New Topic To Beat Into the Ground

On 21/03/07, Travis Griggs <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things out of the
> Refactoring Browser, what would they be?

Well, I never use the cut, copy or paste buttons on the toolbar.

--
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The "hardcopy" menu item everywhere.  Does anybody actually use this?

David Buck
Simberon Inc.
www.simberon.com

Travis Griggs wrote:

I'm going for an "original" topic to beat to death here. :)

All software accrues features. Over time, it turns out that some of the features become obsolete. Or of little enough value, that carrying them forward is not worth the cost, because they get in the way of other things. The "Lean" thing. There are some obvious advantages to doing so; by vigilantly keeping your interface simple, the approachability is that much better. So... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things out of the Refactoring Browser, what would they be? What are the items you look at and find yourself saying: "Why is that still in there? I never use that? And I would never show a newbie that." Just the Browser please. If you want to nominate another tool to remove 4 things from, throw that at the bottom and we can start another thread.

--

Travis Griggs

Objologist

"It’s actually much easier to get around on ice than it is on dry land—if you use skates." - Paul Graham

1. Undo (works half the time or less == useless)
2. Parcel View
3. Set Default Namespace (DefaultPackageNamespaces should be in base)
4. All items in the Find menu except Package/Class/Method

Dave, I do use method's hardcopy on occasion to scribble on it, but
could probably live without considering it doesn't include any kind of
printer configuration prompt anyway,

Cheers!

-Boris

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Travis Griggs [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:25 AM
> To: VW NC
> Subject: New Topic To Beat Into the Ground
>
> I'm going for an "original" topic to beat to death here. :)
>
> All software accrues features. Over time, it turns out that some of
the
> features become obsolete. Or of little enough value, that carrying
them
> forward is not worth the cost, because they get in the way of other
> things. The "Lean" thing. There are some obvious advantages to doing
so;
> by vigilantly keeping your interface simple, the approachability is
that
> much better. So... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things out
of
> the Refactoring Browser, what would they be? What are the items you
look
> at and find yourself saying: "Why is that still in there? I never use
> that? And I would never show a newbie that." Just the Browser please.
If
> you want to nominate another tool to remove 4 things from, throw that
at
> the bottom and we can start another thread.
>
> --
> Travis Griggs
> Objologist
> "It's actually much easier to get around on ice than it is on dry
land-if
> you use skates." - Paul Graham
>

Travis Griggs wrote:
Hello,

I also don't use cut, copy and paste icons in the RB's toolbar.

As I am thinking about it now, I don't use toolbar icons at all
nor do I use main menu of the RB. I only use shortcuts and context
menus.

Next I don't use 'Spawn' and 'Hardcopy' in Protocol. Just a second
ago when I was looking at th RB for something I don't use, I clicked
'Hardcopy' and was pretty shocked that the printer started to print... :-)

Oh, and I don't use View/Zoom. I recall like it was yesterday when I
pressed Alt+Z by accident (I didn't even know what I pressed) and was
completely lost because half of my browser was gone... :-)

Hope this helps,

Ladislav Lenart

> So... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things out
> of the Refactoring Browser, what would they be?

Window Menu:
------------
* View

The entire sub menu. I use the toolbar button to add views, a  button
(custom RB extension) to remove views, and the tab (RB_Tabs) to select a
view. Oh by the way, please merge rb_tabs into the base.

* Find -> Reference Path to / All Reference Paths to

I use Trippy for that kind of inquiries.

* Find -> References to Symbol / Classes defining variable / Methods
with string matching

I use the VW launcher for that kind of inquiries.

* Protocol -> Find Method / Spawn / File out /Hardcopy

Never used that

Toolbar:
--------
* Cut / Copy / Paste

I always use the keyboard. Those buttons would be IMHO only useful if
you could cut / copy / paste other things except text

To be honest, I never use undo/redo anyway, cause I'm one of those
persons that always enables "Show refactoring changes" when opening a
fresh image.

* Undo / Redo

Because the bubble help doesn't tell what it's un-/redoing exactly

Context Menus:
--------------
* Hardcopy

I do use 'zoom' a lot when browsing version history graph, other than
that it does nothing but encourage very long methods :)

-Boris

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Thank you.
the
> > features become obsolete. Or of little enough value, that carrying
them
> > forward is not worth the cost, because they get in the way of other
> > things. The "Lean" thing. There are some obvious advantages to doing
so;
> > by vigilantly keeping your interface simple, the approachability is
that
> > much better. So... if you could take as many as 4 (or less) things
out
> > of the Refactoring Browser, what would they be? What are the items
you
> > look at and find yourself saying: "Why is that still in there? I
never
> > use that? And I would never show a newbie that." Just the Browser
> > please. If you want to nominate another tool to remove 4 things
from, :-)
>
> Oh, and I don't use View/Zoom. I recall like it was yesterday when I
> pressed Alt+Z by accident (I didn't even know what I pressed) and was
> completely lost because half of my browser was gone... :-)
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Ladislav Lenart
>

I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view. 

I use the context menus for everything in the Package, Class, Protocol, and Method menus, and I've used almost everything in those context menus at least once, I think. 

I never use the Tools menu. 

I never use the Hierarchy Diagram tab.

The only toolbar buttons I use are New View and Undo.   For the rest, I either use keyboard shortcuts or context menus.

Randy
--
Randy Coulman
[hidden email]

Personally, I like spawn.

I'd agree to get rid of Hardcopy, though.

And, while we're on the subject, let's either upgrade, or eliminate
entirely, one of the least-used pieces of VW: the Ad Hoc SQL tool.  I
know it's not technically a part of the RB, but it is put into the menu
stucture when you load a database parcel.  In its current form, it is
essentially worthless.  

When you execute a query, the result grid is a Table widget, which means
you cannot resize the columns.  If you use Sybase, which we do at Morgan
Stanley, and your result is a Timestamp or a Double, the cell isn't wide
enough to see the entire value, so what's the point?  Some people have
rewritten this using an Aragon Table Widget, or just abandoned it
entirely and downloaded one of the many free SQL tools that are floating
around the internet.  So my suggestion to Cincom is to either put some
effort into this thing and bring it up to some degree of usefulness, or
just dump it entirely.

 
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I never use the hierarchy diagram code tool.

I never use the menu bar, but rather the context menus.

I never use the various search menu items, but rather the tool bar  
search.

I wasn't even aware that stuff like hardcopy or zoom exists.


For the toolbar searchbox, please please please improve it. The "no  
class found proceed with method" dialog is sooo annoying! Also I  
would like to have the string matching search as well as the  
implementor and selectors searches included in the search box.

For the diagram it would be nice to replace it with a more useful  
visualization as eg System Complexity View or Class Blueprint. There  
is a lil' code tool doing this somewhere on SCG store.

cheers,
AA

Randy Coulman wrote:
> I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view.
I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to open a browser on a
method or class.

Chris

Hm -- did not know about zoom -- probably a bad feature as you would only want it for "long methods",
       I might start to use it :(
I can see that hardcopy would hardly ever be used but I can also see that it might be useful, for example
in doing a group code-review.  It might be used once or twice a year, but I think its useful.

I have never used the tool-bar buttons, but they are optional.  I seldom use the banner menu, but
when you need it you need it.  I don't really see any reason to duplicate things in right-click in the menu.

Otto Behrens wrote:

I had to browse around a bit to figure out how I use the browser!

 

I have also never used Hardcopy or Zoom.

 

I realise that I never use the menu items or toolbar in a RB, only context menus.

 

When I want to find something, I use the Launcher toolbar.

 

I never look at the Comment tab (but realise that this may be useful to other people). Is this a good thing?

 

I’ve just looked at a few classes (for the first time) using the Hierarcy Diagram tab: not extremely useful, but pretty. Would be nice if it generated a “DOME”-like diagram that I can move around and hide methods I don’t want to show, etc. Is it unthinkable to integrate DoME here to make it a “Together”-like browser? (I haven’t really used Together, but the idea appealed to me at some point to keep diagrams and code in sync.)

 

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Forgot this one

I never use spawn.
(or any other command that opens a second browser window).

Reading this thread I realize that there might be to schools of RB  
users, the one-window school, using tab, and the multi-window school.  
I personally belong to the one-window school, and would love to have  
a way of telling RB that ALL new browsers window should be opened as  
tab in the existing window.

cheers,
AA


On 21 Mar 2007, at 22:00 , Chris Winemiller wrote:

> Randy Coulman wrote:
>> I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view.
> I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to open a browser on a  
> method or class.
>
> Chris

On 3/21/2007, "Adrian Kuhn" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Now there's a great idea.

I second Explain.  Use it all the time.

Chris Winemiller wrote:
> Randy Coulman wrote:
>> I don't use Explain, Hardcopy, Zoom, or parcel view.
> I use Explain constantly.  It's a handy way to open a browser on a
> method or class.
>
> Chris
>
>
>

Attached is the only reason why I'd miss zoom if it was gone, but
realistically there's probably plenty of code around that's long and
nasty and could benefit from a larger pane when you try to untangle it.
So I'd vote to keep the zoom.

Cheers!

-Boris

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DeepCove Labs Ltd.
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Vancouver, Canada V6C 2T5
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Smith [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:08 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: Vwnc
> Subject: Re: New Topic To Beat Into the Ground
>
> Hm -- did not know about zoom -- probably a bad feature as you would
only
> want it for "long methods",
>        I might start to use it :(
> I can see that hardcopy would hardly ever be used but I can also see
that
> it might be useful, for example
> in doing a group code-review.  It might be used once or twice a year,
but
> I think its useful.
>
> I have never used the tool-bar buttons, but they are optional.  I
seldom
> use the banner menu, but
> when you need it you need it.  I don't really see any reason to
duplicate
> things in right-click in the menu.
>
> Otto Behrens wrote:
>
> I had to browse around a bit to figure out how I use the
browser!
>
>
>
> I have also never used Hardcopy or Zoom.
>
>
>
> I realise that I never use the menu items or toolbar in a RB,
only
> context menus.
>
>
>
> When I want to find something, I use the Launcher toolbar.
>
>
>
> I never look at the Comment tab (but realise that this may be
useful
> to other people). Is this a good thing?
>
>
>
> I've just looked at a few classes (for the first time) using the
> Hierarcy Diagram tab: not extremely useful, but pretty. Would be nice
if
> it generated a "DOME"-like diagram that I can move around and hide
methods
> I don't want to show, etc. Is it unthinkable to integrate DoME here to
> make it a "Together"-like browser? (I haven't really used Together,
but
> the idea appealed to me at some point to keep diagrams and code in
sync.)

Boris Popov wrote:

[ ... ]
> 4. All items in the Find menu except Package/Class/Method

This one gets me.. I'll have to admit using quite a few items in the
"find" menu when looking for some method using a selector from another
class or perhaps an implementor.. However -- I never seem to know which
item to use from the menu -- sometimes I KNOW some selector is being
used or something along those lines and can't get VW to find it for me
and I end up trying all of the "find" options!  I just wish there was a
single "find" menu item that would return all instances of
the item being searched for whether it was in comments, a method
definition, or method used, etc.. That would be my wish!

RBRegexExtensions,

-Boris

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Thank you.
which
> item to use from the menu -- sometimes I KNOW some selector is being
> used or something along those lines and can't get VW to find it for me
> and I end up trying all of the "find" options!  I just wish there was
a
> single "find" menu item that would return all instances of
> the item being searched for whether it was in comments, a method
> definition, or method used, etc.. That would be my wish!

Are you using it because the correct menu option isn't available? I've
seen people use Explain solely to browse to a class because "Browse to
Class" wasn't in their popup menu (or have a shortcut).

Cheers,
Michael

> I second Explain.  Use it all the time.