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epeld

Keyboard work flow?

Hello!

Is it possible to get by using ONLY the keyboard in the standard development components?

Here are some workflows that I frequently use and would like to perform without mouse if possible:

1. Use Spotter to browse a class

2. Define a new method. That is, allow me to immediately focus the source code editor so I can start typing a new method

or

1. Use Spotter to browse the implementation of a method

2. Edit its source code and accept

3. Now recategorize or rename or create new class etc etc. (the problem here is that the source code editor will shadow all the shortcuts I normally have in the browser, e.g CMD-M CMD-M would normally recategorize the method, but now this brings up the implementors list instead.

Thanks!

Stephan Eggermont-3

Re: Keyboard work flow?

On 21/08/16 22:23, epeld wrote:
> Is it possible to get by using ONLY the keyboard in the standard development
> components?

Not really/yet. Nautilus can be controlled by keyboard for a large part
of its functionality, but the flow is not ideal. I've done some
experiments with CodePanel/NewUI in the past year.

Stephan

Peter Uhnak

Re: Keyboard work flow?

I've made a shortcuts overview for Nautilus short while ago

https://www.peteruhnak.com/blog/2016/08/03/nautilus-shortcuts-cheatsheet/

https://gist.github.com/peteruhnak/d9ee54f67d88b20ba85618e189b15669

but as noted there, when you are in the code pane it's a bit tricky.

Peter

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 10:41 PM, Stephan Eggermont <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 21/08/16 22:23, epeld wrote:

Is it possible to get by using ONLY the keyboard in the standard development
components?

Not really/yet. Nautilus can be controlled by keyboard for a large part of its functionality, but the flow is not ideal. I've done some experiments with CodePanel/NewUI in the past year.

Stephan

kilon.alios

Re: Keyboard work flow?

In reply to this post by epeld

The problem is not so much that Pharo has not shortcuts for everything, or that shortcuts are tricky to make or modify. The problem is that Pharo is a very complex environment, more complex than emacs and vim. It's very easy to create messy shortcut setups like emacs and vim.

Saying that yes sure it's possible but I do suspect that most Pharo devs are like me, love shortcuts but using mouse is just simpler. Hence why Pharo is no emacs/vim , thank God :D

But probably it will require for you to customize and create new shortcuts. After all emacs and vim users use their own personal shortcuts tailor made for their needs.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 at 23:26, epeld <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello!

Is it possible to get by using ONLY the keyboard in the standard development
components?

Here are some workflows that I frequently use and would like to perform
without mouse if possible:

1. Use Spotter to browse a class

2. Define a new method. That is, allow me to immediately focus the source
code editor so I can start typing a new method

or

1. Use Spotter to browse the implementation of a method

2. Edit its source code and accept

3. Now recategorize or rename or create new class etc etc. (the problem here
is that the source code editor will shadow all the shortcuts I normally have
in the browser, e.g CMD-M CMD-M would normally recategorize the method, but
now this brings up the implementors list instead.

Thanks!

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Keyboard-work-flow-tp4912091.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

epeld

Re: Keyboard work flow?

Agreed, a mouse is simpler. But a keyboard is faster and (more importantly) ergonomic. I am a bit surprised that you say probably most Pharo devs prefer using the mouse, Dimitris. Being new to Smalltalk, my impression was that the openness of the environment lends itself very well to customization of this sort; context-sensitive shortcuts, custom menus and other utilities tailor made for the specific task at hand. Do people do this or is it preferred to not stray too far from the official releases?

Personally, I'm fine with using whatever shortcuts are already there but I would like to be able to add my own when they are missing.

In my opinion, most of my workflow issues would be elegantly solved if I could sort of 'shift' keyboard focus to different subcomponents WITHIN a single system window. For example, in the Code Browser, if I could maybe use CTRL-1,2,3,4,5 etc to focus the package, class, category, method and code panels respectively. This would allow me to fire up a Code Browser, find a class, edit the source code, etc using nothing but the keyboard.

Tips on how best to implement this are appreciated :)

2016-08-23 13:53 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>:

The problem is not so much that Pharo has not shortcuts for everything, or that shortcuts are tricky to make or modify. The problem is that Pharo is a very complex environment, more complex than emacs and vim. It's very easy to create messy shortcut setups like emacs and vim.

Saying that yes sure it's possible but I do suspect that most Pharo devs are like me, love shortcuts but using mouse is just simpler. Hence why Pharo is no emacs/vim , thank God :D

But probably it will require for you to customize and create new shortcuts. After all emacs and vim users use their own personal shortcuts tailor made for their needs.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 at 23:26, epeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello!

Is it possible to get by using ONLY the keyboard in the standard development
components?

Here are some workflows that I frequently use and would like to perform
without mouse if possible:

1. Use Spotter to browse a class

2. Define a new method. That is, allow me to immediately focus the source
code editor so I can start typing a new method

or

1. Use Spotter to browse the implementation of a method

2. Edit its source code and accept

3. Now recategorize or rename or create new class etc etc. (the problem here
is that the source code editor will shadow all the shortcuts I normally have
in the browser, e.g CMD-M CMD-M would normally recategorize the method, but
now this brings up the implementors list instead.

Thanks!

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Keyboard-work-flow-tp4912091.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

kilon.alios

Re: Keyboard work flow?

That's the spirit indeed , as a Pharo dev you basically design or improve your development tools. I did not imply that we prefer using only the mouse, obviously if that was true we would not have shortcuts. If memory serves correctly Pharo already offers 217 shortcuts which is a good start (according to the keymap browser you can find in World Menu -> System -> Keymap Browser).

Personally when I use GTSpotter I use only shortcuts, when I open the System Browser I use a mix of shortcuts for common actions and mouse for more specific.

But yeah I rely a lot on mouse because I work very slow , shortcuts would not be beneficial in my case in terms of speed. If I was working way faster I would have probably used shortcuts a lot more but I prefer to really digest information so using the mouse never becomes an issue in terms of speed but yeah I also use a lot of shortcuts.

You can find info about modifying and adding new shortcuts here

https://playingwithobjects.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/keymappings-101-for-pharo-2-0/

One thing that Pharo misses is global shortcuts. But even without them you should be able to customize pharo image the easy way.

Jump in and do your thing , then nice thing about images is that each image can have diffirent shortcuts so you can create diffirent setups if you want and do all sort of crazy stuff.

Also you can always submit your extra shortcuts to be included in a future standard pharo image. I dont think you will get any big complain about it. Just open a case in pharo fogbuz as a new feature and also send a message to the mailing list so we can pay more attention to it.

The nice thing about Pharo is that is a very open friendly community so you dont have to fight red tape or large committees like you would in other popular languages to get stuff included or modify pharo in some way. Being small community allows us to be far more agile on these matters.

One of the reasons I love using Pharo.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 at 21:33, Erik Peldan <[hidden email]> wrote:

Agreed, a mouse is simpler. But a keyboard is faster and (more importantly) ergonomic. I am a bit surprised that you say probably most Pharo devs prefer using the mouse, Dimitris. Being new to Smalltalk, my impression was that the openness of the environment lends itself very well to customization of this sort; context-sensitive shortcuts, custom menus and other utilities tailor made for the specific task at hand. Do people do this or is it preferred to not stray too far from the official releases?

Personally, I'm fine with using whatever shortcuts are already there but I would like to be able to add my own when they are missing.
In my opinion, most of my workflow issues would be elegantly solved if I could sort of 'shift' keyboard focus to different subcomponents WITHIN a single system window. For example, in the Code Browser, if I could maybe use CTRL-1,2,3,4,5 etc to focus the package, class, category, method and code panels respectively. This would allow me to fire up a Code Browser, find a class, edit the source code, etc using nothing but the keyboard.
Tips on how best to implement this are appreciated :)

2016-08-23 13:53 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]>:
The problem is not so much that Pharo has not shortcuts for everything, or that shortcuts are tricky to make or modify. The problem is that Pharo is a very complex environment, more complex than emacs and vim. It's very easy to create messy shortcut setups like emacs and vim.

Saying that yes sure it's possible but I do suspect that most Pharo devs are like me, love shortcuts but using mouse is just simpler. Hence why Pharo is no emacs/vim , thank God :D

But probably it will require for you to customize and create new shortcuts. After all emacs and vim users use their own personal shortcuts tailor made for their needs.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2016 at 23:26, epeld <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello!

Is it possible to get by using ONLY the keyboard in the standard development
components?

Here are some workflows that I frequently use and would like to perform
without mouse if possible:

1. Use Spotter to browse a class

2. Define a new method. That is, allow me to immediately focus the source
code editor so I can start typing a new method

or

1. Use Spotter to browse the implementation of a method

2. Edit its source code and accept

3. Now recategorize or rename or create new class etc etc. (the problem here
is that the source code editor will shadow all the shortcuts I normally have
in the browser, e.g CMD-M CMD-M would normally recategorize the method, but
now this brings up the implementors list instead.

Thanks!

--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Keyboard-work-flow-tp4912091.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.