I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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I seem to be having a hard time finding any sort of smalltalk tutorial that doesn't assume I'm already a master programmer in some other language.
...That's not to say I haven't read, and executed examples from, a few of them. I've followed along with the laser game development guide by Stephan B Wessels (I can find a link if anyone wants it), I've read most of Squeak By Example and a few others, so I have explored enough for a basic understanding. My problem is that smalltalk is my first programing language, So I need to figure out how to break a problem down to something I can code out (I need to learn to "scratch-code" in a workspace). Does anyone know where I can find such a guide, or even outline one for me to build as I learn? On another note, I have tried to learn the "basics" of programing in other languages (most recently C++), but now that I've been exposed to smalltalk, it all seems cumbersome and scattered. I end up getting too frustrated with the need to reference some other part of the book so often, as well as the edit-compile-debug cycle. |
Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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Check out this thread: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/beginners/2010-October/007313.html
Amir On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Tim Retz <[hidden email]> wrote: > I seem to be having a hard time finding any sort of smalltalk tutorial that > doesn't assume I'm already a master programmer in some other language. > > ...That's not to say I haven't read, and executed examples from, a few of > them. I've followed along with the laser game development guide by Stephan B > Wessels (I can find a link if anyone wants it), I've read most of Squeak By > Example and a few others, so I have explored enough for a basic > understanding. My problem is that smalltalk is my first programing language, > So I need to figure out how to break a problem down to something I can code > out (I need to learn to "scratch-code" in a workspace). > > Does anyone know where I can find such a guide, or even outline one for me > to build as I learn? > > On another note, I have tried to learn the "basics" of programing in other > languages (most recently C++), but now that I've been exposed to smalltalk, > it all seems cumbersome and scattered. I end up getting too frustrated with > the need to reference some other part of the book so often, as well as the > edit-compile-debug cycle. Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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In reply to this post by Tim Retz
On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Tim Retz <[hidden email]> wrote: I seem to be having a hard time finding any sort of smalltalk tutorial that Have you looked at - http://www.pharocasts.com/ , more specifically http://www.pharocasts.com/search/label/getting%20started
Try to describe the problem you want to solve, so we could help.
Laurent Laffont - @lolgzs Pharo Smalltalk Screencasts: http://www.pharocasts.com/ Blog: http://magaloma.blogspot.com/ Developer group: http://cara74.seasidehosting.st
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Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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In reply to this post by Amir Ansari
The book "Joy of Smalltalk" by Ivan Tomek was written to teach
programming in Smalltalk. You can find it at http://plato.acadiau.ca/courses/comp/tomek/jos.htm It is for VisualWorks, so a lot of things will be different, but most of it will be the same. You should give it a try and let us see how well it works. You could get a free version of VisualWorks, but the book was written 10 years ago so VisualWorks has changed since then, too. -Ralph _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
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In reply to this post by Tim Retz
I now realize I need to have some sort of example for anyone to work with, so here's my current plan:
I know that "Diving in" would be the best way to learn, so (With the help of boredom) one day when playing minesweeper I thought to myself: "I wish I had an empty playing-field, where I could click to place mines, and the surrounding cells would number themselves off. That would totally help my strategy, and I could expand it into a working minesweeper game really easily. I bet that'd be a great 'my first smalltalk app'!" Now, I know I would have to make some sort of grid with cells, and make the cells aware of their surroundings. My biggest issue is that I don't have the experience to know where to start. Every guide I've found (with one exception) has more or less just given code to make something work, without much insight as to how they got the idea to do what they did. I can copy and paste methods all day long, but I won't learn anything. The exception I mentioned above was the "Bots Inc." tutorial. It was fantastic, made me think, and I really felt like I was learning. My only problem is that is ended too soon. I wish it would go on to show you how to build your own systems and, well, just keep going. On a side note, I'd like to mention that I've been at this off and on for some time now, and I was hesitant to write a question for someone to respond to directly. Before now a Google search to find if anyone is having similar trouble is all I've had the confidence for, making this a very pleasant experience. (I'm 21, old enough to know I'm still a kid, and be nervous about wasting people's time.) I feel I should also mention my long term goals. I know it'll be a LONG while before I'm successful, but I hope to eventually (I'm thinking in terms of years from now) write my own OS, and everything that runs in it. I sort of hate windows, and want to be able to change anything I want at any given time (I know I'll need to learn more than smalltalk, but I have to start somewhere!), but I don't want to have to deal with how someone else thought things would work best. However, I'm starting to see that this idea is likely hindering my learning experience. (I want to do it all myself, which pushes me away from other peoples (working) code in favor of struggling to solve the problem myself.) I have also, once, managed to run a program I was working on in my head to see what things where doing (And it was quite a trip!), if it's worthy of noting. Wow, This message ended up being a lot longer than I thought it would, I hope I didn't leave anything out! ...And for whatever reason, I was unable to post a reply for a few weeks. It's working now though. |
Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Tim Retz <[hidden email]> wrote: I now realize I need to have some sort of example for anyone to work with, so I'm new to this Small Talk too and I have you by 49 years. If I understand your point of view then you will stay frustrated a very long time. Take a look at the history of Small Talk. Listen to some of Alan Kay on video. It will help you get a real perspective of where Small Talk came from. Way back to Sketch Pad. Why invent the wheel again. Later
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Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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In reply to this post by Tim Retz
On Apr 4, 2011, at 5:49 PM, Tim Retz wrote: > The exception I mentioned above was the "Bots Inc." tutorial. It was > fantastic, made me think, and I really felt like I was learning. My only > problem is that is ended too soon. I wish it would go on to show you how to > build your own systems and, well, just keep going. Hi Tim, I like your attitude about programming. I too like Smalltalk for similar reasons -- you can dive down to the very root of the code and see how things are working, and feel free to break -- er, I mean, replace -- any or all of it. To get a good feel for what's possible in Squeak and how to do it, some more good recreational reading would be the two original Mark Guzdial Squeak books. Keep in mind that their examples mainly apply to 2.3-era images. Also really great to keep up the excitement about "what's possible" IMHO is Smalltalk-80: The Interactive Programming Environment (Goldberg). This defines the feel of "exploratory" programming IMHO. Type some code in a Workspace, Do it, see what happens. When it comes down to actually coding and getting projects done, my favorite books have been: - An Introduction to Seaside (Perscheid et al.) - Smalltalk, Objects and Design (Liu) - Squeak by Example (Ducasse et al.) Also one of the Kent Beck books like Smalltalk: Best Practice Patterns but I can't recall if that was the one. The original 1983 Byte magazine issue all about Smalltalk is also pretty neat. Have fun, Tim _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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I've been looking for this issue of Byte for a long time - are there any scans online? It's certainly a seminal issue!
Amir On Tue, 5 Apr 2011 10:11:34 -0500 Tim Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote: > Also one of the Kent Beck books like Smalltalk: Best Practice Patterns but I can't recall if that was the one. The original 1983 Byte magazine issue all about Smalltalk is also pretty neat. _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Re: I've never written a line of code, but want to be a programmer!
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On Apr 5, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Amir Ansari wrote: > I've been looking for this issue of Byte for a long time - are there any scans online? It's certainly a seminal issue! I've found a few of the articles available individually on the interwebs, if I recall correctly. But I was lucky enough to find the whole issue in a volume here at the library! BYTE (.com) is supposed to resume publishing again soon; I wonder if the new entity will be able to provide access to older articles... - Tim _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
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