New Topic To Beat Into the Ground

All the finds are useful.  Though I've never have used the Reference Path... searches... yet. 


Rick Flower wrote:

Boris Popov wrote:

[ ... ]

4. All items in the Find menu except Package/Class/Method

This one gets me.. I'll have to admit using quite a few items in the "find" menu when looking for some method using a selector from another
class or perhaps an implementor.. However -- I never seem to know which
item to use from the menu -- sometimes I KNOW some selector is being used or something along those lines and can't get VW to find it for me and I end up trying all of the "find" options!  I just wish there was a single "find" menu item that would return all instances of
the item being searched for whether it was in comments, a method definition, or method used, etc.. That would be my wish!

I never use it either, but I suspect part of the reason for Explain
might be that it's a single shortcut Ctrl+E and a mouse click, whereas
Implementors is Ctrl+F11 and Browse Class is Ctrl+F12, so not only are
they different, but they are also quite hard to reach with one hand.

-Boris

--
+1.604.689.0322
DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4

[hidden email]

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is
private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender and delete the entire message including any
attachments.

Thank you.

I use it because it's a) fewer mouse clicks and b) requires less mouse motion (i.e. I don't have to go to the Launcher, choose to view a class or method, and then fill in the resulting window).

Chris

Michael Lucas-Smith wrote:

Are you using it because the correct menu option isn't available? I've
seen people use Explain solely to browse to a class because "Browse to
Class" wasn't in their popup menu (or have a shortcut).

Cheers,
Michael

  

I second Explain.  Use it all the time. 
    

Chris Winemiller wrote:
    

Randy Coulman wrote:
      

I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view.
        

I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to open a browser on a 
method or class.

Chris



      

Seems to turn into a wish list thread soon :)

For find, I would love to unify all find command in a "A one box find  
its all and searches while you type" solution like Apple's spotlight.

cheers,
AA

On 21 Mar 2007, at 22:33 , Tim Hutchison wrote:

>> I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view.
> I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to open a browser on a  
> method or class.

Me too, please don't throw it out.


R
-

But you could also right-click on a class in the code and say "Browse
Class in New Window", same for implementers, senders etc; there's quite
a few context sensitive items in the right-click menu, no need to go to
the launcher,

-Boris

--
+1.604.689.0322
DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4

[hidden email]

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is
private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender and delete the entire message including any
attachments.

Thank you.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Winemiller [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:41 PM
> To: VWNC
> Subject: Re: New Topic To Beat Into the Ground
>
> I use it because it's a) fewer mouse clicks and b) requires less mouse
> motion (i.e. I don't have to go to the Launcher, choose to view a
class or
> method, and then fill in the resulting window).
>
> Chris
>
> Michael Lucas-Smith wrote:
>
> Are you using it because the correct menu option isn't
available?
> I've
> seen people use Explain solely to browse to a class because
"Browse parcel
> view.
>
>
> I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to
open a

On Mar 21, 2007, at 10:07 PM, Dennis Smith wrote:

> Hm -- did not know about zoom -- probably a bad feature as you  
> would only want it for "long methods",
>        I might start to use it :(
>

Zoom can be very useful for other views besides method source.

I would hate to see it go.

R
-

On Mar 21, 2007, at 10:18 PM, Charles Adams wrote:


yes, and please make it overridable with the shift key.

(Im from the one and a half browser school I guess)


R
-

Never seen "Browse to Class".

I use it to browse a classes and methods. 



Michael Lucas-Smith wrote:

Are you using it because the correct menu option isn't available? I've
seen people use Explain solely to browse to a class because "Browse to
Class" wasn't in their popup menu (or have a shortcut).

Cheers,
Michael

  

I second Explain.  Use it all the time. 
    

Chris Winemiller wrote:
    

Randy Coulman wrote:
      

I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view.
        

I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to open a browser on a 
method or class.

Chris



      

On Mar 21, 2007, at 10:32 PM, Michael Lucas-Smith wrote:

> Are you using it because the correct menu option isn't available? I've
> seen people use Explain solely to browse to a class because "Browse to
> Class" wasn't in their popup menu (or have a shortcut).

I use it regularly to discern in which namespace something lives.

R
-

Travis Griggs wrote:
> So... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things out
> of the Refactoring Browser, what would they be? What are the items you
> look at and find yourself saying: "Why is that still in there? I never
> use that? And I would never show a newbie that."

This is, perhaps surprisingly, a very difficult question. I *use* the
browser constantly, but I don't often look at it to figure out what it
could do that I don't use.

So for me, the only answer is (seriously):

   Remove four features that I don't know are there. Oh, but don't
remove the features I don't know are there but would use all the time if
I only knew they were there. Only remove the ones that I wouldn't use
even if I knew about them.

Regards,

-Martin

Ah, darn it, should've updated the subject line :) That was in response
to Rick's comment wishing for a tool that searched everywhere.

-Boris

--
+1.604.689.0322
DeepCove Labs Ltd.
4th floor 595 Howe Street
Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
http://tinyurl.com/r7uw4

[hidden email]

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

This email is intended only for the persons named in the message
header. Unless otherwise indicated, it contains information that is
private and confidential. If you have received it in error, please
notify the sender and delete the entire message including any
attachments.

Thank you.
I
> get to call foul on you. This is only about removing not adding.
Consider

Just remembered another one:

I don't use any of the probe stuff in the RB.  I'll insert and remove breakpoints using the context menu in the code pane, and occasionally remove all breakpoints in the system using the menu in the launcher, but that's it.

Randy
--
Randy Coulman
[hidden email]

I use Explain, but I'd rather see it replaced with an intelligent Browse
like I used to have in Envy. If the selection was a class name, it
opened a browser. If it was a piece of evaluable code it evaluated it
and opened a browser on the class of the result. Otherwise it could do
what Explain does.

Steve

Things I think we must keep:
- Zoom/Spawn.
        I use these all the time. I often want to refer to several methods at
once while working. So I spawn the reference methods, zoom them, size
them and arrange them on the screen. Often the method is so short that
the zoomed browser won't go quite small enough to properly border the
source. I don't agree that it encourages writing of long methods, but it
certainly helps to read them, especially when trying to refactor them
into smaller methods. Also, I've zoomed on the Visual tab of a
windowSpec before.
        There has been concern about the complexity of the browser, and a
desire to simplify it. I submit that zoom can be an important means of
presenting simpler views to the novice. For example, zoom on my bundle
(or project, whenever that idea might be formalized) to get the system
code out of the way.
        In addition to spawning a method for zooming, it is also useful for
limiting the scope of searches (local vs. global senders of #at:put:,
for example) to a pundle, class, or protocol. Also, a full browser
usually won't show the full length of entries across the top four panes
(pundle, class, protocol, method) unless you make it *very* wide, or
tweak the proportional width of the panes themselves, neither of which
is terribly pleasant. So if I'll be looking at just one
pundle/class/protocol for a while, spawning a browser on that selection
cleans up the presentation a lot.

Dave

Travis Griggs wrote:

Things I never use in the browser:

        Browser --> Parcel View
        View --> New View
        View --> Remove Current View
        Hardcopy
        Tools --> Set Undo Count (this one could be a setting)
        Tools --> Set Default Namespace

Also, I notice:

        Class --> New --> Class Extension ...

        is very similar to:

        Class --> Extend in Package

I use Explain and Spawn often, and not just as shortcuts.

M

IMHO you can definitely kill:
Tools | Source/Rewrite/Code Critic - don't duplicate tabs in menus
Tools | Set Undo Count - should be done through settings tool
Tools | Toolbar, Status Bar - either ditto or should be in View menu

Although you didn't ask, I'll be bad as usual and tell you some more anyway:
I've never used these:
Browser | Open New Browser Ctrl+N (probably should use this)
Edit | Refactor (I use the selectors pane pop-up)
Edit | Browse References/Readers/Writers, Remove Variable
- what are these? They appear if a class is selected, but are grey even when a shared var or ivar is selected.
Edit | Breakpoint stuff (ditto)
Edit | rest (I use ctrl keys or code pane pop-up)
Find menu (I use the toolbar find, apart from strings)
Package, Class, Protocol and Method menus (I use the pane pop-ups, but maybe newbies are more used to menu bars)
Tools | Set Default Namespace

Hardly ever use these:
Buffers/Views | Alt+1, Alt+2
- since I use RB_Tabs. Maybe if RB_Tabs numbered the tabs I would know which to use
Hardcopy
Cut Copy Paste buttons and menu bar items

Of things that people voted to delete, I use:
Zoom (rarely)
Undo (even though I use "Show Refactoring Changes")

The things I use most that are too deep in the menus:

Package pane | pop-up | Store | Compare with Parent
- when I have changes and want to publish and write a version comment. It would be great if this could be easier, e.g. combine the Compare Tool with the publish dialog, and add a toolbar button that opens it

Package pane | pop-up | Store | Browse Versions, then jump back to deselect and select the package in the browser to see what version it really is (the status bar gets out of date), then see if there are newer versions in the list. It would be great if there were a simple "bring me up to date" that would show any newer versions and allow merging & reconciling

Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Travis Griggs [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 21. maaliskuuta 2007 20:25
To: VW NC
Subject: New Topic To Beat Into the Ground

I'm going for an "original" topic to beat to death here. :)

All software accrues features. Over time, it turns out that some of the features become obsolete. Or of little enough value, that carrying them forward is not worth the cost, because they get in the way of other things. The "Lean" thing. There are some obvious advantages to doing so; by vigilantly keeping your interface simple, the approachability is that much better. So... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things out of the Refactoring Browser, what would they be? What are the items you look at and find yourself saying: "Why is that still in there? I never use that? And I would never show a newbie that." Just the Browser please. If you want to nominate another tool to remove 4 things from, throw that at the bottom and we can start another thread.

--
Travis Griggs
Objologist
"It's actually much easier to get around on ice than it is on dry land-if you use skates." - Paul Graham

Mark Roberts wrote:
> Things I never use in the browser:
>
>     View --> New View
>     View --> Remove Current View
>

Please don't remove the browser views. I'm using them all the time for
keeping things of a temporary "project" together during heavy
development. Otherwise my screen would be cluttered with 10+ open
browsers at any one time, which is annoying.

Andre