Facetime video & audio, everything. I have email > and iChat mixed conversations lasting years and one has to know that some > of the stuff is in iChat files and some in emails. Stupid! This sounds like a very good project, though far too ambitious for GSoC (though I would say the same of the other ideas that have been proposed as well). Wasn't this what Google Wave was supposed to be about? > Give me a proper database of all my messages of whatever form and > a decent way to read/view/edit them. Handle the best available communication > route - if someone is only on twitter, send a long email or video message by > a means that will work with them. I have my emails from 1988 and from 1990 on (in 1989 and before 1988 I was stuck with floppy only machines and didn't have the disk space to save emails) and they are a very valuable resource to me, but they are in several different formats. Recent stuff in Celeste databases, before that KMail files and (later) KMail directories, mbox files and the first ones as screen dumps (with line noise and all). I have to be very careful to keep Celeste databases below 2GB, which is really annoying. It would be good to import everything into a single place. Integration would be the second step. Just being able to search everything without having to remember if I read it on IRC or got an email would really help, and being able to reply via the proper channel as you suggested would be the third step. -- Jecel |
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In reply to this post by timrowledge
On 09-02-2014, at 12:29 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr. <[hidden email]> wrote: >> I think I’d prefer the original release of Marcel (circa 1995, >> http://www.riscos.com/the_archive/rol/faqs/antsuite.htm) to pretty >> much any web based email I’ve ever yet seen. > > I wasn't able to find any screen shots to get a feel for what it was > like. Before Celeste I used KMail for many years. I am not picky and so > far the only email client that has really bothered me is Outlook Express > (which I still use for an old account). Refusing to show me as much > detail as I need is something I can't forgive Early versions of Marcel simply presented a list of emails. Click on one and it sent an OS message to request your choice of text editor open it. Fortunately even back then StrongEd was freaking amazing, so it wasn’t a bad way to do things. (As an example of how fast an editor can be, StrongEd on a RISCOS Pi can read in all the sources files for the VM in 10-15 secs. It can present a list of all the hits for searching globally for a word usually in less than one screen refresh) > I have to be very > careful to keep Celeste databases below 2GB, which is really annoying. > It would be good to import everything into a single place. How about using Magma? Then all we need is a Spotlight adapter for it so it integrates into OS X nicely. Easy :-) tim -- tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: TDB: Transfer and Drop Bits |
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>> I have to be very
>> careful to keep Celeste databases below 2GB, which is really annoying. >> It would be good to import everything into a single place. > > How about using Magma? Then all we need is a Spotlight adapter for it so it integrates into OS X nicely. Easy :-) Magma's transparency and built-in keyword indexes be ideal for securing and scaling a Celeste model. |
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