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Is there a preference for this?

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David T. Lewis

Is there a preference for this?

In my updated trunk image, if I inspect something that already has an open inspector,
that open inspector gets the focus and no new inspector is opened. I'm guessing that
someone set a preference for this and maybe I missed the announcement.

Is there some way I can make this improvement go away? I can't see anything obvious
in the preference browser.

Thanks,
Dave

Karl Ramberg

Re: Is there a preference for this?

Reuse Windows preference is a good guess ;-)

Karl

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:38 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

In my updated trunk image, if I inspect something that already has an open inspector,
that open inspector gets the focus and no new inspector is opened. I'm guessing that
someone set a preference for this and maybe I missed the announcement.

Is there some way I can make this improvement go away? I can't see anything obvious
in the preference browser.

Thanks,
Dave

timrowledge

Re: SPAM [squeak-dev] Is there a preference for this?

In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

On 28-06-2014, at 8:38 AM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In my updated trunk image, if I inspect something that already has an open inspector,
> that open inspector gets the focus and no new inspector is opened. I'm guessing that
> someone set a preference for this and maybe I missed the announcement.
>
> Is there some way I can make this improvement go away? I can't see anything obvious
> in the preference browser.

That sounds like the very annoying ‘reuse windows’ preference.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful Latin Phrases:- Sona si Latine loqueris = Honk if you speak Latin.

David T. Lewis

Re: Is there a preference for this?

In reply to this post by Karl Ramberg

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 05:59:37PM +0200, karl ramberg wrote:

>
> On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 5:38 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > In my updated trunk image, if I inspect something that already has an open
> > inspector,
> > that open inspector gets the focus and no new inspector is opened. I'm
> > guessing that
> > someone set a preference for this and maybe I missed the announcement.
> >
> > Is there some way I can make this improvement go away? I can't see
> > anything obvious
> > in the preference browser.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dave
>
> Reuse Windows preference is a good guess ;-)
>
> Karl
>

Thanks Karl, that was it :-)

Dave

David T. Lewis

Re: Is there a preference for this?

In reply to this post by timrowledge

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 10:22:00AM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:

>
> On 28-06-2014, at 8:38 AM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > In my updated trunk image, if I inspect something that already has an open inspector,
> > that open inspector gets the focus and no new inspector is opened. I'm guessing that
> > someone set a preference for this and maybe I missed the announcement.
> >
> > Is there some way I can make this improvement go away? I can't see anything obvious
> > in the preference browser.
>
> That sounds like the very annoying ?reuse windows? preference.
>

It certainly was annoying for me.

It turns out that the preference lives in category "browsing", as opposed to
say "windows".

I don't know why this got turned on in the trunk stream. It seems like a rather
idiosycratic preference to me.

Dave

Chris Muller-3

Re: Is there a preference for this?

The idea was to address a long-standing issue with Smalltalk devlelopment; unnecessary window proliferation.W

One nice thing about that preference is you can easily tell when two objects refer to the same object. By inspecting the reference from the first place, you get the inspector window, then inspect it from the second place, did it open a new window? (different reference) or re-top the original inspector (same reference)?

The benefit is clear and tangible, and there are mutiple ways to get multiple browsers onto the same object even when the preference is set. Why would you be annoyed by less redundancy?

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 1:06 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 10:22:00AM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:

>
> On 28-06-2014, at 8:38 AM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > In my updated trunk image, if I inspect something that already has an open inspector,
> > that open inspector gets the focus and no new inspector is opened. I'm guessing that
> > someone set a preference for this and maybe I missed the announcement.
> >
> > Is there some way I can make this improvement go away? I can't see anything obvious
> > in the preference browser.
>

> That sounds like the very annoying ?reuse windows? preference.
>

It certainly was annoying for me.

It turns out that the preference lives in category "browsing", as opposed to
say "windows".

I don't know why this got turned on in the trunk stream. It seems like a rather
idiosycratic preference to me.

Dave

Chris Muller-3

Re: Is there a preference for this?

In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

It turns out that the preference lives in category "browsing", as opposed to
say "windows".

-- I guess it could be either but it's also a browser function. If there is already a usable browser on the desktop for whatever you're asking for, implementors, senders, hierarchy browser, package browser, MC browser, etc., it'll bring forth that browser rather than open yet another, using more memry, and that you'll just have to close someday.

Oh, if you search preferences for "Windows" it's right there..

I'm curious whether, when you say, "open..." | Transcript, and you get the same Transcript instead of a new one, does that annoy you too?

David T. Lewis

Re: Is there a preference for this?

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

> >
> > It turns out that the preference lives in category "browsing", as opposed
> > to
> > say "windows".
> >
> >
> -- I guess it could be either but it's also a browser function. If there
> is already a usable browser on the desktop for whatever you're asking for,
> implementors, senders, hierarchy browser, package browser, MC browser,
> etc., it'll bring forth that browser rather than open yet another, using
> more memry, and that you'll just have to close someday.
>
> Oh, if you search preferences for "Windows" it's right there..
>
> I'm curious whether, when you say, "open..." | Transcript, and you get the
> same Transcript instead of a new one, does that annoy you too?

It's probably mainly a matter of habit and training, but no that does not
annoy me.

I am accustomed to thinking of the transcript as a single thing that can
be written to from anywhere, somewhat like a stdout stream. I am also
accustomed to thinking of the transcript window itself as being the thing
that gets written to. So if I tell the system to open that singleton window,
and it is already open, I am not surprised that the system refuses to make
two instances of something that is supposed to only have one.

On the other hand, if I tell the system to inspect something, I expect it
to open an inspector on that thing. When I ask the system to this, and it
decides to do something else instead, I am annoyed.

Dave

Chris Muller-3

Re: Is there a preference for this?

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:33 AM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
> >
> > It turns out that the preference lives in category "browsing", as opposed
> > to
> > say "windows".
> >
> >
> -- I guess it could be either but it's also a browser function. If there
> is already a usable browser on the desktop for whatever you're asking for,
> implementors, senders, hierarchy browser, package browser, MC browser,
> etc., it'll bring forth that browser rather than open yet another, using
> more memry, and that you'll just have to close someday.
>
> Oh, if you search preferences for "Windows" it's right there..
>
> I'm curious whether, when you say, "open..." | Transcript, and you get the
> same Transcript instead of a new one, does that annoy you too?

It's probably mainly a matter of habit and training, but no that does not
annoy me.

I am accustomed to thinking of the transcript as a single thing that can
be written to from anywhere, somewhat like a stdout stream. I am also
accustomed to thinking of the transcript window itself as being the thing
that gets written to. So if I tell the system to open that singleton window,
and it is already open, I am not surprised that the system refuses to make
two instances of something that is supposed to only have one.

On the other hand, if I tell the system to inspect something, I expect it
to open an inspector on that thing.

When I ask the system to this, and it
decides to do something else instead, I am annoyed.

Ah, I think I finally realized the root cause of the annoyance. You had the inspector window already open, but it was not occluded by any other window. So when you invoked 'inspect' in another window, there was not as dramatic a change on the screen, just the focus shift. If you didn't notice that, it may have left you thinking the inspect command "didn't work." By opening a new window every time, the users attention is more effectively directed to the location of the window on the screen.

This makes me wonder if a #flash would help for that scenario..

David T. Lewis

Re: Is there a preference for this?

On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 02:52:51PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 8:33 AM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 12:45:29AM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It turns out that the preference lives in category "browsing", as
> > opposed
> > > > to
> > > > say "windows".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > -- I guess it could be either but it's also a browser function. If there
> > > is already a usable browser on the desktop for whatever you're asking
> > for,
> > > implementors, senders, hierarchy browser, package browser, MC browser,
> > > etc., it'll bring forth that browser rather than open yet another, using
> > > more memry, and that you'll just have to close someday.
> > >
> > > Oh, if you search preferences for "Windows" it's right there..
> > >
> > > I'm curious whether, when you say, "open..." | Transcript, and you get
> > the
> > > same Transcript instead of a new one, does that annoy you too?
> >
> > It's probably mainly a matter of habit and training, but no that does not
> > annoy me.
> >
> > I am accustomed to thinking of the transcript as a single thing that can
> > be written to from anywhere, somewhat like a stdout stream. I am also
> > accustomed to thinking of the transcript window itself as being the thing
> > that gets written to. So if I tell the system to open that singleton
> > window,
> > and it is already open, I am not surprised that the system refuses to make
> > two instances of something that is supposed to only have one.
>
>
> > On the other hand, if I tell the system to inspect something, I expect it
> > to open an inspector on that thing.
>
> When I ask the system to this, and it
> > decides to do something else instead, I am annoyed.
> >
>
> Ah, I think I finally realized the root cause of the annoyance. You had
> the inspector window already open, but it was not occluded by any other
> window. So when you invoked 'inspect' in another window, there was not as
> dramatic a change on the screen, just the focus shift. If you didn't
> notice that, it may have left you thinking the inspect command "didn't
> work." By opening a new window every time, the users attention is more
> effectively directed to the location of the window on the screen.

Yes, that is it exactly! I quite literally thought that nothing had happened.
I did a "self inspect" from an inspector, and I happened to be working in
a format 6521 spur image at the time, so my first reaction was "something is
horribly broken it this image, it does not even know what self means". Then I
found out that exactly the same thing was happening in a 68002 image that I
also happened to have open. Confusion ensued, followed by annoyance ;-)

>
> This makes me wonder if a #flash would help for that scenario..
>

Yes that would probably help. Although I do think that this is a preference
that might best be left disabled by default.

Dave

Chris Muller-3

Re: Is there a preference for this?

> This makes me wonder if a #flash would help for that scenario..
>

Yes that would probably help. Although I do think that this is a preference
that might best be left disabled by default.

How about gaining a month of context using it before making that judgement? I have full context of working under both settings, which is how I'm able to understand the rationale for it. It seems like you could be "reacting" from your trip to the corner-case. If you happen to go there again someday you won't get confused because you know about it now (plus I like the #flash idea, which would make that certain).

OTOH, window proliferation has been a common complaint of Smalltalkers for years. Just recently on the Pharo list, in fact. Squeak can show that it has addressed that complaint elegantly, and so it should.

timrowledge

Re: Is there a preference for this?

On 29-06-2014, at 4:46 PM, Chris Muller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> OTOH, window proliferation has been a common complaint of Smalltalkers for years. Just recently on the Pharo list, in fact. Squeak can show that it has addressed that complaint elegantly, and so it should.
>
It has? I’ve never come across it myself, I have to say. I like having lots of windows, but it’s possible that is a side effect of having grown up where you couldn’t do that.

For users that like having these multi-windows I can’t help wondering if making it look more like the tabs we’re getting used in web browsers might be good. At least that provides clear visual feedback on what is there.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
I came, I saw, I deleted all your files.

Bert Freudenberg

Re: Is there a preference for this?

In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

On 30.06.2014, at 00:12, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 02:52:51PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
>>
>> Ah, I think I finally realized the root cause of the annoyance. You had
>> the inspector window already open, but it was not occluded by any other
>> window. So when you invoked 'inspect' in another window, there was not as
>> dramatic a change on the screen, just the focus shift.
>
> Yes, that is it exactly! I quite literally thought that nothing had happened.
>>
>> This makes me wonder if a #flash would help for that scenario..

+1

- Bert -

smime.p7s (5K) Download Attachment

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: Is there a preference for this?

On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 1:15 AM, Bert Freudenberg <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 30.06.2014, at 00:12, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 02:52:51PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:
>>
>> Ah, I think I finally realized the root cause of the annoyance. You had
>> the inspector window already open, but it was not occluded by any other
>> window. So when you invoked 'inspect' in another window, there was not as
>> dramatic a change on the screen, just the focus shift.
>
> Yes, that is it exactly! I quite literally thought that nothing had happened.
>>
>> This makes me wonder if a #flash would help for that scenario..

+1

- Bert -

--
best,

Eliot

Is there a preference for this?

Is there a preference for this?

Re: Is there a preference for this?

Re: *****SPAM***** [squeak-dev] Is there a preference for this?

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