I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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Hi, basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output… in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) I will continue to find this kind of thing Cheers, Franck From: [hidden email] Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: [hidden email] Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Hi, basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output… in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban |
Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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For the alt + o + t it's maybe because we changes the shortcut today.
Le jeudi 28 mai 2015, Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> a écrit :
-- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot |
Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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In reply to this post by Franck Warlouzet
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]>:
this changed just recently ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
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I’m lost now.
Which one is the “meta” key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? Esteban
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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Should be ctrl (one in windows almost never uses alt). But Nicolai said there was a bug in there. I didn't have the time to look into that yet. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:17 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> escribió:
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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In reply to this post by CyrilFerlicot
2015-05-28 19:59 GMT+02:00 Cyril Ferlicot <[hidden email]>: For the alt + o + t it's maybe because we changes the shortcut today. This is a really bad change if you used to the old one. The old short cut for "open workspace" was alt+o+w. Now if you type alt+o+w it is recognized as alt+w which closes the active window. (But maybe I need just some time to get used to the new ones)
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers "ctrl" and "command"2015-05-28 20:16 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
It depends, ahah.
To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key. As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts Franck From: [hidden email] Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test I’m lost now. Which one is the “meta” key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? Esteban
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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But exactly those (the windows key, alt F4 and alt tab) are defined by the operating systems and never reach pharo :) El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:25 p. m., Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> escribió:
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In reply to this post by Franck Warlouzet
ok… but we are using what?
alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image): Ctrl + Shift + S or Alt + Shift + S and since we are there: What happens with linux? Esteban
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> escribió:
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate windows.
After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts anyway From: [hidden email] Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> escribió:
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ok, I fixed the issue… should be showing “Ctrl” now, and not “Alt”.
Esteban
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but now there is a problem in glamour, because it is using Alt and not Ctrl… that’s another problem, and has to be solved with another slice (bah, a configuration now) :)
Esteban
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Yes it does.
Franck From: [hidden email] Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:41:13 +0200 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test ok, I fixed the issue… should be showing “Ctrl” now, and not “Alt”. Esteban
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Re: I need a windows user and a linux user to test
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Glamour for now doesn't have the same system of Shortcuts as Pharo. I
already opened an Issue about that. And for the ctrl + o + w and ctrl + w it's not a problem with windows/linux shortcut because we already had cmd + o + w and cmd + w on Mac an nobody complained about it. The use of ctrl is just a way to unify shortcuts because for now it's a little "everyone does what he want". And I don't think someone want to create and maintain 1 system of shortcuts for windows, on system for linux, on system for mac. On 28 May 2015 at 20:48, Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> wrote: > Yes it does. > > Franck > > ________________________________ > From: [hidden email] > Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:41:13 +0200 > > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test > > ok, I fixed the issue… should be showing “Ctrl” now, and not “Alt”. > > Esteban > > On 28 May 2015, at 20:37, Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate > windows. > After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts > anyway > > ________________________________ > From: [hidden email] > Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test > > Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and > unix. Ctrl. > > El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano > <[hidden email]> escribió: > > ok… but we are using what? > alt or ctrl? > my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image): > > Ctrl + Shift + S > > or > > Alt + Shift + S > > and since we are there: What happens with linux? > > Esteban > > > On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> > wrote: > > It depends, ahah. > To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch > between windows it is alt + tab ... > But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for > example, the cmd key does this meta key. > > As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute > rule for shortcuts > > Franck > > ________________________________ > From: [hidden email] > Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test > > I’m lost now. > Which one is the “meta” key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? > > Esteban > > On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > 2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]>: > > I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things : > > - To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or > B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. > > > this changed just recently > 15612 > ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. > > (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list)) > > > > > - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only > alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) > > I will continue to find this kind of thing > > Cheers, > > Franck > ________________________________ > From: [hidden email] > Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 > To: [hidden email] > Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test > > > Hi, > > I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this > issue: > > https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 > > basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output… in a long but clear way > (and compatible with the platform). > > cheers, > Esteban > > -- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot |
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In reply to this post by Guillermo Polito
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:30 AM, Guillermo Polito
<[hidden email]> wrote: > Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and > unix. Ctrl. +1 > El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano > <[hidden email]> escribió: >> >> ok… but we are using what? >> alt or ctrl? >> my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image): >> >> Ctrl + Shift + S >> >> or >> >> Alt + Shift + S >> >> and since we are there: What happens with linux? >> >> Esteban >> >> >> On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> >> It depends, ahah. >> To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch >> between windows it is alt + tab ... >> But there is also a meta key, the windows key. This confuses the issue. From Pharo's perspective, the windows-key does not exist. I really believe the windows-key should *not* be considered a meta-key, and some call it the super-key. >>With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key. On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers > "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command" >> From: [hidden email] >> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 >> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test >> >> I’m lost now. >> Which one is the “meta” key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? >> >> Esteban >> >> On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> >> >> 2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]>: >> >> I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things : >> >> - To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, >> or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. >> >> >> this changed just recently >> 15612 >> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. >> >> (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list)) >> >> >> >> >> - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only >> alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) >> >> I will continue to find this kind of thing >> >> Cheers, >> >> Franck >> ________________________________ >> From: [hidden email] >> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this >> issue: >> >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 >> >> basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output… in a long but clear way >> (and compatible with the platform). >> >> cheers, >> Esteban >> >> > |
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In reply to this post by Nicolai Hess
(whoops accidentally sent that last post)
>> and since we are there: What happens with linux? >> >> Esteban Linux is the same as Windows. >> >> >> On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <[hidden email]> >> wrote: >> To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch >> between windows it is alt + tab ... >> But there is also a meta key, the windows key. This confuses the issue. :) From Pharo's perspective, the windows-key does not exist. I really believe the windows-key should *not* be considered a meta-key, and some call it the super-key. On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Nicolai Hess <[hidden email]> wrote: > Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers > "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command" > > 2015-05-28 20:16 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>: >> >> I’m lost now. >> Which one is the “meta” key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? >> >> Esteban Note that he said *currently* , not that it was correct. Indeed it is wrong per platform conventions. Observe all the PharoShortcuts saying for example... ^ $b command mac | $b ctrl win | $b ctrl unix That is... Linux/Windows meta-key = Ctrl. OSX meta-key = Cmd Alt should remain Alt and be equivalent to Option on osx, but it seems on Windows that somewhere low level the Alt key *becomes* a Cmd key. This needs to be killed. >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test >>> this issue: >>> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 >>> >>> basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output… in a long but clear >>> way (and compatible with the platform). >>> >>> cheers, >>> Esteban Thanks for doing this. It might be a bit bumpy road but really needs to be done. Now my opinion is based on previously being a long term Windows Pharo user, but right now I need to find a Windows machine to assist. cheers -ben |
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well, along with this slice I opened: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15627
who “fixes” the glamour issue. but it needs to be integrated so it will take a couple of days more. hope with this at least the look of menus are normalised. after we need to work on removing old shortcuts and add them through keybindings, then we can have a coherent shortcut set (one step at a time). Esteban
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