Mac carbon Hydra VM

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Mac carbon Hydra VM

johnmci
 
I've posted a basic Hydra VM to the usual place

http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html

via ftp or the idisk, look in the

experimental/Hydra

Someone will need to point out where to find a Hydra based image.
It will not work on the PowerPC, maybe later this year?

It does not contain any of the usual bundled plugins:

CroquetPlugin.bundle
FloatMathPlugin.bundle
FT2Plugin.bundle
LocalePlugin.bundle
mpeg3Plugin.bundle
PrintJobPlugin.bundle
QuicktimePlugin.bundle
ServicesPlugin.bundle
SpellingPlugin.bundle
SqueakFFIPrims.bundle
TestOSAPlugin.bundle
UnixOSProcessPlugin.bundle

Since none of those have been cross checked for issues with a Hydra  
VM. However thoughts are that they should just work.



--
=
=
=
========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
=
=
=
========================================================================


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Re: Mac carbon Hydra VM

Ken G. Brown
 

Displays properly now (at 32) as opposed to the previous refresh issues in 3.8.19b2.

Except when extending the main Squeak Window to 4608 pixels (2048+1280+1280), the last last 536 pixels or so do not refresh properly, and the background image does not extend over the area that does not refresh. You can still click in the black not-refreshable area to open menus, and drag windows back out but their previous images remain. Menus do not display properly in the black area because of mixed up backgrounds.
The main OS window outline works properly for dragging to resize etc.
This occurs on the other VM's as well so is not specific to Hydra.

Do you want anything particular tried, tests run or whatever?

Ken G. Brown


At 7:30 AM -0700 5/13/08, John M McIntosh apparently wrote:

>I've posted a basic Hydra VM to the usual place
>
>http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html
>
>via ftp or the idisk, look in the
>
>experimental/Hydra
>
>Someone will need to point out where to find a Hydra based image.
>It will not work on the PowerPC, maybe later this year?
>
>It does not contain any of the usual bundled plugins:
>
>CroquetPlugin.bundle
>FloatMathPlugin.bundle
>FT2Plugin.bundle
>LocalePlugin.bundle
>mpeg3Plugin.bundle
>PrintJobPlugin.bundle
>QuicktimePlugin.bundle
>ServicesPlugin.bundle
>SpellingPlugin.bundle
>SqueakFFIPrims.bundle
>TestOSAPlugin.bundle
>UnixOSProcessPlugin.bundle
>
>Since none of those have been cross checked for issues with a Hydra VM. However thoughts are that they should just work.
>
>
>
>--
>===========================================================================
>John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
>Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>===========================================================================

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Re: Mac carbon Hydra VM

Ken G. Brown
In reply to this post by johnmci
 

There seem to be network connectivity issues, Universe cannot connect to update list from Network.

An attempt to open SqueakMap Package Loader when it tries to update its list since it is more than 10 days old, results in a VM crash.

Don't see a CrashReporter log for it either, unless perhaps I am not looking for the right thing.

Ken G. Brown

At 7:30 AM -0700 5/13/08, John M McIntosh apparently wrote:

>I've posted a basic Hydra VM to the usual place
>
>http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html
>
>via ftp or the idisk, look in the
>
>experimental/Hydra
>
>Someone will need to point out where to find a Hydra based image.
>It will not work on the PowerPC, maybe later this year?
>
>It does not contain any of the usual bundled plugins:
>
>CroquetPlugin.bundle
>FloatMathPlugin.bundle
>FT2Plugin.bundle
>LocalePlugin.bundle
>mpeg3Plugin.bundle
>PrintJobPlugin.bundle
>QuicktimePlugin.bundle
>ServicesPlugin.bundle
>SpellingPlugin.bundle
>SqueakFFIPrims.bundle
>TestOSAPlugin.bundle
>UnixOSProcessPlugin.bundle
>
>Since none of those have been cross checked for issues with a Hydra VM. However thoughts are that they should just work.
>
>
>
>--
>===========================================================================
>John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
>Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>===========================================================================

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Re: Mac carbon Hydra VM

johnmci
 
It's possible that the network primitives do not work, there was  
problem getting the socket plugin to compile in the first place.  
Perhaps the code changes
to fix it resulted in a broken plugin.  Maybe Igor can confirm if the  
network works on the WIndows platform.

On May 14, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Ken G. Brown wrote:

>
> There seem to be network connectivity issues, Universe cannot  
> connect to update list from Network.
>
> An attempt to open SqueakMap Package Loader when it tries to update  
> its list since it is more than 10 days old, results in a VM crash.
>
> Don't see a CrashReporter log for it either, unless perhaps I am not  
> looking for the right thing.
>
> Ken G. Brown
>
> At 7:30 AM -0700 5/13/08, John M McIntosh apparently wrote:
>> I've posted a basic Hydra VM to the usual place
>>
>> http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html
>>
>> via ftp or the idisk, look in the
>>
>> experimental/Hydra
>>
>> Someone will need to point out where to find a Hydra based image.
>> It will not work on the PowerPC, maybe later this year?
>>
>> It does not contain any of the usual bundled plugins:
>>
>> CroquetPlugin.bundle
>> FloatMathPlugin.bundle
>> FT2Plugin.bundle
>> LocalePlugin.bundle
>> mpeg3Plugin.bundle
>> PrintJobPlugin.bundle
>> QuicktimePlugin.bundle
>> ServicesPlugin.bundle
>> SpellingPlugin.bundle
>> SqueakFFIPrims.bundle
>> TestOSAPlugin.bundle
>> UnixOSProcessPlugin.bundle
>>
>> Since none of those have been cross checked for issues with a Hydra  
>> VM. However thoughts are that they should just work.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>

--
=
=
=
========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
=
=
=
========================================================================


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Re: Mac carbon Hydra VM

johnmci
In reply to this post by Ken G. Brown
 
Er, I recall some bug/feature of the squeak bitblt/render that won't  
let you have a window > 4096 or pixels?   Maybe someone can refresh  
our collective memory?

On May 14, 2008, at 8:56 AM, Ken G. Brown wrote:

>
> Displays properly now (at 32) as opposed to the previous refresh  
> issues in 3.8.19b2.
>
> Except when extending the main Squeak Window to 4608 pixels  
> (2048+1280+1280), the last last 536 pixels or so do not refresh  
> properly, and the background image does not extend over the area  
> that does not refresh. You can still click in the black not-
> refreshable area to open menus, and drag windows back out but their  
> previous images remain. Menus do not display properly in the black  
> area because of mixed up backgrounds.
> The main OS window outline works properly for dragging to resize etc.
> This occurs on the other VM's as well so is not specific to Hydra.
>
> Do you want anything particular tried, tests run or whatever?
>
> Ken G. Brown
>
>
> At 7:30 AM -0700 5/13/08, John M McIntosh apparently wrote:
>> I've posted a basic Hydra VM to the usual place
>>
>> http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html
>>
>> via ftp or the idisk, look in the
>>
>> experimental/Hydra
>>
>> Someone will need to point out where to find a Hydra based image.
>> It will not work on the PowerPC, maybe later this year?
>>
>> It does not contain any of the usual bundled plugins:
>>
>> CroquetPlugin.bundle
>> FloatMathPlugin.bundle
>> FT2Plugin.bundle
>> LocalePlugin.bundle
>> mpeg3Plugin.bundle
>> PrintJobPlugin.bundle
>> QuicktimePlugin.bundle
>> ServicesPlugin.bundle
>> SpellingPlugin.bundle
>> SqueakFFIPrims.bundle
>> TestOSAPlugin.bundle
>> UnixOSProcessPlugin.bundle
>>
>> Since none of those have been cross checked for issues with a Hydra  
>> VM. However thoughts are that they should just work.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>> John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
>> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>

--
=
=
=
========================================================================
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
=
=
=
========================================================================


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Re: Mac carbon Hydra VM

Ken G. Brown
In reply to this post by Ken G. Brown
 
Aha! Crash log was actually there under the name Squeak VM Opt not Squeak Hydra VM 3.8.19b3.app as I had expected. Fooled me.

Here it is...

Ken G. Brown
--------------------
Process:         Squeak VM Opt [21204]
Path:            /mySqueakStuff/Sqkb/Sqkb3.10/sq3.10-7159dev08.05.1/Squeak Hydra VM 3.8.19b3.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak VM Opt
Identifier:      org.squeak.Squeak
Version:         Squeak VM 3.8.19b3 (3.8.19b3)
Code Type:       X86 (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [157]

Date/Time:       2008-05-14 13:10:18.990 -0600
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.5.2 (9C7010)
Report Version:  6

Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000008
Crashed Thread:  Unknown

Thread 0:
0   libSystem.B.dylib             0x931f5a46 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             0x93227daf _pthread_cond_wait + 1244
2   libSystem.B.dylib             0x93229633 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 47
3   ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x9007492a TSWaitOnConditionTimedRelative + 246
4   ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x9007470a TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 422
5   ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x900a54a8 TimerThread + 74
6   libSystem.B.dylib             0x93226c55 _pthread_start + 321
7   libSystem.B.dylib             0x93226b12 thread_start + 34

Unknown thread crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
  eax: 0x00000095  ebx: 0x0000004c  ecx: 0x31524c90  edx: 0x00000000
  edi: 0x337634d0  esi: 0x31000004  ebp: 0x0000000c  esp: 0xbfffce80
   ss: 0x0000001f  efl: 0x00010206  eip: 0x000b7ba4   cs: 0x00000017
   ds: 0x0000001f   es: 0x0000001f   fs: 0x00000000   gs: 0x00000037
  cr2: 0x00000008

Binary Images:
    0x1000 -   0x112fe3 +org.squeak.Squeak Squeak VM 3.8.19b3 (3.8.19b3) <063ce48fc366062a3b12b13765bf8935> /mySqueakStuff/Sqkb/Sqkb3.10/sq3.10-7159dev08.05.1/Squeak Hydra VM 3.8.19b3.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak VM Opt
0x555ad000 - 0x556b7fef  com.apple.RawCamera.bundle 2.0.4 (2.0.4) /System/Library/CoreServices/RawCamera.bundle/Contents/MacOS/RawCamera
0x8fe00000 - 0x8fe2da53  dyld 96.2 (???) <7af47d3b00b2268947563c7fa8c59a07> /usr/lib/dyld
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0x9004b000 - 0x90324ff3  com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 785.8 (785.8) <827c228e7d717b397cdb4941eba69553> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore
0x90429000 - 0x90429ffd  com.apple.Accelerate 1.4.2 (Accelerate 1.4.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Accelerate
0x9042a000 - 0x90459fe3  com.apple.AE 402.2 (402.2) <e01596187e91af5d48653920017b8c8e> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE
0x9045a000 - 0x90c57fef  com.apple.AppKit 6.5.2 (949.26) <bc4593edd8a224409fb6953a354505a0> /System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit
0x90f6d000 - 0x91091fe3  com.apple.audio.toolbox.AudioToolbox 1.5.1 (1.5.1) /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioToolbox.framework/Versions/A/AudioToolbox
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0x913cd000 - 0x913d4fe9  libgcc_s.1.dylib ??? (???) <f53c808e87d1184c0f9df63aef53ce0b> /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib
0x91554000 - 0x915aeff7  com.apple.CoreText 2.0.1 (???) <07494945ad1e3f5395599f42748457cc> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText
0x9166e000 - 0x91679fe7  libCSync.A.dylib ??? (???) <df82fc093e498a9eb5490761cb292218> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCSync.A.dylib
0x9167a000 - 0x916d6ff7  com.apple.htmlrendering 68 (1.1.3) <fe87a9dede38db00e6c8949942c6bd4f> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HTMLRendering.framework/Versions/A/HTMLRendering
0x91722000 - 0x91722ffd  com.apple.vecLib 3.4.2 (vecLib 3.4.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib
0x91723000 - 0x91dbcfff  com.apple.CoreGraphics 1.351.21 (???) <6c93fd21149f389129fe47fa6ef71880> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics
0x91dc0000 - 0x920e0fe2  com.apple.QuickTime 7.4.5 (67) <520cbf4ae05622466ad1b89f1ba3a4e1> /System/Library/Frameworks/QuickTime.framework/Versions/A/QuickTime
0x920e1000 - 0x92160ff5  com.apple.SearchKit 1.2.0 (1.2.0) <277b460da86bc222785159fe77e2e2ed> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit
0x92161000 - 0x9216afff  com.apple.speech.recognition.framework 3.7.24 (3.7.24) <d3180f9edbd9a5e6f283d6156aa3c602> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition
0x92179000 - 0x921b3fff  com.apple.coreui 1.1 (61) /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI
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0x92247000 - 0x922befe3  com.apple.CFNetwork 221.5 (221.5) <5474cdd7d2a8b2e8059de249c702df9e> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork
0x922bf000 - 0x92339ff8  com.apple.print.framework.PrintCore 5.5.2 (245.1) <3c9de512e95fbd838694ee5008d56a28> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore
0x923bc000 - 0x923c0fff  libmathCommon.A.dylib ??? (???) /usr/lib/system/libmathCommon.A.dylib
0x923c1000 - 0x923dcffb  libPng.dylib ??? (???) <b6abcac36ec7654ff3e1cfa786b0117b> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
0x92410000 - 0x92428fff  com.apple.openscripting 1.2.6 (???) <b8e553df643f2aec68fa968b3b459b2b> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting
0x92429000 - 0x9242bfff  com.apple.securityhi 3.0 (30817) <2b2854123fed609d1820d2779e2e0963> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI
0x9242c000 - 0x9244cff2  libGL.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib
0x9244d000 - 0x92450fff  com.apple.help 1.1 (36) <b507b08e484cb89033e9cf23062d77de> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help
0x92451000 - 0x927e7ff7  com.apple.QuartzCore 1.5.1 (1.5.1) <665c80f6e28555b303020c8007c36b8b> /System/Library/Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework/Versions/A/QuartzCore
0x927fc000 - 0x9280cfff  com.apple.speech.synthesis.framework 3.6.59 (3.6.59) <4ffef145fad3d4d787e0c33eab26b336> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis
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0x92994000 - 0x9299afff  com.apple.print.framework.Print 218.0.2 (220.1) <8bf7ef71216376d12fcd5ec17e43742c> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print
0x92a0e000 - 0x92a67ff7  libGLU.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib
0x92bc9000 - 0x92bcdfff  libGIF.dylib ??? (???) <d4234e6f5e5f530bdafb969157f1f17b> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libGIF.dylib
0x92bce000 - 0x92bcefff  com.apple.Carbon 136 (136) <98a5e3bc0c4fa44bbb09713bb88707fe> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Carbon
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0x9390b000 - 0x93913fff  com.apple.DiskArbitration 2.2.1 (2.2.1) <75b0c8d8940a8a27816961dddcac8e0f> /System/Library/Frameworks/DiskArbitration.framework/Versions/A/DiskArbitration
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0x95225000 - 0x95226ffc  libffi.dylib ??? (???) <a3b573eb950ca583290f7b2b4c486d09> /usr/lib/libffi.dylib
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0x95270000 - 0x952affef  libTIFF.dylib ??? (???) <6d0f80e9d4d81f3f64c876aca005bd53> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libTIFF.dylib
0x952b0000 - 0x952f1fe7  libRIP.A.dylib ??? (???) <9d42e83d860433f9126c4871d1fe0ce8> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libRIP.A.dylib
0x952f2000 - 0x9531afff  libcups.2.dylib ??? (???) <2f0a710a9128882efb2ed92ad139b58c> /usr/lib/libcups.2.dylib
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0x95564000 - 0x9558ffe7  libauto.dylib ??? (???) <42d8422dc23a18071869fdf7b5d8fab5> /usr/lib/libauto.dylib
0x95590000 - 0x956d5ff7  com.apple.ImageIO.framework 2.0.1 (2.0.1) <68ba11e689a9ca30f8310935cd1e02d6> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO
0x956d6000 - 0x95786fff  edu.mit.Kerberos 6.0.12 (6.0.12) <3dd13466876a8fe4549cfc1354233ec3> /System/Library/Frameworks/Kerberos.framework/Versions/A/Kerberos
0x95787000 - 0x9582efeb  com.apple.QD 3.11.52 (???) <c72bd7bd2ce12694c3640a731d1ad878> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD
0x9584e000 - 0x95855ff7  libCGATS.A.dylib ??? (???) <9b29a5500efe01cc3adea67bbc42568e> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCGATS.A.dylib
0x9585b000 - 0x95915fe3  com.apple.CoreServices.OSServices 224.4 (224.4) <ff5007ab220908ac54b6c661e447d593> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices
0x95b22000 - 0x95b2cfeb  com.apple.audio.SoundManager 3.9.2 (3.9.2) <0f2ba6e891d3761212cf5a5e6134d683> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonSound.framework/Versions/A/CarbonSound
0x95b2d000 - 0x95b4cffa  libJPEG.dylib ??? (???) <0cfb80109d624beb9ceb3c43b6c5ec10> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libJPEG.dylib
0x95b4d000 - 0x95b4fff5  libRadiance.dylib ??? (???) <20eadb285da83df96c795c2c5fa20590> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libRadiance.dylib
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At 6:50 PM -0700 5/14/08, John M McIntosh apparently wrote:

>Try running it from xCode, maybe there is an error handler that grabs the original error.
>
>On May 14, 2008, at 12:14 PM, Ken G. Brown wrote:
>
>>
>>There seem to be network connectivity issues, Universe cannot connect to update list from Network.
>>
>>An attempt to open SqueakMap Package Loader when it tries to update its list since it is more than 10 days old, results in a VM crash.
>>
>>Don't see a CrashReporter log for it either, unless perhaps I am not looking for the right thing.
>>
>>Ken G. Brown
>>
>>At 7:30 AM -0700 5/13/08, John M McIntosh apparently wrote:
>>>I've posted a basic Hydra VM to the usual place
>>>
>>>http://smalltalkconsulting.com/squeak.html
>>>
>>>via ftp or the idisk, look in the
>>>
>>>experimental/Hydra
>>>
>>>Someone will need to point out where to find a Hydra based image.
>>>It will not work on the PowerPC, maybe later this year?
>>>
>>>It does not contain any of the usual bundled plugins:
>>>
>>>CroquetPlugin.bundle
>>>FloatMathPlugin.bundle
>>>FT2Plugin.bundle
>>>LocalePlugin.bundle
>>>mpeg3Plugin.bundle
>>>PrintJobPlugin.bundle
>>>QuicktimePlugin.bundle
>>>ServicesPlugin.bundle
>>>SpellingPlugin.bundle
>>>SqueakFFIPrims.bundle
>>>TestOSAPlugin.bundle
>>>UnixOSProcessPlugin.bundle
>>>
>>>Since none of those have been cross checked for issues with a Hydra VM. However thoughts are that they should just work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>===========================================================================
>>>John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
>>>Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>>>===========================================================================
>>
>
>--
>===========================================================================
>John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
>Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
>===========================================================================