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Hilaire Fernandes-4

Re: License rewrite (was Re: Ideas of gift :))

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nicolas cellier a écrit :

> [hidden email] a écrit :
>>> hi
>>>
>>> I saw this recent post (2007-11-21) giving a good view of what's
>>> missing.
>>> Did you see it ? or you're looking for something else ?
>>>
>>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/120613/focus=120645
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> wrong one... sorry
>>
>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/120620
>>
>>
>>
>
> Could someone put the list on the wiki so that we can report progress
> and update information?

I can put this list on the wiki of the French Squeak community, but I am
pretty sure it is not the appropriate place, right?

Hilaire
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Hilaire Fernandes-4

Re: License rewrite

In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg

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Craig Latta a écrit :

>
>>http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/120620
>>
>> Yes, it is helpful. Thanks. I think I was sleeping when it came out.
>
> Are you really missing my point? Does it really make sense to ask
> the same question multiple times in a worldwide forum in a period of
> hours, when some of the participants really are asleep?
>
> Why are you being so rude?

Nothing personal Greg, my sincere apologies if you fell like that.
I am really afraid this relicensing last for ever.
Each time we attempt free software event we have problem because of the
license, we really need to pass the cap.

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Alain Fischer

Re: License rewrite (was Re: Ideas of gift :))

In reply to this post by Nicolas Cellier-3

No need to rewrite all of these:

> AFi: methods by Alain Fischer
> Object shouldBeImplemented
> Float raisedTo:
> ScaledDecimal
> *
> ScaledDecimal =
> ScaledDecimal <
> ScaledDecimal /
> ScaledDecimal -
> ScaledDecimal +

I have signed and returned the license agreement

Alain

On 6 déc. 07, at 21:11, nicolas cellier wrote:

>> Could someone put the list on the wiki so that we can report
>> progress and update information?
>> Nicolas
>
> Sure some of the work is done already.
>
> For example i rewrote recently Float>>raisedTo: at http://
> bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6781.
>

Klaus D. Witzel

Re: License rewrite (was Re: Ideas of gift :))

Damn :)

On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:19:09 +0100, Alain Fischer wrote:

> No need to rewrite all of these:
>
>> AFi: methods by Alain Fischer
>> Object shouldBeImplemented
>> Float raisedTo:
>> ScaledDecimal
>> *
>> ScaledDecimal =
>> ScaledDecimal <
>> ScaledDecimal /
>> ScaledDecimal -
>> ScaledDecimal +
>
>
> I have signed and returned the license agreement
>
> Alain
>
>
> On 6 déc. 07, at 21:11, nicolas cellier wrote:
>
>>> Could someone put the list on the wiki so that we can report progress
>>> and update information?
>>> Nicolas
>>
>> Sure some of the work is done already.
>>
>> For example i rewrote recently Float>>raisedTo: at http://
>> bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6781.
>>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: Ideas of gift :)

In reply to this post by jdelgado

Hi jordi

Wait for volume two :)

Stef

On 6 déc. 07, at 12:59, Jordi Delgado wrote:

> Hi,
>
>> I'm happy to see that our book has been donwloaded 11708 times so
>> far.
>> The french version is around 70% and apparently some people started a
>> translation in spanish. Excellent!
>
> Does anybody know who is in charge of the spanish translation? I'd
> like
> to join.
>
>> So you can do three things:
>> - buy the book :). The quality of the printed version is quite good.
>> - write new chapters (more costly) for the next volume
>> - translate it to new languages.
>
> May I suggest you to consider the translation and incorporation to
> SBE of some
> chapters from the french book "Squeak, programmation" by Xavier
> Briffault?
> (with his permission, of course!). I'd suggest (some version of)
> chapters 7 ("Le
> noyau systeme de Squeak"), 8 ("Notions avancees: application de la
> reflexivite
> en Squeak") and 9 ("Les processus"). Of course these chapters
> should be conveniently
> adapted to the overall philosophy of SBE. I'd volunteer to do it
> myself, but my
> knowledge of the french language barely allows me to read some
> technical books.
> Anyway, I liked Briffault's book a lot and I think that those
> chapters would
> add nicely to SBE. Besides, there is no english translation of the
> above mentioned
> book, so a partial translation would make available some of
> Briffault's work
> to english readers.
>
> Bests
>
> Jordi
>
> -------------------------------
> Jordi Delgado
> Dept. LSI (UPC)
> jdelgado at lsi.upc.edu
> http://www.lsi.upc.edu/~jdelgado
>
>
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: Ideas of gift :)

In reply to this post by Jason Johnson-5

Thanks. But I do not take it personnally :)
I know hilaire well and he is a nice person.

Still I understand that hilaire is a bit pushy.
We had the same discussion among SBE authors since not so much was
coming from the
foundation from an external point of view. Now things will change
thanks to Craig and bert effort
(I was just able to miss regularly the bimonthly meeting :(

Stef

On 6 déc. 07, at 18:41, Jason Johnson wrote:

> I realize you're frustrated but I think this is quite off topic for
> this thread. Stephane and Co. did a great thing for the community in
> writing this book and it's lame to bring them down by ranting about
> something unrelated in their thread.
>
> Good job guys (who wrote and/or helped with the book)!
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 10:05 AM, Hilaire Fernandes <[hidden email]> wrote:
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>>
>> A real GREAT gift for Christmas will be to see Squeak relicensed!
>>
>> Will it be possible at least to get info about the actual situation?
>>
>> I don't see the point to give money to the Squeak foundation if the
>> community does not get any info/update regarding the *actual*
>> situation
>> regarding the relicensing.
>>
>> The relicensing will just help to get more attention on Squeak/
>> Smalltalk
>> from the free software community. But may be some people does not
>> want
>> that or so ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> stephane ducasse a écrit :
>>
>>> Hi guys
>>>
>>> I'm happy to see that our book has been donwloaded 11708 times so
>>> far.
>>> The french version is around 70% and apparently some people
>>> started a
>>> translation in spanish. Excellent!
>>> If you want to help please join, we can also offer svn hostings if
>>> necessary.
>>>
>>> Now we are discussing giving to squeakfoundation a part of the small
>>> amount of money we make for the
>>> printed version (but this is not too much and so far merely
>>> covered the
>>> cost of ISBN and other).
>>>
>>> What is important is that we would really like to make this book a
>>> success to show that we do not need publishers
>>> anymore and that a documentation may exist:
>>>
>>> So you can do three things:
>>> - buy the book :). The quality of the printed version is
>>> quite good.
>>> - write new chapters (more costly) for the next volume
>>> - translate it to new languages.
>>>
>>> Why this is important: because else people will not do it again
>>> and I
>>> would like to have a case to show that this
>>> is worht the energy (It is a dream because this took us for too
>>> much time).
>>>
>>> Stef
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------
>>> Stéphane Ducasse
>>> USTL - LILF - CNRS UMR 8022 - INRIA
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
>>>
>>> "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do
>>> different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today
>>> might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: License rewrite (was Re: Ideas of gift :))

In reply to this post by Hilaire Fernandes-4

would be a good effort.

Stef

> [hidden email] a écrit :
>>> hi
>>>
>>> I saw this recent post (2007-11-21) giving a good view of what's
>>> missing.
>>> Did you see it ? or you're looking for something else ?
>>>
>>> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/
>>> 120613/focus=120645
>>>
>>>
>> wrong one... sorry
>> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.lang.smalltalk.squeak.general/
>> 120620
>
> Yes, it is helpful. Thanks. I think I was sleeping when it came out.
> Then from this list we can prepare 10 or 20 (it depends on how big
> it is) smaller packages to share the rewrite workload with the
> community.
>
> Does it sound doable for the community?
>
> Hilaire
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: License rewrite Process (was license rewrite)

In reply to this post by Herbert König

some of the tests to be rewritten are mine (I rewrote some tests of
my students but I messed up with the initials).
So I could just rewrite them.

Stef

On 6 déc. 07, at 21:25, Herbert König wrote:

> Hello Ron,
>
>
> RT> I guess my question is this: What process should we use to
> rewrite and
> RT> verify new methods? Can SFLC give us any guidance concerning
> what practices
> RT> are acceptable for reverse engineering with regard to copyright?
>
> one person writes tests the other implements the method? Would at
> least have some additional benefits.
>
> But then, what about tests that need to be rewritten?
>
> Cheers
>
> Herbert mailto:[hidden email]
>
>
>

stephane ducasse

Re: Ideas of gift :)

In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg

Craig

I think that we have a good opportunity to check whether 3.9 and 3.10
got code in that is not covered.
Because the list of VPR is about 3.8. So this would be a good
opportunity to have such a list for the other versions.

I think that we should put in place the effort to rewrite the
notcovered methods.

Stef

stephane ducasse

Re: License rewrite

In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg

What I did in the past was to go over the list and try to find emails
of people and send them a request.
It worked a bit I got 5 or 6 positive answers. If you have a bit of
time please give a try.
Even looking for their heirs.

Stef

On 6 déc. 07, at 23:55, Craig Latta wrote:

>
> Hi Jason--
>
> > Has any attempt been made to ask the heirs what they want done with
> > the code?
>
> Not to my knowledge, no. Are you volunteering?
>
>
> -C
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> improvisational musical informaticist
> www.netjam.org
> Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]
>
>
>

Ron Teitelbaum

RE: License rewrite (was Re: Ideas of gift :))

In reply to this post by Alain Fischer

Hi Alain,

That's Great!!

Thanks for your work on Squeak!

Ron Teitelbaum

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak-dev-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Alain Fischer
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:19 AM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: License rewrite (was Re: Ideas of gift :))
>
> No need to rewrite all of these:
>
> > AFi: methods by Alain Fischer
> > Object shouldBeImplemented
> > Float raisedTo:
> > ScaledDecimal
> > *
> > ScaledDecimal =
> > ScaledDecimal <
> > ScaledDecimal /
> > ScaledDecimal -
> > ScaledDecimal +
>
>
> I have signed and returned the license agreement
>
> Alain
>
>
> On 6 déc. 07, at 21:11, nicolas cellier wrote:
>
> >> Could someone put the list on the wiki so that we can report
> >> progress and update information?
> >> Nicolas
> >
> > Sure some of the work is done already.
> >
> > For example i rewrote recently Float>>raisedTo: at http://
> > bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6781.
> >

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Ideas of gift :)

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

On Dec 7, 2007, at 14:50 , stephane ducasse wrote:

> (I was just able to miss regularly the bimonthly meeting :(

Oh, we actually meet twice a month.

- Bert -

timrowledge

Finding not-yet-relicensed method (was: Re: Ideas of gift :))

In reply to this post by stephane ducasse

On 7-Dec-07, at 5:58 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:

> Craig
>
> I think that we have a good opportunity to check whether 3.9 and
> 3.10 got code in that is not covered.

It's really simple to check this for any image. Andrew Black wrote a
little analyser - which I'm sure he won't mind me attaching - that
does the job for you. The list of not-yet-signed author initials can
be edited to bring it up to date - see Author>missingSignitories - and
then you just doIt on -
Author new printMissingAuthors
to get a file written out with all your info.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful random insult:- "Body by Fisher -- brains by Mattel."

MethodAuthorship-apb.1.mcz (7K) Download Attachment

David T. Lewis

Respect for departed contributors (was: License rewrite)

In reply to this post by Jason Johnson-5

Jason,

I am attaching a copy of a mail from the Squeak list in 2001 giving
information on the passing of Jerry Archibald, including then-current
email addresses for two daughters. I think that if you were to play
"Sherlock Holmes" for a while and see if you could get permission for
us to retain Jerry's contributions in the Squeak image, it would be a
real service to the community and an act of respect for one of our
early contributors. I did not know Jerry, but I'm sure that he would
have been pleased to know that we still remember him and value his work.

Dave

On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:45:52AM +0100, Jason Johnson wrote:

> Do we have information on who the heirs would be and how to get in
> touch with them, or does the person who takes this up have to turn
> into Sherlock Holmes for a while? It sounds to me like some people on
> this list knew the folks who are no longer with us.
>
> All I know is, if I ever contribute something major to the community I
> would hate to think that all my work would be thrown away and forgot
> due to some situation that didn't exist when I was alive. If the
> people contributed then this probably meant something to them.
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 11:55 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jason--
> >
> > > Has any attempt been made to ask the heirs what they want done with
> > > the code?
> >
> > Not to my knowledge, no. Are you volunteering?

jla.mail (2K) Download Attachment

ccrraaiigg

re: License rewrite Process

In reply to this post by Ron Teitelbaum

Hi Ron--

> I think the answer from Craig's comments, (please correct me if I'm
> wrong here IANAL) is that the contribution has to represent a
> significant change to be copyrightable.

No, my personal opinion is that any change whatsoever is subject
to copyright. My next conversation with the Software Freedom Law
Center's legal counsel is scheduled for Monday, so I may be convinced
otherwise soon. :)

> We need some advice on how to move forward.

(See above.)

-C

--
Craig Latta
improvisational musical informaticist
www.netjam.org
Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

ccrraaiigg

re: License rewrite

In reply to this post by Hilaire Fernandes-4

Hi Hilaire--

> What about the free software foundation, may be they can provide input
> in a quicker way.

Well, I'll bring up that suggestion again at the next Squeak
leadership meeting (on 2007-12-19), but we weren't keen on it the last
time. The main nice thing about joining the Software Freedom Conservancy
is it will give us ongoing access to legal counsel and a tax-exempt
donation mechanism, without having to administer it ourselves (and with
the ability to start our own completely independent organization later
if we desire). Also, the community has so far reached consensus around
an MIT-style license, and not the GPL or LGPL, so I suspect the FSF
wouldn't be quite so interested in us.

No one is happy with how long this is taking (and it really began
several years ago with the first serious conversations between
Viewpoints and Apple), but the leadership still agrees that we should
continue on this path.

For what it's worth, I have been very encouraged by my recent
exchanges with the Conservancy. I'd like to thank everyone again for
their patience. Realistically, I think the next Squeak leadership
elections (in February 2008) will be the next time to consider another
approach, should one be necessary.

thanks again,

-C

--
Craig Latta
improvisational musical informaticist
www.netjam.org
Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

ccrraaiigg

re: Respect for departed contributors

In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

Hi--

Thanks, David and Göran, for passing along that information!
Jason, it sounds like you'd be a motivated and effective volunteer for
this. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but we have to seize what
volunteer energy we can. :) If you decide to take this on, that would
be great.

thanks again,

-C

--
Craig Latta
improvisational musical informaticist
www.netjam.org
Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

ccrraaiigg

Re: License rewrite

In reply to this post by Hilaire Fernandes-4

Thanks, Hilaire!

-C

--
Craig Latta
improvisational musical informaticist
www.netjam.org
Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

Jason Johnson-5

Re: Respect for departed contributors

In reply to this post by ccrraaiigg

Well, I have very little, if any spare time, but if I can get some
help finding email addresses I'm sure I can find time to send out
emails. :)

On Dec 9, 2007 2:04 AM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi--
>
> Thanks, David and Göran, for passing along that information!
> Jason, it sounds like you'd be a motivated and effective volunteer for
> this. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but we have to seize what
> volunteer energy we can. :) If you decide to take this on, that would
> be great.
>
>
> thanks again,
>
> -C
>
> --
> Craig Latta
> improvisational musical informaticist
> www.netjam.org
> Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]
>
>
>

Jason Johnson-5

Re: Respect for departed contributors (was: License rewrite)

In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

Thanks, I'll see what I can do.

On Dec 8, 2007 11:59 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jason,
>
> I am attaching a copy of a mail from the Squeak list in 2001 giving
> information on the passing of Jerry Archibald, including then-current
> email addresses for two daughters. I think that if you were to play
> "Sherlock Holmes" for a while and see if you could get permission for
> us to retain Jerry's contributions in the Squeak image, it would be a
> real service to the community and an act of respect for one of our
> early contributors. I did not know Jerry, but I'm sure that he would
> have been pleased to know that we still remember him and value his work.
>
> Dave
>
> On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 06:45:52AM +0100, Jason Johnson wrote:
> > Do we have information on who the heirs would be and how to get in
> > touch with them, or does the person who takes this up have to turn
> > into Sherlock Holmes for a while? It sounds to me like some people on
> > this list knew the folks who are no longer with us.
> >
> > All I know is, if I ever contribute something major to the community I
> > would hate to think that all my work would be thrown away and forgot
> > due to some situation that didn't exist when I was alive. If the
> > people contributed then this probably meant something to them.
> >
> > On Dec 6, 2007 11:55 PM, Craig Latta <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Jason--
> > >
> > > > Has any attempt been made to ask the heirs what they want done with
> > > > the code?
> > >
> > > Not to my knowledge, no. Are you volunteering?
>

1234