I/O in latest Squeak

Hello everyone!

Does the current cog spur 64-it VM use polling I/O? Or is some other
mechanism used?

Kindly,
rabbit

Hey y'all, there is a discussion thread on this article [1] about Smalltalk on a Pi. I commented pointing to Squeak on a Pi. Another commenter made this statement and I wish to respond.

I used a Squeak variant to test hardware and prototype UI ideas. Ran like a champ on bare bones 68000, PPC & ARM boards.

The only critique I have of using Squeak out of the box is it’s original VM used polling for I/O. I’m sure there are VMs by now that don’t have this problem. And message dispatch is a bit of a pig in terms of power usage. But again, a properly JITted Smalltalk VM should be fine. I would LOVE IT if Smalltalk or Self became popular for embedded work.

K, r

---

[1] Making Smalltalk On A Raspberry Pi - https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspberry-pi/

Hello everyone!

Does the current cog spur 64-it VM use polling I/O? Or is some other 
mechanism used?

Kindly,
rabbit

Hi Robert,

I cannot directly reply but a datapoint:
On a PiZeroW an idle Squeak 5.3 uses 15+ % CPU. Also if the Window is minimized. That does not look event driven but maybe tightvnc plays a role here too.

Otherwise it runs fine over months at 60 % CPU 24/7 on an A+ since 2014. Outside between -20 and +40 ^C. That's 5.1 currently. I can really recommend using Squeak on a Pi. Unless that constant CPU load cannot be accepted.

Cheers,

Herbert

Hey y'all, there is a discussion thread on this article [1] about Smalltalk on a Pi. I commented pointing to Squeak on a Pi. Another commenter made this statement and I wish to respond.

I used a Squeak variant to test hardware and prototype UI ideas. Ran like a champ on bare bones 68000, PPC & ARM boards.

The only critique I have of using Squeak out of the box is it’s original VM used polling for I/O. I’m sure there are VMs by now that don’t have this problem. And message dispatch is a bit of a pig in terms of power usage. But again, a properly JITted Smalltalk VM should be fine. I would LOVE IT if Smalltalk or Self became popular for embedded work.

K, r

---

[1] Making Smalltalk On A Raspberry Pi - https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspberry-pi/

On 7/13/20 9:45 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

Hello everyone!

Does the current cog spur 64-it VM use polling I/O? Or is some other
mechanism used?

Kindly,
rabbit

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:21, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Robert,

I cannot directly reply but a datapoint:
On a PiZeroW an idle Squeak 5.3 uses 15+ % CPU. Also if the Window is minimized. That does not look event driven but maybe tightvnc plays a role here too.

Otherwise it runs fine over months at 60 % CPU 24/7 on an A+ since 2014. Outside between -20 and +40 ^C. That's 5.1 currently. I can really recommend using Squeak on a Pi. Unless that constant CPU load cannot be accepted.

Cheers,

Herbert

Am 13.07.2020 um 16:02 schrieb Robert Withers via Squeak-dev:

Hey y'all, there is a discussion thread on this article [1] about Smalltalk on a Pi. I commented pointing to Squeak on a Pi. Another commenter made this statement and I wish to respond.

I used a Squeak variant to test hardware and prototype UI ideas. Ran like a champ on bare bones 68000, PPC & ARM boards.

The only critique I have of using Squeak out of the box is it’s original VM used polling for I/O. I’m sure there are VMs by now that don’t have this problem. And message dispatch is a bit of a pig in terms of power usage. But again, a properly JITted Smalltalk VM should be fine. I would LOVE IT if Smalltalk or Self became popular for embedded work.

K, r

---

[1] Making Smalltalk On A Raspberry Pi - https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspberry-pi/

On 7/13/20 9:45 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

Hello everyone!

Does the current cog spur 64-it VM use polling I/O? Or is some other
mechanism used?

Kindly,
rabbit

Hi Robert,

yes that is my guess but there also is this loop that steps all morphs (clock, browsers.. ) so I just don't know and I'm not deep into the innards of Squeak. Just a happy user. And I don't know how VNC handles the display updates.

So let's wait for someone who knows.

Cheers,

Herbert

Hi Herbert,

That 15+% cpu load at idle seems to indicate polling I/O, yes?

Kindly,
Robert

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:21, Herbert König <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Robert,

I cannot directly reply but a datapoint:
On a PiZeroW an idle Squeak 5.3 uses 15+ % CPU. Also if the Window is minimized. That does not look event driven but maybe tightvnc plays a role here too.

Otherwise it runs fine over months at 60 % CPU 24/7 on an A+ since 2014. Outside between -20 and +40 ^C. That's 5.1 currently. I can really recommend using Squeak on a Pi. Unless that constant CPU load cannot be accepted.

Cheers,

Herbert

Am 13.07.2020 um 16:02 schrieb Robert Withers via Squeak-dev:

Hey y'all, there is a discussion thread on this article [1] about Smalltalk on a Pi. I commented pointing to Squeak on a Pi. Another commenter made this statement and I wish to respond.

I used a Squeak variant to test hardware and prototype UI ideas. Ran like a champ on bare bones 68000, PPC & ARM boards.

The only critique I have of using Squeak out of the box is it’s original VM used polling for I/O. I’m sure there are VMs by now that don’t have this problem. And message dispatch is a bit of a pig in terms of power usage. But again, a properly JITted Smalltalk VM should be fine. I would LOVE IT if Smalltalk or Self became popular for embedded work.

K, r

---

[1] Making Smalltalk On A Raspberry Pi - https://hackaday.com/2020/07/12/making-smalltalk-on-a-raspberry-pi/

On 7/13/20 9:45 AM, Robert Withers wrote:

Hello everyone!

Does the current cog spur 64-it VM use polling I/O? Or is some other
mechanism used?

Kindly,
rabbit