Is there a Roadmap for Pharo 3.0 and Pharo 4.0

>
> So what is the future of pharo ?
>
> Another request for the website would be a small collection of bullet points
> about what makes Pharo special, in the about section there is a very general
> description of what pharo is. I would like something more concrete. I want
> specific features, specific libraries. Assume that people reading this have
> no idea what smalltalk is and no idea what Squeak is. 10-30 bullet points
> should be a good start. No lengthy descriptions, straight to the point.
>
> What you feel about this ?

The problem is that I think we already did a lot of that vision. We need a new one.

>
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 12:56 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2013, at 9:43 AM, kilon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I really like the idea of roadmap. In an open source project people are free
>>> to work in anything they like , even bring new nice features of their design
>>> as long as they don't disturb the existing code.
>>>
>>> But the same people, including me, or even mere users , wonder where the
>>> software is heading. Even an exploration ship , that sets to explore new
>>> areas has goals. I would like to see in the pharo website a roadmap not just
>>> for 3 but even for pharo 4. I know that Stephane has given a presentation
>>> about pharo 3 roadmap , maybe you could link those slides.
>>
>> the problem with this is that we do not have a clear roadmap for Pharo4 (yet).
>> How it works now is: at the beginning of a year iteration we make a list of what we want, taking into account what emerged latest year (both new possibilities opened and new/old problems that emerged).
>>
>> That gives us what we can more or less call a "next release road map". And is "more or less" because situation can change. For example we wanted a complete revamp of Pharo3 L&F, and we wanted also a complete migration of Morph to be rendered with Athens, and reality showed that is not achievable this year... so it will wait until next one (and that does not  means at all that we stopped work on that area, just that the completion of the task will take more time than expected).
>> So... what's the roadmap for Pharo4? No Idea :)
>> What we already know is that we made a huge move forward in infrastructure for Pharo3 (starting by Opal, but not restrained to that), and now we want to focus in the tools (but without doing *just* that, because there are lots of tasks to do in kernel, modularization, cleanups, etc.)
>>
>> in general, for pharo there is a vision document that shows the long (really long) term goals. Now I do not remember where is it, but should be somewhere in the pharo site (probably not visible enough).
>>
> The problem is that I think we already did a lot of that vision. We need a new one.
>

> I really like the idea of roadmap. In an open source project people are free
> to work in anything they like , even bring new nice features of their design
> as long as they don't disturb the existing code.
>
> But the same people, including me, or even mere users , wonder where the
> software is heading. Even an exploration ship , that sets to explore new
> areas has goals. I would like to see in the pharo website a roadmap not just
> for 3 but even for pharo 4. I know that Stephane has given a presentation
> about pharo 3 roadmap , maybe you could link those slides.
>
> So what is the future of pharo ?

>> the problem with this is that we do not have a clear roadmap for Pharo4 (yet).
>> How it works now is: at the beginning of a year iteration we make a list of what we want, taking into account what emerged latest year (both new possibilities opened and new/old problems that emerged).
>>
>> That gives us what we can more or less call a "next release road map". And is "more or less" because situation can change. For example we wanted a complete revamp of Pharo3 L&F, and we wanted also a complete migration of Morph to be rendered with Athens, and reality showed that is not achievable this year... so it will wait until next one (and that does not  means at all that we stopped work on that area, just that the completion of the task will take more time than expected).
>> So... what's the roadmap for Pharo4? No Idea :)
>> What we already know is that we made a huge move forward in infrastructure for Pharo3 (starting by Opal, but not restrained to that), and now we want to focus in the tools (but without doing *just* that, because there are lots of tasks to do in kernel, modularization, cleanups, etc.)
>>
>> in general, for pharo there is a vision document that shows the long (really long) term goals. Now I do not remember where is it, but should be somewhere in the pharo site (probably not visible enough).
>>
> The problem is that I think we already did a lot of that vision. We need a new one.

> Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
>>
>>>> the problem with this is that we do not have a clear roadmap for Pharo4 (yet).
>>>> How it works now is: at the beginning of a year iteration we make a list of what we want, taking into account what emerged latest year (both new possibilities opened and new/old problems that emerged).
>>>>
>>>> That gives us what we can more or less call a "next release road map". And is "more or less" because situation can change. For example we wanted a complete revamp of Pharo3 L&F, and we wanted also a complete migration of Morph to be rendered with Athens, and reality showed that is not achievable this year... so it will wait until next one (and that does not  means at all that we stopped work on that area, just that the completion of the task will take more time than expected).
>>>> So... what's the roadmap for Pharo4? No Idea :)
>>>> What we already know is that we made a huge move forward in infrastructure for Pharo3 (starting by Opal, but not restrained to that), and now we want to focus in the tools (but without doing *just* that, because there are lots of tasks to do in kernel, modularization, cleanups, etc.)
>>>>
>>>> in general, for pharo there is a vision document that shows the long (really long) term goals. Now I do not remember where is it, but should be somewhere in the pharo site (probably not visible enough).
>>>>
>>>>      
>>> The problem is that I think we already did a lot of that vision. We need a new one.
>>>    
>>
>> I will update it :)
>> And I want a bootstrap and mini core and ….
>>  
>>>    
>>
>>
>>
>>  
> Stef,
>
> A few weeks back I had occasion to review the Pharo Vision document again.  In the process of adding an additional Use-Case, I ended up marking lots of small editorial improvements throughout the document.  My focus was not on eliminating grammar mistakes by non-native-english authors (it was pretty good) - but more on trying to find the 'best' way to phrase something.  Eliminating the sort of things that creep into my own writing until the third or fourth review, along the lines of that saying about the writing process... "The job is not done until there is nothing left to remove"
>
> cheers -ben
> <pharovision-btc-markup-2013-09-11.pdf>

>
> On Oct 16, 2013, at 4:32 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Stef,
>>
>> A few weeks back I had occasion to review the Pharo Vision document again.  In the process of adding an additional Use-Case, I ended up marking lots of small editorial improvements throughout the document.  My focus was not on eliminating grammar mistakes by non-native-english authors (it was pretty good) - but more on trying to find the 'best' way to phrase something.  Eliminating the sort of things that creep into my own writing until the third or fourth review, along the lines of that saying about the writing process... "The job is not done until there is nothing left to remove"
>>
>> cheers -ben
>> <pharovision-btc-markup-2013-09-11.pdf>
>
> very nice! Thanks!
>
> I will make a pass to integrate your suggestions.
>
> Marcus