How to create a minimal image ?
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I remember that the website used to link to a minimal image download but it does not seem there is one anymore
Is still minimal image maintained ? Are there ways to make a image minimal ? Are there any tools for this job ? Is there any kind of documentation about this ? |
Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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look for bootstrapped image.
And we have a github repo and jenkins job to produce it. Stef On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote: > I remember that the website used to link to a minimal image download but it > does not seem there is one anymore > > Is still minimal image maintained ? > Are there ways to make a image minimal ? > Are there any tools for this job ? > Is there any kind of documentation about this ? |
Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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is this the jenkis job you talking about ? does the image work ? is it usable ? On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 9:45 PM Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote: look for bootstrapped image. |
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Le 26/08/2017 à 21:43, Dimitris Chloupis a écrit :
> is this the jenkis job you talking about ? > https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/view/7.0/job/70-Bootstrap-32bit/ > > does the image work ? is it usable ? > Not sure but I think it is more this CI: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/ -- Cyril Ferlicot https://ferlicot.fr http://www.synectique.eu 2 rue Jacques Prévert 01, 59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France |
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
2017-08-26 19:31 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>:
yes, as part of the bootstrap process
it is created in bootstrap/scripts/build.sh under name Pharo7.0-metacello-* and saved on files.pharo.org as So you do not need to do it by yourself. -- Pavel |
Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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hmm does not work for me, it open the icon of pharo on macos sierra dock and it stays there doing nothing right clicking on it and choosing quit does nothing, so I am have to use force quit to make it close I have downloaded pharo 6.1 from the website, default download, 32 bit, minimal 32 bit image. I drag and drop image on top of pharo. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:29 AM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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The minimal image is headless image without any GUI. It is useless to try to open it this way. -- Pavel 2017-08-28 13:03 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>:
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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oh , then its not what I am thinking as minimal image. Pity, oh well , I will wait for bootstrap to mature then :) On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:09 PM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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What do you expect from such minimal image? Because we can produce several intermediate steps on the way to the standard full Pharo image (BaselineOfMorphicCore, BaselineOfMorphic, BaselineOfUI, BaselineOfBasicTools...) -- Pavel 2017-08-28 13:17 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>:
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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for me Pharo and GUI go hand in hand, I cannot imagine Pharo without GUI. I also despise the command line. Plus once you remove the GUI you kill the very essence of Smalltalk.
But if that is what you(you as all people who support this) like and need, that's your choice and I respect that. Even back in the 80s when almost everything was command lines , I was drooling over Amiga's 500 beautiful coloured GUIs. It started my fascination with computer graphics and later 3d graphics and sound. So me and the GUI are very old friends and we go hand in hand :) Of course I understand if we want to go super minimal the GUI has to go together with many other things that make Pharo what it is. But I dont care for such extremes. I just wanted to reduce the fat. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:24 PM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> wrote:
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
Hi Pavel,
Can you show how to produce an image without the following packages? Tests Spotter Glamour/GT Metacello AST/Refactoring Cheers, Hernán 2017-08-28 8:24 GMT-03:00 Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]>: > What do you expect from such minimal image? Because we can produce several > intermediate steps on the way to the standard full Pharo image > (BaselineOfMorphicCore, BaselineOfMorphic, BaselineOfUI, > BaselineOfBasicTools...) > > -- Pavel > > 2017-08-28 13:17 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >> >> oh , then its not what I am thinking as minimal image. Pity, oh well , I >> will wait for bootstrap to mature then :) >> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:09 PM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >>> >>> The minimal image is headless image without any GUI. It is useless to try >>> to open it this way. >>> >>> -- Pavel >>> >>> 2017-08-28 13:03 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>>> >>>> hmm does not work for me, it open the icon of pharo on macos sierra dock >>>> and it stays there doing nothing >>>> right clicking on it and choosing quit does nothing, so I am have to use >>>> force quit to make it close >>>> >>>> I have downloaded pharo 6.1 from the website, default download, 32 bit, >>>> minimal 32 bit image. I drag and drop image on top of pharo. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:29 AM Pavel Krivanek >>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> 2017-08-26 19:31 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>>>>> >>>>>> I remember that the website used to link to a minimal image download >>>>>> but it does not seem there is one anymore >>>>>> >>>>>> Is still minimal image maintained ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> yes, as part of the bootstrap process >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Are there ways to make a image minimal ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> it is created in bootstrap/scripts/build.sh under name >>>>> Pharo7.0-metacello-* and saved on files.pharo.org as >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-32.zip or >>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-64.zip >>>>> >>>>> So you do not need to do it by yourself. >>>>> >>>>> -- Pavel >>> >>> > |
Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
Hi Pavel,
what would be the expression for building such an intermediate image out of the minimal image? This? Metacello new baseline: 'BasicTools'; repository: 'github://pharo-project/pharo:master/src'; load Regards, Thierry 2017-08-28 13:24 GMT+02:00 Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]>:
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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It is not that simple. The baseline expects that you will have a pharo repository clone in a folder named 'pharo-core' in your working directory. Then you need data like files or icons. set -e unzip pharo-core/resources/fonts/BitmapDejaVuSans.fuel -d . mkdir icon-packs cd icon-packs cd .. pharo Pharo7.0-metacello-32bit-82ecd43.image --no-default-preferences eval --save "Metacello new baseline: 'UI';repository: 'filetree://pharo-core/src'; load" Unfortunatelly the resultant image is not usable - it immediately falls into the emergency evaluator - because of the dependencies on translation and fast table. We need to provide some care to it again because it is not generated regularly -> it gets quickly broken. -- Pavel 2017-08-28 13:47 GMT+02:00 Thierry Goubier <[hidden email]>:
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by hernanmd
2017-08-28 13:43 GMT+02:00 Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]>: Hi Pavel, Sorry, I cannot. We are still not in the state where is possible to configure our image this way. The graph of the package dependencies is still too complex. -- Pavel
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
2017-08-28 14:41 GMT+02:00 Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]>:
Thanks.
Understood. I think it may have an overall huge benefit by making the system far more modular once done. But maybe, for it to work effectively, one needs to have a usable minimal image with the GUI and very simple core tools. Regards, Thierry
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
2017-08-28 13:33 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>:
We want Pharo without GUI to have better Pharo with GUI :-) -- Pavel
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Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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+1.000.000 I am a huge fan of the bootstrap project and of course it goes far beyond the GUI. For me it's No1 in my list of my favorite new features for Pharo. I am pretty sure it will also eliminate a ton of spaghetti code and make the image far easier to understand. |
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In reply to this post by Pavel Krivanek-3
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> wrote:
A super-simple-GUI in a minimal image step could later provide Emergency Tools facilities, so would not be redundant code (I've not been much successful using the current Emergency Evaluator.) Perhaps even a REPL like interface. Editing could be done in an external editor and pasted into the REPL in this form... . SomeClass>>#someMethod self doStuff. Are Bloc and Brick going to be loadable separately? How big is Bloc on its own? Would it (or some core subset of it) form a good basis for new Emergency Tools, or should they completely separate? A decision tree might be useful to see the overlap of different design options here showing the size of each bootstrap step. cheers -ben |
Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by hernanmd
If you remove AST you will not get the compiler working at all.
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Hernán Morales Durand <[hidden email]> wrote: > Hi Pavel, > > Can you show how to produce an image without the following packages? > > Tests > Spotter > Glamour/GT > Metacello > AST/Refactoring > > Cheers, > > Hernán > > > 2017-08-28 8:24 GMT-03:00 Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]>: >> What do you expect from such minimal image? Because we can produce several >> intermediate steps on the way to the standard full Pharo image >> (BaselineOfMorphicCore, BaselineOfMorphic, BaselineOfUI, >> BaselineOfBasicTools...) >> >> -- Pavel >> >> 2017-08-28 13:17 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>> >>> oh , then its not what I am thinking as minimal image. Pity, oh well , I >>> will wait for bootstrap to mature then :) >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:09 PM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The minimal image is headless image without any GUI. It is useless to try >>>> to open it this way. >>>> >>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>>> 2017-08-28 13:03 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>>>> >>>>> hmm does not work for me, it open the icon of pharo on macos sierra dock >>>>> and it stays there doing nothing >>>>> right clicking on it and choosing quit does nothing, so I am have to use >>>>> force quit to make it close >>>>> >>>>> I have downloaded pharo 6.1 from the website, default download, 32 bit, >>>>> minimal 32 bit image. I drag and drop image on top of pharo. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:29 AM Pavel Krivanek >>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> 2017-08-26 19:31 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I remember that the website used to link to a minimal image download >>>>>>> but it does not seem there is one anymore >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is still minimal image maintained ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> yes, as part of the bootstrap process >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are there ways to make a image minimal ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> it is created in bootstrap/scripts/build.sh under name >>>>>> Pharo7.0-metacello-* and saved on files.pharo.org as >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-32.zip or >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-64.zip >>>>>> >>>>>> So you do not need to do it by yourself. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>>> >> > |
Re: How to create a minimal image ?
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In reply to this post by kilon.alios
We are talking about **Pharo Core** and we will reduce it even more.
Then you can load the UI. And no UI is not the very essence of Smalltalk. You can connect remotely to a live kernel and program it and this is still a live system. On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote: > for me Pharo and GUI go hand in hand, I cannot imagine Pharo without GUI. I > also despise the command line. Plus once you remove the GUI you kill the > very essence of Smalltalk. > > But if that is what you(you as all people who support this) like and need, > that's your choice and I respect that. > > Even back in the 80s when almost everything was command lines , I was > drooling over Amiga's 500 beautiful coloured GUIs. It started my fascination > with computer graphics and later 3d graphics and sound. > > So me and the GUI are very old friends and we go hand in hand :) > > Of course I understand if we want to go super minimal the GUI has to go > together with many other things that make Pharo what it is. But I dont care > for such extremes. I just wanted to reduce the fat. > > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:24 PM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> > wrote: >> >> What do you expect from such minimal image? Because we can produce several >> intermediate steps on the way to the standard full Pharo image >> (BaselineOfMorphicCore, BaselineOfMorphic, BaselineOfUI, >> BaselineOfBasicTools...) >> >> -- Pavel >> >> 2017-08-28 13:17 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>> >>> oh , then its not what I am thinking as minimal image. Pity, oh well , I >>> will wait for bootstrap to mature then :) >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:09 PM Pavel Krivanek <[hidden email]> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The minimal image is headless image without any GUI. It is useless to >>>> try to open it this way. >>>> >>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>>> 2017-08-28 13:03 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>>>> >>>>> hmm does not work for me, it open the icon of pharo on macos sierra >>>>> dock and it stays there doing nothing >>>>> right clicking on it and choosing quit does nothing, so I am have to >>>>> use force quit to make it close >>>>> >>>>> I have downloaded pharo 6.1 from the website, default download, 32 bit, >>>>> minimal 32 bit image. I drag and drop image on top of pharo. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 10:29 AM Pavel Krivanek >>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> 2017-08-26 19:31 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I remember that the website used to link to a minimal image download >>>>>>> but it does not seem there is one anymore >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is still minimal image maintained ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> yes, as part of the bootstrap process >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are there ways to make a image minimal ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> it is created in bootstrap/scripts/build.sh under name >>>>>> Pharo7.0-metacello-* and saved on files.pharo.org as >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-32.zip or >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/image/70/latest-minimal-64.zip >>>>>> >>>>>> So you do not need to do it by yourself. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Pavel >>>> >>>> >> > |
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