GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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Hi nicolai
I can tell that I'm sad about the state of this part of the system. I do not know how I can help fixing this. What is really important is that we protect future brick from this mess. I think that we should have a structure so that people writing code can follow this structure. I worked a lot trying to clean HandMorph (and my code was obsolete because I was too slow to finish it and SDL arrived :) May be one way would be to remove all the old hardcoded bindings. Stef Le 7/8/16 à 21:15, Nicolai Hess a écrit : > Oh well .... > Please take a look at the current implementation of event handling, > just 10 minutes or so. > how we use different (shortcut) event registration > shortcut handling > event handling > some are defined in code, some shortcuts handled by the editor , some > by the morph > some shortcuts are defined on the morph that gets the events, some are > defined on other morphs. > some event (shortcuts spotters dive in / dive out) only works > *because* we have the two shortcut handlers (handleKeystroke: / > dispatchKeystroke:) > > and tell me that it is a good idea to just start introducing something new > > I really think we should clean up what we have now or at least finish > the move to the kmdispatcher event handling. |
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In reply to this post by Tudor Girba-2
Le 7/8/16 à 21:27, Tudor Girba a écrit : > Hi, > >> On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:16 PM, stepharo <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >>>> On Jun 17, 2016, at 6:04 PM, Henrik Johansen <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> #alt_meta ? >>>> - Maps to alt on OSX, ctrl on Win/Linux. >>>> - Can only bind either #meta or #alt_meta + key, or both must bind to same action. >>>> - Can only be applied to a very limited set of keys, (usually those employed in navigation). >>>> (here are *alot* of different keyboard layouts on Mac using alt + key to generate crucial characters, allowing alt + key as shortcut in general is bound to end in disaster sooner or later) >>> Thanks for the input! >>> >>> Indeed, using Alt for Mac for anything else than text is not so nice. However, on Mac we could use Ctrl. To this end, we could introduce a secondaryMeta that maps like this: >>> - Mac: Ctrl >>> - Win: Alt >>> - Linux: Alt >>> >>> What do you think? >> Would be ok but why do we need secondary meta? > Having only one platform-independent modifier would likely not be enough to handle all key combinations we would want. I think that if we would have a second platform-independent modifier would not hurt. ok I see. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> Stef >> >> > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Obvious things are difficult to teach." > > > > > > |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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In reply to this post by Nicolai Hess-3-2
Hi,
> On Aug 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-07 19:58 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > On Aug 7, 2016, at 6:24 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-08-07 16:23 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > Hi, > > > > > On Aug 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-08-07 15:23 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 11:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-08-03 10:02 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 2016, at 9:16 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 23:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-18 20:55 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > Command is an actual key on Mac next to Option(which is Alt) and Control. So, Command is a concrete key and mapping it logically to another key on another platform is mixing semantics. > > > > > > > > > > I propose to have two distinct layers in the image: > > > > > 1. the raw layer is about having a distinct selector for each concrete key that is found on the keyboard. Right now, it seems to me that the VM does a bit of interpretation and mapping, and if it does, I think it should just provide a distinct code for each distinct key. > > > > > 2. the portable layer is about having a couple of selectors (e.g., #meta, #secondaryMeta) that provide consistent mappings to the raw keys. > > > > > > > > > > So, in this way, #command/#control/#alt would belong to layer 1. and #meta/#secondaryMeta (we could find a better name) would belong to layer 2. > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what does that mean for the text navigation mapping in Rubric. Which shortcut should I use? > > > > > > > > > > Any way to take a decision? > > > > > > > > > > I don't really want to wait until we implement a new layer. > > > > > > > > Thanks for the ping. > > > > > > > > I think that you cannot use now properly a uniform shortcut if we do not introduce these “layers”. I also think that we are talking about a couple of methods, so the effort is only in making the decision. I think that given that nobody disagreed, we can go ahead with it. > > > > > > > > For the specific question related to text navigation in Rubric, you could use #meta. > > > > > > > > But how? > > > > If I add this to RubTextEditor class>>#buildShortcutsOn: aBuilder > > > > > > > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #nextWord) > > > > category: RubTextEditor name > > > > default: Character arrowRight meta > > > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorRight: event] > > > > description: 'move to next word'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (aBuilder shortcut: #previousWord) > > > > category: RubTextEditor name > > > > default: Character arrowLeft meta > > > > do: [ :target :morph :event | target editor cursorLeft: event] > > > > description: 'move to the previous word'. > > > > > > > > > > > > we can not dive in/out in spotter. > > > > > > > > This is why I asked: > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > > > cmd+right > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > to > > > > ctrl+right > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > Oh, I see now! > > > > > > The change was made from cmd+right to meta+right in the move of Guille to make all keybindings uniform. > > > > > > If a keybinding would be problematic in Spotter, we could also override the keybinding directly in the Spotter editor, I think. What do you think? > > > > > > what is Spotter editor? if it is the text input field, yes, but you have to overwrite it on this morph > > > > That is what I meant, to define the keys for diving twice, once in the spotter morph and once in the text input field. This should solve the problem, right? > > > > twice ? > > On a second thought, this is probably not needed because the focus should always be in the text input morph :). > > Still, we would only do that after we introduce the “layering”. > > Would this be Ok with you? > > Cheers, > Doru > > Oh well .... > Please take a look at the current implementation of event handling, just 10 minutes or so. > how we use different (shortcut) event registration > shortcut handling > event handling > some are defined in code, some shortcuts handled by the editor , some by the morph > some shortcuts are defined on the morph that gets the events, some are defined on other morphs. > some event (shortcuts spotters dive in / dive out) only works *because* we have the two shortcut handlers (handleKeystroke: / dispatchKeystroke:) > > and tell me that it is a good idea to just start introducing something new > > I really think we should clean up what we have now or at least finish the move to the kmdispatcher event handling. Sure, but I think the two issues are independent from each other. I think that we can add the “layers” that I mentioned on top of what we have right now to offer tools built on top a choice of platform-independent modifiers, and then we can still continue cleaning underneath. I mean, if we change #meta and add #secondaryMeta it should work, not? Or do I miss something? Cheers, Doru > > > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > right now spotter defines the shortcut on the spotter morph. This won' t work > > > if rubtext components define the word-movement with the kmdispatcher. ( I already explained why). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 8:42 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 18:25 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-17 14:35 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > Hi Nicolai, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am a bit removed from the code details at the moment, and I think I need to step back a bit :). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I understand correctly, you are saying that: > > > > > > > 1. defining bindings with #alt does not work on Windows. This means that we should fix this one. Using Cmd should not be a solution here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As far as I know, this is on purpose. A key pressed with windows (left) alt modified is mapped to "command" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from vm source: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * 3) The modifier keys are mapped as follows: > > > > > > > * > > > > > > > * Mac | Win32 > > > > > > > * -------------------- > > > > > > > * Shift -> Shift > > > > > > > * Ctrl -> Ctrl > > > > > > > * Command -> Left ALT > > > > > > > * Option -> Right ALT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (but actually, the right ALT key does not generate any keystrokes (only key down/up) and it is treated as ctrl+alt (windows right Alt key is "Alt Gr”) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm. I think we have to rethink this one because we need two layers of keys: > > > > > > 1. first we should have the raw ones, and > > > > > > > > > > > > what are the "raw" ones? The events the OS generates or the events the VM send out to the image? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. another layer that offers a more logical keys (like meta). > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you explain this a bit more. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. defining the > > > > > > > bindings for Spotter can indeed be made to override the ones in the text editor if needed. But, I think we can start thinking about using #alt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > using alt+right on windows/linux and > > > > > > > command + right on mac > > > > > > > for dive-in or for text navigation? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there a default keycombination for word-moving in text components for mac ? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mac, typically Alt+Right/Left moves between words. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, we would need a logical modifier that would mean: > > > > > > - Mac: Alt > > > > > > - Win: Ctrl > > > > > > - Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > > > > > I though this is what Guillermo already did, but with "command" > > > > > > > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > > - Win/Linux: Ctrl > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did we choose Command and not Alt in the first place, why is Alt now better? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 17, 2016, at 12:12 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-16 22:45 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are mixing the topics a bit. The #meta discussion is not specific to Spotter actions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On windows, it is. Because on windows #meta is mapped to #ctrl, and you can use ctrl+left/right for moving by "words". This works in a browser, an editor, pharos text components but *not* in spotter > > > > > > > > because spotter redefines this keystrokes for dive in /out. > > > > > > > > Currently, both ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right (and shift for selection) are working in rubric for moving by "word". But only because the (old) shortcut (cmd/shiftcmd) action dispatcher > > > > > > > > explicitly allows both. If we want to remove this and use the KMDispatcher framework only, we *need* to define only one mapping, otherwise you won't be able to use dive in/out in spotter. > > > > > > > > (Or you could modify spotter to register(overwrite) the mapping on the textfield instead of the spotter morph). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea was to offer a uniform support of keybindings in Pharo, in general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > exactly, and using ctrl+left/right uniformly in editor and external tools would be great. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then Guille etal added #meta to have a predictable mapping. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and to make this work, we have to remove the old keymapping implementation (cmd/shiftcmd action map) and use the KMDispatcher registration. But I can only continue with this > > > > > > > > if we have a decision what to use, (windows/linux: either ctrl+arrow or alt+arrow, mac: whatever is used on a mac for text navigation) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All #cmd places were changed to #meta, and since then we should not use explicitly #cmd anymore, except when we know we are on Mac. For a portable modifier, we should only use #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point, both Rubric and Spotter use #meta. #meta maps on: > > > > > > > > - Mac: Command > > > > > > > > - Win: Control > > > > > > > > - Linus: Control > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This means that #alt is now a portable modifier that will not conflict with #meta, so we can now think of using that one in combination with #meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can not use #alt modifier on windows. A shortcut definition like > > > > > > > > $g alt > > > > > > > > is never recognized. You have to define it > > > > > > > > $g command > > > > > > > > to make it work with as "alt+g"-keycombination (on windows). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For text navigation, the situation is a bit complicated. On Win/Linux, Ctrl+Right/Left moves the cursor between words. On Mac, Cmd+Right/Left moves the cursor at the end/beginning of line. So, using #meta for text navigation between words is not entirely accurate. We should use #ctrl instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This would anyway mean that it would be an option to use #alt for Spotter now. But, if we are at it, would anyone be interested in working on revisiting the overall keybindings in Pharo? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 16:12 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > We can, but I remember there were some discussions and it was decided to use meta everywhere. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we don't change this, I'll use cmd+left cmd+right in rubric, but this is bad, because all other navigate/select+navigate shortcuts would use meta as shortcut modifier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the arguments for using meta for dive-in/out shortcuts ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 15:08 GMT+02:00 Andrei Chis <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > During Pharo 5 most shortcuts from tools were changed to use "meta" instead of cmd. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Andrei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we change this for spotter ? cmd instead of meta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl left/right is often used for text components to move to next/previous word. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:18 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-06-07 13:57 GMT+02:00 Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 07.06.2016 1:56 nachm. schrieb "Henrik Nergaard" <[hidden email]>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IIRC the shortcut is not changed, it still is meta+right(+shift). Only the tooltip was changed to display the system specific key instead of “cmd” so for Windows/Linux this would be “ctrl”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it changed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In #40624, for example, it was cmd (alt-key on windows ) right/shift right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Henrik > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Pharo-dev [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Nicolai Hess > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 12:56 PM > > > > > > > > > > To: Pharo Development List <[hidden email]> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Pharo-dev] GT-Spotter dive in shortcut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why did the shortcut for dive-in element/category changed from > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cmd+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+right > > > > > > > > > > ctrl+shift+right > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know there were some discussions about this and that the behavior changed some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time ago, but I don't know the rational behind this. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, > > > > > > > > you will end up with a messy haircut." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Quality cannot be an afterthought." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > > > "Being happy is a matter of choice." > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > > > "Every thing has its own flow." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > > > "Don't give to get. Just give." > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?" > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "It's not how it is, it is how we see it." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Beauty is where we see it." |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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2016-08-07 22:59 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: Hi, Hey Doru, about what "two issues" are we talking? My only issue for now is, what shortcut shold we use for moving the cursor forward/backward word. Even if we introduce a new layer, at some point in time you need to define: If the user types the CTRL+LEFT -key, even if we call it differently, some action happens, dive-out or move-backward-word ? At the moment (on windows) you can use both to move word-by-word: ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right, because this is how it is defined in rubrics action/cmdaction map. If we want to clean this up and use the kmdispatcher registration, I think we don't want to use both ctr and alt again, right? So, someone has to take the decision. I myself would prefer ctrl+left/right because this is what (all) many other programs are using on windows. Fine. But recently Spotter changed its dive in / dive out shortcut to use ctrl+left/right. Therefor I am asking you, why, and whether we want to keep it or not. If we want to keep it, we may - just overwrite the binding for the textfield -> not good, I think, you wouldn't be able to do word-by-word movements in the textfield anymore - overwrite the binding and use another binding for word-by-word moving, but just in spotters text field Or we revert that change and use the old shortcuts again. (And what to use for mac and linux?) but I am getting really tired of asking, and will do something else instead. |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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Hi,
> > Hey Doru, > about what "two issues" are we talking? My only issue for now is, > what shortcut shold we use for moving the cursor forward/backward word. Even if we introduce a new layer, at some point in time you need to > define: If the user types the CTRL+LEFT -key, even if we call it differently, some action happens, dive-out or move-backward-word ? > At the moment (on windows) you can use both to move word-by-word: > ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right, because this is how it is defined in rubrics action/cmdaction map. > > If we want to clean this up and use the kmdispatcher registration, I think we don't want to use both ctr and alt again, right? > So, someone has to take the decision. > I myself would prefer > ctrl+left/right because this is what (all) many other programs are using on windows. Fine. But recently Spotter changed its > dive in / dive out shortcut to use ctrl+left/right. > Therefor I am asking you, why, and whether we want to keep it or not. If we want to keep it, we may > - just overwrite the binding for the textfield -> not good, I think, you wouldn't be able to do word-by-word movements in the textfield anymore > - overwrite the binding and use another binding for word-by-word moving, but just in spotters text field > Or we revert that change and use the old shortcuts again. > (And what to use for mac and linux?) > > but I am getting really tired of asking, and will do something else instead. The short answer: we will override the keybinding in the text morph for now. This will mean that we cannot move word by word in the text field using #control, but it will be consistent with all other platforms. Could you open an issue for this, please? On top of that, we will externalize all GTSpotter shortcuts through settings: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18455/Spotter-shortcuts-should-be-externalized-as-settings Long answer: As explained before, the shortcut changed in the process of making all shortcuts uniform when Guille introduced #meta instead of #command (like it was before). The thing is that currently: - #command means #alt on Win and #command on Mac, and - #meta means #control on Win and #command on Mac. But, #command should be a low level key, not a portable one. It should not have a meaning on Windows, because the key does not exist on that platform. Moving to make keybindings uniform is a good thing, but only having #meta is not enough for situation like the one you mention. That is why I am proposing to introduce a #secondaryMeta as a platform-independent modifier that would mean #alt on Win and #control on Mac. We could use that one more consistently. Is this a better explanation? Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Presenting is storytelling." |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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2016-08-09 18:12 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: Hi, consistens on all platforms may not be the expectation for all users. Some users only working on a windows platform may want to have consistent behavior for all tools (applications). On top of that, we will externalize all GTSpotter shortcuts through settings: I really don't know why that. We don't need a way to make Spotter shortcuts configurable, but *all* shortcuts. That is why I try to move all shortcut definitions to the kmdispatcher, but it yet again took 2 month just to discuss what shortcut to use for cursor movement.
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Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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Hi,
> On Aug 9, 2016, at 10:48 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-09 18:12 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > Hi, > > > > > Hey Doru, > > about what "two issues" are we talking? My only issue for now is, > > what shortcut shold we use for moving the cursor forward/backward word. Even if we introduce a new layer, at some point in time you need to > > define: If the user types the CTRL+LEFT -key, even if we call it differently, some action happens, dive-out or move-backward-word ? > > At the moment (on windows) you can use both to move word-by-word: > > ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right, because this is how it is defined in rubrics action/cmdaction map. > > > > If we want to clean this up and use the kmdispatcher registration, I think we don't want to use both ctr and alt again, right? > > So, someone has to take the decision. > > I myself would prefer > > ctrl+left/right because this is what (all) many other programs are using on windows. Fine. But recently Spotter changed its > > dive in / dive out shortcut to use ctrl+left/right. > > Therefor I am asking you, why, and whether we want to keep it or not. If we want to keep it, we may > > - just overwrite the binding for the textfield -> not good, I think, you wouldn't be able to do word-by-word movements in the textfield anymore > > - overwrite the binding and use another binding for word-by-word moving, but just in spotters text field > > Or we revert that change and use the old shortcuts again. > > (And what to use for mac and linux?) > > > > but I am getting really tired of asking, and will do something else instead. > > The short answer: we will override the keybinding in the text morph for now. This will mean that we cannot move word by word in the text field using #control, but it will be consistent with all other platforms. Could you open an issue for this, please? > > > consistens on all platforms may not be the expectation for all users. Some users only working on a windows platform may want to have consistent behavior for all tools (applications). Well, you wanted a decision :). > On top of that, we will externalize all GTSpotter shortcuts through settings: > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18455/Spotter-shortcuts-should-be-externalized-as-settings > > I really don't know why that. Because we do not have a generic KMDispatcher mechanism :). > We don't need a way to make Spotter shortcuts configurable, but *all* shortcuts. > That is why I try to move all shortcut definitions to the kmdispatcher, but it yet again took 2 month just to discuss what shortcut to use for cursor movement. I am not sure I understand. Was this me that stalled the discussion? If yes, it was not intentional. Is there anything I can do about this subject? Cheers, Doru > > Long answer: As explained before, the shortcut changed in the process of making all shortcuts uniform when Guille introduced #meta instead of #command (like it was before). The thing is that currently: > - #command means #alt on Win and #command on Mac, and > - #meta means #control on Win and #command on Mac. > > But, #command should be a low level key, not a portable one. It should not have a meaning on Windows, because the key does not exist on that platform. > > Moving to make keybindings uniform is a good thing, but only having #meta is not enough for situation like the one you mention. That is why I am proposing to introduce a #secondaryMeta as a platform-independent modifier that would mean #alt on Win and #control on Mac. We could use that one more consistently. Is this a better explanation? > > Cheers, > Doru > > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Presenting is storytelling." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "One cannot do more than one can do." |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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2016-08-09 22:53 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: Hi, yes and it does not make much sense as not all shortcuts are handled by the kmdispatcher, thats why cleaning this up and I think it would be better to do this instead of implementing yet another only-for-this-tool solution.
The whole discussion, the me: "hey, what shortcut to use?" you:"hey we have a great idea, just let us add some new layers" :(
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Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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Hi,
> On Aug 9, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-09 22:53 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > Hi, > > > On Aug 9, 2016, at 10:48 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-08-09 18:12 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Hey Doru, > > > about what "two issues" are we talking? My only issue for now is, > > > what shortcut shold we use for moving the cursor forward/backward word. Even if we introduce a new layer, at some point in time you need to > > > define: If the user types the CTRL+LEFT -key, even if we call it differently, some action happens, dive-out or move-backward-word ? > > > At the moment (on windows) you can use both to move word-by-word: > > > ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right, because this is how it is defined in rubrics action/cmdaction map. > > > > > > If we want to clean this up and use the kmdispatcher registration, I think we don't want to use both ctr and alt again, right? > > > So, someone has to take the decision. > > > I myself would prefer > > > ctrl+left/right because this is what (all) many other programs are using on windows. Fine. But recently Spotter changed its > > > dive in / dive out shortcut to use ctrl+left/right. > > > Therefor I am asking you, why, and whether we want to keep it or not. If we want to keep it, we may > > > - just overwrite the binding for the textfield -> not good, I think, you wouldn't be able to do word-by-word movements in the textfield anymore > > > - overwrite the binding and use another binding for word-by-word moving, but just in spotters text field > > > Or we revert that change and use the old shortcuts again. > > > (And what to use for mac and linux?) > > > > > > but I am getting really tired of asking, and will do something else instead. > > > > The short answer: we will override the keybinding in the text morph for now. This will mean that we cannot move word by word in the text field using #control, but it will be consistent with all other platforms. Could you open an issue for this, please? > > > > > > consistens on all platforms may not be the expectation for all users. Some users only working on a windows platform may want to have consistent behavior for all tools (applications). > > Well, you wanted a decision :). > > > > On top of that, we will externalize all GTSpotter shortcuts through settings: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18455/Spotter-shortcuts-should-be-externalized-as-settings > > > > I really don't know why that. > > Because we do not have a generic KMDispatcher mechanism :). > > yes and it does not make much sense as not all shortcuts are handled by the kmdispatcher, thats why cleaning this > up and I think it would be better to do this instead of implementing yet another only-for-this-tool solution. Ok. What should I do? > > We don't need a way to make Spotter shortcuts configurable, but *all* shortcuts. > > That is why I try to move all shortcut definitions to the kmdispatcher, but it yet again took 2 month just to discuss what shortcut to use for cursor movement. > > I am not sure I understand. Was this me that stalled the discussion? If yes, it was not intentional. Is there anything I can do about this subject? > > The whole discussion, the me: "hey, what shortcut to use?" you:"hey we have a great idea, just let us add some new layers" :( I think I miss something because I do not see how the layers have anything to do with the cursor movement. Or do you mean for diving in Spotter? I still think that the layers idea is a relevant one and does not conflict with anything we talked about here. In any case, I did not mean to confuse anyone. Please take the lead concerning the KMDispatcher and I can review if you want. Doru > Cheers, > Doru > > > > > > Long answer: As explained before, the shortcut changed in the process of making all shortcuts uniform when Guille introduced #meta instead of #command (like it was before). The thing is that currently: > > - #command means #alt on Win and #command on Mac, and > > - #meta means #control on Win and #command on Mac. > > > > But, #command should be a low level key, not a portable one. It should not have a meaning on Windows, because the key does not exist on that platform. > > > > Moving to make keybindings uniform is a good thing, but only having #meta is not enough for situation like the one you mention. That is why I am proposing to introduce a #secondaryMeta as a platform-independent modifier that would mean #alt on Win and #control on Mac. We could use that one more consistently. Is this a better explanation? > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "Presenting is storytelling." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "One cannot do more than one can do." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "When people care, great things can happen." |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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2016-08-09 23:36 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: Hi, Ok once again. ctrl+arrow and meta+arrow both do cursor movements in rubrik, but it is registered on the action/cmd-map (RubTextEditor>>defaultCommandKeymapping) ctrl+arrow do dive-in/dive-out in spotter, this is registered on spotters window, and this takes precedence over rubrics crtrl+Arrow handling because : 1. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics editor kmregistry -> no action 2. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics morph kmregistry -> no action .... up the morphs owner chain until it reaches spotter x. kmdispatcher looks in spotters window morph kmregistry -> Action! Dive-in / Dive-out Now! If I move ctrl+Arrow shortcut registration for cursor movement from rubrics action/-cmd-map to its kmdispatcher registration, the following happens 1. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics editor kmregistry -> Action ! move the cursor -> no spotter dive-in/dive-out anymore :-( two solutions: use a different shortcut for cursor movement (that is what I aksed in this thread, and why I opened issue 18432) use a different shortcut for spotter (this is why I started this thread and asked why this was changed at all) overwrite spotters shortcut registration (just like now, but not on spotters window, but on the text field (I opened now a fogbugz issue 18900)) anyway, you said, you want to wait with changing spotters shortcut registration until we have the new layers, therefore I can only wait until that happens.
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Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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Oh man :). Ok I think got it now. Thanks for the patience. I see the confusion: the agreement was that we will override the shortcut in the Spotter text-input. So, let’s go for this.
The layering thing was supposed to be a separate issue. Cheers, Doru > On Aug 10, 2016, at 12:05 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > 2016-08-09 23:36 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > Hi, > > > On Aug 9, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2016-08-09 22:53 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > Hi, > > > > > On Aug 9, 2016, at 10:48 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > 2016-08-09 18:12 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Doru, > > > > about what "two issues" are we talking? My only issue for now is, > > > > what shortcut shold we use for moving the cursor forward/backward word. Even if we introduce a new layer, at some point in time you need to > > > > define: If the user types the CTRL+LEFT -key, even if we call it differently, some action happens, dive-out or move-backward-word ? > > > > At the moment (on windows) you can use both to move word-by-word: > > > > ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right, because this is how it is defined in rubrics action/cmdaction map. > > > > > > > > If we want to clean this up and use the kmdispatcher registration, I think we don't want to use both ctr and alt again, right? > > > > So, someone has to take the decision. > > > > I myself would prefer > > > > ctrl+left/right because this is what (all) many other programs are using on windows. Fine. But recently Spotter changed its > > > > dive in / dive out shortcut to use ctrl+left/right. > > > > Therefor I am asking you, why, and whether we want to keep it or not. If we want to keep it, we may > > > > - just overwrite the binding for the textfield -> not good, I think, you wouldn't be able to do word-by-word movements in the textfield anymore > > > > - overwrite the binding and use another binding for word-by-word moving, but just in spotters text field > > > > Or we revert that change and use the old shortcuts again. > > > > (And what to use for mac and linux?) > > > > > > > > but I am getting really tired of asking, and will do something else instead. > > > > > > The short answer: we will override the keybinding in the text morph for now. This will mean that we cannot move word by word in the text field using #control, but it will be consistent with all other platforms. Could you open an issue for this, please? > > > > > > > > > consistens on all platforms may not be the expectation for all users. Some users only working on a windows platform may want to have consistent behavior for all tools (applications). > > > > Well, you wanted a decision :). > > > > > > > On top of that, we will externalize all GTSpotter shortcuts through settings: > > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18455/Spotter-shortcuts-should-be-externalized-as-settings > > > > > > I really don't know why that. > > > > Because we do not have a generic KMDispatcher mechanism :). > > > > yes and it does not make much sense as not all shortcuts are handled by the kmdispatcher, thats why cleaning this > > up and I think it would be better to do this instead of implementing yet another only-for-this-tool solution. > > Ok. What should I do? > > > > > We don't need a way to make Spotter shortcuts configurable, but *all* shortcuts. > > > That is why I try to move all shortcut definitions to the kmdispatcher, but it yet again took 2 month just to discuss what shortcut to use for cursor movement. > > > > I am not sure I understand. Was this me that stalled the discussion? If yes, it was not intentional. Is there anything I can do about this subject? > > > > The whole discussion, the me: "hey, what shortcut to use?" you:"hey we have a great idea, just let us add some new layers" :( > > I think I miss something because I do not see how the layers have anything to do with the cursor movement. Or do you mean for diving in Spotter? I still think that the layers idea is a relevant one and does not conflict with anything we talked about here. > > Ok once again. > ctrl+arrow and meta+arrow both do cursor movements in rubrik, but it is registered on the action/cmd-map (RubTextEditor>>defaultCommandKeymapping) > ctrl+arrow do dive-in/dive-out in spotter, this is registered on spotters window, and this takes precedence over rubrics crtrl+Arrow handling because : > > 1. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics editor kmregistry -> no action > 2. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics morph kmregistry -> no action > .... up the morphs owner chain until it reaches spotter > x. kmdispatcher looks in spotters window morph kmregistry -> Action! Dive-in / Dive-out > > Now! If I move ctrl+Arrow shortcut registration for cursor movement from rubrics action/-cmd-map to its kmdispatcher registration, the following happens > 1. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics editor kmregistry -> Action ! move the cursor > > -> no spotter dive-in/dive-out anymore :-( > > two solutions: > use a different shortcut for cursor movement (that is what I aksed in this thread, and why I opened issue 18432) > use a different shortcut for spotter (this is why I started this thread and asked why this was changed at all) > overwrite spotters shortcut registration (just like now, but not on spotters window, but on the text field (I opened now a fogbugz issue 18900)) > > anyway, you said, you want to wait with changing spotters shortcut registration until we have the new layers, therefore I can only wait until that > happens. > > > > > In any case, I did not mean to confuse anyone. Please take the lead concerning the KMDispatcher and I can review if you want. > > Doru > > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > > > > > Long answer: As explained before, the shortcut changed in the process of making all shortcuts uniform when Guille introduced #meta instead of #command (like it was before). The thing is that currently: > > > - #command means #alt on Win and #command on Mac, and > > > - #meta means #control on Win and #command on Mac. > > > > > > But, #command should be a low level key, not a portable one. It should not have a meaning on Windows, because the key does not exist on that platform. > > > > > > Moving to make keybindings uniform is a good thing, but only having #meta is not enough for situation like the one you mention. That is why I am proposing to introduce a #secondaryMeta as a platform-independent modifier that would mean #alt on Win and #control on Mac. We could use that one more consistently. Is this a better explanation? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Doru > > > > > > > > > -- > > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > www.feenk.com > > > > > > "Presenting is storytelling." > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > www.feenk.com > > > > "One cannot do more than one can do." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "When people care, great things can happen." -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." |
Re: GT-Spotter dive in shortcut
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Hi Nicolai,
Did we clarify this issue? Is there something else I can help (or maybe to disturb/annoy :)) with ? Cheers, Doru > On Aug 10, 2016, at 5:11 PM, Tudor Girba <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Oh man :). Ok I think got it now. Thanks for the patience. I see the confusion: the agreement was that we will override the shortcut in the Spotter text-input. So, let’s go for this. > > The layering thing was supposed to be a separate issue. > > Cheers, > Doru > > > >> On Aug 10, 2016, at 12:05 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> 2016-08-09 23:36 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: >> Hi, >> >>> On Aug 9, 2016, at 11:31 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> 2016-08-09 22:53 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: >>> Hi, >>> >>>> On Aug 9, 2016, at 10:48 PM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2016-08-09 18:12 GMT+02:00 Tudor Girba <[hidden email]>: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hey Doru, >>>>> about what "two issues" are we talking? My only issue for now is, >>>>> what shortcut shold we use for moving the cursor forward/backward word. Even if we introduce a new layer, at some point in time you need to >>>>> define: If the user types the CTRL+LEFT -key, even if we call it differently, some action happens, dive-out or move-backward-word ? >>>>> At the moment (on windows) you can use both to move word-by-word: >>>>> ctrl+left/right and alt+left/right, because this is how it is defined in rubrics action/cmdaction map. >>>>> >>>>> If we want to clean this up and use the kmdispatcher registration, I think we don't want to use both ctr and alt again, right? >>>>> So, someone has to take the decision. >>>>> I myself would prefer >>>>> ctrl+left/right because this is what (all) many other programs are using on windows. Fine. But recently Spotter changed its >>>>> dive in / dive out shortcut to use ctrl+left/right. >>>>> Therefor I am asking you, why, and whether we want to keep it or not. If we want to keep it, we may >>>>> - just overwrite the binding for the textfield -> not good, I think, you wouldn't be able to do word-by-word movements in the textfield anymore >>>>> - overwrite the binding and use another binding for word-by-word moving, but just in spotters text field >>>>> Or we revert that change and use the old shortcuts again. >>>>> (And what to use for mac and linux?) >>>>> >>>>> but I am getting really tired of asking, and will do something else instead. >>>> >>>> The short answer: we will override the keybinding in the text morph for now. This will mean that we cannot move word by word in the text field using #control, but it will be consistent with all other platforms. Could you open an issue for this, please? >>>> >>>> >>>> consistens on all platforms may not be the expectation for all users. Some users only working on a windows platform may want to have consistent behavior for all tools (applications). >>> >>> Well, you wanted a decision :). >>> >>> >>>> On top of that, we will externalize all GTSpotter shortcuts through settings: >>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18455/Spotter-shortcuts-should-be-externalized-as-settings >>>> >>>> I really don't know why that. >>> >>> Because we do not have a generic KMDispatcher mechanism :). >>> >>> yes and it does not make much sense as not all shortcuts are handled by the kmdispatcher, thats why cleaning this >>> up and I think it would be better to do this instead of implementing yet another only-for-this-tool solution. >> >> Ok. What should I do? >> >> >>>> We don't need a way to make Spotter shortcuts configurable, but *all* shortcuts. >>>> That is why I try to move all shortcut definitions to the kmdispatcher, but it yet again took 2 month just to discuss what shortcut to use for cursor movement. >>> >>> I am not sure I understand. Was this me that stalled the discussion? If yes, it was not intentional. Is there anything I can do about this subject? >>> >>> The whole discussion, the me: "hey, what shortcut to use?" you:"hey we have a great idea, just let us add some new layers" :( >> >> I think I miss something because I do not see how the layers have anything to do with the cursor movement. Or do you mean for diving in Spotter? I still think that the layers idea is a relevant one and does not conflict with anything we talked about here. >> >> Ok once again. >> ctrl+arrow and meta+arrow both do cursor movements in rubrik, but it is registered on the action/cmd-map (RubTextEditor>>defaultCommandKeymapping) >> ctrl+arrow do dive-in/dive-out in spotter, this is registered on spotters window, and this takes precedence over rubrics crtrl+Arrow handling because : >> >> 1. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics editor kmregistry -> no action >> 2. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics morph kmregistry -> no action >> .... up the morphs owner chain until it reaches spotter >> x. kmdispatcher looks in spotters window morph kmregistry -> Action! Dive-in / Dive-out >> >> Now! If I move ctrl+Arrow shortcut registration for cursor movement from rubrics action/-cmd-map to its kmdispatcher registration, the following happens >> 1. kmdispatcher looks in rubrics editor kmregistry -> Action ! move the cursor >> >> -> no spotter dive-in/dive-out anymore :-( >> >> two solutions: >> use a different shortcut for cursor movement (that is what I aksed in this thread, and why I opened issue 18432) >> use a different shortcut for spotter (this is why I started this thread and asked why this was changed at all) >> overwrite spotters shortcut registration (just like now, but not on spotters window, but on the text field (I opened now a fogbugz issue 18900)) >> >> anyway, you said, you want to wait with changing spotters shortcut registration until we have the new layers, therefore I can only wait until that >> happens. >> >> >> >> >> In any case, I did not mean to confuse anyone. Please take the lead concerning the KMDispatcher and I can review if you want. >> >> Doru >> >> >> >>> Cheers, >>> Doru >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Long answer: As explained before, the shortcut changed in the process of making all shortcuts uniform when Guille introduced #meta instead of #command (like it was before). The thing is that currently: >>>> - #command means #alt on Win and #command on Mac, and >>>> - #meta means #control on Win and #command on Mac. >>>> >>>> But, #command should be a low level key, not a portable one. It should not have a meaning on Windows, because the key does not exist on that platform. >>>> >>>> Moving to make keybindings uniform is a good thing, but only having #meta is not enough for situation like the one you mention. That is why I am proposing to introduce a #secondaryMeta as a platform-independent modifier that would mean #alt on Win and #control on Mac. We could use that one more consistently. Is this a better explanation? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Doru >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> www.tudorgirba.com >>>> www.feenk.com >>>> >>>> "Presenting is storytelling." >>> >>> -- >>> www.tudorgirba.com >>> www.feenk.com >>> >>> "One cannot do more than one can do." >> >> -- >> www.tudorgirba.com >> www.feenk.com >> >> "When people care, great things can happen." > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com > www.feenk.com > > "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Problem solving efficiency grows with the abstractness level of problem understanding." |
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