Mit's Scratch has a final version available for download.

Mit's scratch has a final version available for
download.

http://scratch.mit.edu/

It seems to have come out January 8th.

I know there are a few here who have been interested
in what they have done.

Scratch was inspired by squeaks etoys.

Now that it is final and not beta the registration
page is optional.

They also seem to be planing a sharing website to be
up in February.

Yours in service, --Jerome Peace


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for earth-friendly autos?
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center/

And they say: "Note: We are working on a Linux version, and hope to have  
it ready by the end of 2007." :)

/Klaus

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 08:36:42 +0100, Jerome Peace wrote:

Just a personal comment on what I recently read on
this list...  We should never forget that, like it or
not, we still live in a world where ideas and opinions
sometimes clash and are often what's necessary to
bring the discussion to the next level.  Let's not
forget that if Squeak became the wonderful development
environment it is right now, we owe it to guys like
Markus, Stéphane Ducasse, John McIntosh and a bunch of
others.

So I really think seeing guys like Stéphane and Markus
drifting away from the mailing list is really not a
"plus" for Squeak.  It's a great loss in fact.

I'm not saying we should always blindly accepts their
ideas and opinions but we should all at least show a
little bit more respect in our replies on this mailing
list.

I, for one, often complain about Squeak's UI (Morphic)
but I always take great care into making it clear that
I'm not judging the work of others but rather I'm just
expressing what bugs me with the environment.  And as
someone once told me, if it bugs you that much, Squeak
gives you the luxury to enhance/fix/replace it!

Let's just not forget that the purpose of a mailing
list is to exchange, communicate and stir new ideas,
not stir sh*t...

Now gentlemen, can we all work together and make 3.10
a kick a** development environment that will make ruby
and others look extremely pale and poor compared to
Squeak?

:)

My 2 Canadian cents...

P.S.  Markus and Stéphane, we definitely need guys
like you here...

-----------------
Benoit St-Jean
Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean
Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com
A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero.
(Albert Einstein)

Yeah, that's what stopped me from downloading it. So much for
Smalltalk and portability. Way better than say Java.

Philippe

2007/1/16, Klaus D. Witzel <[hidden email]>:

Philippe Marschall wrote:
> Yeah, that's what stopped me from downloading it. So much for
> Smalltalk and portability. Way better than say Java.

Don't you mean "so much for C and portability"? After all, had the
relevant code (media codecs) been written in Smalltalk then Scratch
would have works on all Squeak supported platforms right from the start.

-- Jecel

I'm pretty sure if you find a 2.8 VM the basic stuff would pretty  
much work. I just tested with a recent VM and get walkbacks because  
we switched to named primitives a long while ago. Commenting out the  
primitive failures worked fine (it was just trying to stop sound  
which was not playing anyway). After this, I could work with it just  
fine.

Regarding "Smalltalk and portability" ... It takes a *lot* of low  
level effort to provide the illusion of a perfect world so that on a  
high level you can ignore platform issues. This has not been done on  
Linux yet as it seems, so that's why they estimate it might take a  
while to get done. All of this convenience does not come for free.  
Actually, if it *was* Smalltalk rather than C and OS-dependent  
libraries down there, we would be in even better shape.

- Bert -

On Jan 16, 2007, at 17:53 , Philippe Marschall wrote:

It is surprising that they didn't take advantage of the actual
portability of Squeak (which of course does run on pretty much
everything). Maybe there is some other imported code from some other
regime that is the problem?

Cheers,

Alan

-----------

At 08:53 AM 1/16/2007, Philippe Marschall wrote:

In case that wasn't clear: I ran Scratch *on Linux*.

- Bert -

On Jan 16, 2007, at 18:19 , Bert Freudenberg wrote:

> Yeah, that's what stopped me from downloading it. So much for
> Smalltalk and portability. Way better than say Java.

I think, there is absolutely no need to complain: Download the Mac
version and the included image-file works nicely on different VMs. I
tested it, by opening and clicking a quickly around, with the
following stock VMs:

- Mac VM 3.8.14beta7U on OS X 10.4
- Mac VM 3.8.12beta4U on OS X 10.4
- Unix VM 3.9-9 on OS X 10.4
- Unix VM 3.7b-5 on Gentoo Linux 2.6.17
- Unix VM 3.8a-1 on Gentoo Linux 2.6.17
- Unix VM 3.9-7 on Gentoo Linux 2.6.17

Hope it works on your machine too!

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

The VM version in the Wintel download is

  Squeak 3.4.3 / Tea 1.9 VM (release) from Apr  8 2003 Compiler: gcc 2.95.2  
19991024 (release)

and the image also works (quick test for sound, etc) on the stock 3.7-1  
wintel VM.

/Klaus

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 18:56:42 +0100, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

2007/1/16, Lukas Renggli <[hidden email]>:
> > Yeah, that's what stopped me from downloading it. So much for
> > Smalltalk and portability. Way better than say Java.
>
> I think, there is absolutely no need to complain: Download the Mac
> version and the included image-file works nicely on different VMs. I
> tested it, by opening and clicking a quickly around, with the
> following stock VMs:

As a starter: how do I extract the image?

Philippe

> - Mac VM 3.8.14beta7U on OS X 10.4
> - Mac VM 3.8.12beta4U on OS X 10.4
> - Unix VM 3.9-9 on OS X 10.4
> - Unix VM 3.7b-5 on Gentoo Linux 2.6.17
> - Unix VM 3.8a-1 on Gentoo Linux 2.6.17
> - Unix VM 3.9-7 on Gentoo Linux 2.6.17
>
> Hope it works on your machine too!

> As a starter: how do I extract the image?

Good point, extracting the DMG on Unix is probably difficult.

Cheers,
Lukas

--
Lukas Renggli
http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

In Squeak there is a function in the (default) FileList tool which does  
"extract all to..." from a .zip file for you. Hope this function is not  
platform-specific.

/Klaus

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:26:22 +0100, Philippe Marschall wrote:

Now you can

  wget ftp://squeak.cobss.ch/pub/Scratch.zip

/Klaus

P.S. license included.

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:35:50 +0100, Klaus D. Witzel wrote:

Simply, thanks.
Sometimes we dreamed too much how cool squeak could be and we got  
frustrated.
This is why marcus stopped to read squeak-dev and I stopped to post.
We never really wanted to break other code but sometimes you have to  
take decisions.

The best people can do is to participate at their own level (for  
example we understimate the impact
of tests on the quality) and create cool exciting projects and have fun.

Our goal was and still is to build a system that will enable other  
people creating new cool projects.
We like the idea that we can learn from the system and always had in  
mind the quote of dan saying that
the system should be so simple that one person can understand it.  
This is why we tried to harvest all
the work that you guys spent improving Squeak.

I hope that the 3.10 team will build on what we did and I already  
gave a lot of information especially
the problems we faced and how we tried to solve them. I would like so  
much to have more time
to really be able to help for MC2.

Stef


On 16 janv. 07, at 14:29, Benoit St-Jean wrote:

Klaus D. Witzel wrote:
> and the image also works (quick test for sound, etc) on the stock 3.7-1  
> wintel VM.

It mostly works. But my sister had been to a Scratch workshop and wanted
to show me what she had done, so we just copied everything over from her
Windows laptop to an eMac and I ran Scratch (beta) there with a stock
VM. All the example projects worked just fine but the stuff she had
created had some wierd problems. Looking at the Windows VM directories I
noticed a couple of plug-ins which were unfamiliar to me (I don't
remember their names right now) and which were missing on the Mac. Her
projects worked ok on her laptop.

-- Jecel

On Jan 16, 2007, at 22:25 , Jecel Assumpcao Jr wrote:

In the Mac version I only see one plugin that's non-standard, which  
is "ScratchPlugin". Looking at class ScratchPlugin it appears to  
contain image processing filters, amongst other stuff.

- Bert -

Ya, before Christmas they were using a fairly old Mac VM and I helped  
them upgrade to the current Mac VM since they needed MacIntel support.
They managed to find a problem with sound input in exchange for that  
effort.

The VM that I built for them actually has less functionality. It  
dropped:

AsyncFilePlugin
B3DAcceleratorPlugin
Squeak3D
B2Dplugin
Exupery
GeniePlugin
InternetConfigPlugin
JoystickTablePlugin
RePlugin
SecurityPlugin
SurfacePlugin
UUIDPlugin

The VM is then a 3.8.14beta8U  (8 rev for the sound input fix, with  
the above functionality removed).
Technically running on a standard 3.8.14beta7U os-x carbon VM might  
crash at some point in sound recording in os-x 10.3.
Likely I should push out a 3.8.14beta8U VM...


I'll note if you dig around in the image you'll find that John  
Maloney refactored the EventSensor/InputSensor logic completely
and I think removed a lot of stuff that the event sensor and morphic  
does before morphic gets it's hands on the event to process.


On Jan 16, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Lukas Renggli wrote:

--
========================================================================
===
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
========================================================================
===

Benoit St-Jean wrote:
Well, said. I enjoy and learn a lot from Markus and Stéphane's posts.


--
brad fuller
www.bradfuller.com

Ah, well the only plugin I supplied was the mpeg3Plugin.bundle, let  
me see... download... wait wait wait...

Ah, well ScratchPlugin, first of all it's only powerpc so I wonder if  
it works on MacIntel,
mmm likely I'll get email from the MIT folks over this in a few days  
I'd guess...

lipo -detailed_info ScratchPlugin
input file ScratchPlugin is not a fat file
Non-fat file: ScratchPlugin is architecture: ppc


Isn't this all released under the MIT license anyway?  Ya, license  
below, someone could ask for the ScratchPlugin code then, it's  
possible it could
all be slang anyway, someone should ask?

Scratch

Copyright (c) 2007 Massachusetts Institute of Technology

Scratch was developed by Lifelong Kindergarten group at the MIT Media  
Lab. See scratch.mit.edu.Permission is hereby granted, free of  
charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and  
associated documentation and media files (the "Software"), to deal in  
the Software without restriction, including without limitation the  
rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense,  
and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the  
Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be  
included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND,  
EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF  
MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND  
NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS  
BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN  
ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN  
CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE  
SOFTWARE.



On Jan 16, 2007, at 12:52 PM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

>
> In the Mac version I only see one plugin that's non-standard, which  
> is "ScratchPlugin". Looking at class ScratchPlugin it appears to  
> contain image processing filters, amongst other stuff.
>
> - Bert -
>
>
>

--
========================================================================
===
John M. McIntosh <[hidden email]>
Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd.  http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com
========================================================================
===