New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

HilaireFernandes
I don't understand your question


Le 25/12/2017 à 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
>> C. Develop a white board application, easy to extend to add third party
>> features. The OpenBoard[2] we are using in school are merely goods (can't
>> get the right tooling to do geometry for example), handwriting is not nice,
>> hacking on it is super complicated (C++ code), not to mention the building
>> process. A Pharo based one will be fantastic and much easy to hack.
> Is Pharo running on this?

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



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Re: Simple game framework

Clément Béra
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
See those ReadMe:



Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files with the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform. Already key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.

Cheers


On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 6:58 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
You may have different kind of games; for example in 2D games, it could be fixed frame, side scrolling, up scrolling, isometric, etc. To get it started easily, it could come with graphic and audio banks.

I really don't have much idea how such a general system should be designed. Only wrote once a commercial decades ago on ARM code.

Will look a the bloc tutorial for game[1]

[1] https://github.com/pharo-graphics/Tutorials/


Le 25/12/2017 à 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
B. Build an environment in Pharo to develop simple games, targeted for kids.
There are some teenagers in my school likely to get interested on such
courses. If it could result in standalone games build thanks to wish 4., so
good.
I'm interested into that this is why I proposed to "laura"
maximilliano to work on such framework.
Now I never got the time to do a pass over it and to release what I learned.
    - direction
    - handling on moves.
    - I created a grid data structure but this is the least interesting part.

If you want we can discuss what I learned.
Also students in Prague are building games on top of Bloc.



--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu






--
Clément Béra
Pharo consortium engineer
Bâtiment B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq
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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

kilon.alios
In reply to this post by Torsten Bergmann

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:18 PM Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt
for Pharo:

  http://www.squeaksource.com/UIBuilder/

Now marked as "Failed attempt of develop a UI builder for Pharo-Smalltalk. That version
only works in Pharo 1.1. Is opened for any developer.".

Dont know why it failed ... maybe because the UI (especially with Morphic legacy)
is still too shaky are in Pharo.

But I guess the order will be/needs to be:

 - good and stable graphics framework (maybe solved with Bloc)
 - good and stable standardized widget set (maybe solved with Brick)
 - then place a UI builder on top of it

Bye

Yeap that's the ideology about GUI designers , which is why so few IDE's have them. It's like the man waiting for the perfect woman to marry, ending up all alone and miserable. 

As a designer myself I cannot follow easily this ideology. Actually I cannot follow it at all. 

I see it the exact opposite way, if you don't have a good GUI designer , your ability to provide a stable and powerful GUI API will be limited because less people will use it. 

The most stable and powerful GUI api I ever used was VCL , the standard library of Delphi and surprise, surprise it has a GUI designer. The most powerful I used so far.

Open source wise QT dominates , surprise , surprise it has a very powerful GUI designer. 

On Windows you have VS studio GUI designer on MacOS and iOS the XCode GUI Designer and so forth. 

There a ton of GUI APIs out there that almost none uses, is it because they are not stable ?

Well ... *cough* Windows *cough* ... sure. 

Making GUIs via code, is not as much fun, its slower and ends up being also less flexible as you can easily lose track of what you intend to do trying to understand the internals of a GUI API. Not fun at all. Especially if you experienced the horrors of MFC. 

But I am realistic , don't expect a GUI designer any time soon in Pharo. They are very hard to make and coders being allergic to GUIs does not help motivate to make one. 

I am ok with just a modular image format. 

Also I drink my own poison. I have made my own GUI API in Python with OpenGL (used from inside Blender for an application I am developing) very loosely inspired by some things I liked about Morphic. The more complex it becomes the more I feel the need to create a designer that will handle the boring stuff for me. 

For now I use the excellent excuse you provide of stability and inability to promise the structure of the GUI API in the future. But its an excuse with an expiration date. Making the GUI I have in my head using plain code , without a GUI designer, is a nightmare that is highly unlikely I will let myself experience. 
 
On the other hand when one makes his own GUI API the good news is that he can make it fits well in the workflow of a GUI designer. This way instead of trying to make the Designer according to the API , I make the API according to the designer. 

 But the good news is that it has helped me realize the amount work needed to put in GUI API to become really useful. Fortunately making API to find only my needs has made things far easier and far smaller. I cannot imagine making something like Bloc and keeping my sanity. This way the next time I complain about a GUI API, I will have a whole different level of respect for the developers behind it. 
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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

SergeStinckwich
Yes we talk about something like that with Clément some months ago.

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 25 déc. 2017 à 20:29, Dimitris Chloupis <[hidden email]> a écrit :


On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 3:18 PM Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt
for Pharo:

  http://www.squeaksource.com/UIBuilder/

Now marked as "Failed attempt of develop a UI builder for Pharo-Smalltalk. That version
only works in Pharo 1.1. Is opened for any developer.".

Dont know why it failed ... maybe because the UI (especially with Morphic legacy)
is still too shaky are in Pharo.

But I guess the order will be/needs to be:

 - good and stable graphics framework (maybe solved with Bloc)
 - good and stable standardized widget set (maybe solved with Brick)
 - then place a UI builder on top of it

Bye

Yeap that's the ideology about GUI designers , which is why so few IDE's have them. It's like the man waiting for the perfect woman to marry, ending up all alone and miserable. 

As a designer myself I cannot follow easily this ideology. Actually I cannot follow it at all. 

I see it the exact opposite way, if you don't have a good GUI designer , your ability to provide a stable and powerful GUI API will be limited because less people will use it. 

The most stable and powerful GUI api I ever used was VCL , the standard library of Delphi and surprise, surprise it has a GUI designer. The most powerful I used so far.

Open source wise QT dominates , surprise , surprise it has a very powerful GUI designer. 

On Windows you have VS studio GUI designer on MacOS and iOS the XCode GUI Designer and so forth. 

There a ton of GUI APIs out there that almost none uses, is it because they are not stable ?

Well ... *cough* Windows *cough* ... sure. 

Making GUIs via code, is not as much fun, its slower and ends up being also less flexible as you can easily lose track of what you intend to do trying to understand the internals of a GUI API. Not fun at all. Especially if you experienced the horrors of MFC. 

But I am realistic , don't expect a GUI designer any time soon in Pharo. They are very hard to make and coders being allergic to GUIs does not help motivate to make one. 

I am ok with just a modular image format. 

Also I drink my own poison. I have made my own GUI API in Python with OpenGL (used from inside Blender for an application I am developing) very loosely inspired by some things I liked about Morphic. The more complex it becomes the more I feel the need to create a designer that will handle the boring stuff for me. 

For now I use the excellent excuse you provide of stability and inability to promise the structure of the GUI API in the future. But its an excuse with an expiration date. Making the GUI I have in my head using plain code , without a GUI designer, is a nightmare that is highly unlikely I will let myself experience. 
 
On the other hand when one makes his own GUI API the good news is that he can make it fits well in the workflow of a GUI designer. This way instead of trying to make the Designer according to the API , I make the API according to the designer. 

 But the good news is that it has helped me realize the amount work needed to put in GUI API to become really useful. Fortunately making API to find only my needs has made things far easier and far smaller. I cannot imagine making something like Bloc and keeping my sanity. This way the next time I complain about a GUI API, I will have a whole different level of respect for the developers behind it. 
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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by Stephane Ducasse-3


On 25 December 2017 at 22:58, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Torsten Bergmann <[hidden email]> wrote:
> A GUI builder is always a nice thing ... and there already was an attempt
> for Pharo:
>
>   http://www.squeaksource.com/UIBuilder/
>
> Now marked as "Failed attempt of develop a UI builder for Pharo-Smalltalk. That version
> only works in Pharo 1.1. Is opened for any developer.".
>
> Dont know why it failed ... maybe because the UI (especially with Morphic legacy)
> is still too shaky are in Pharo.

The developer stopped when he saw that he could not build a excel like grid.

Oh, then let me add an Excel-like grid as my Christmas wish 
(or does FastTable already provide much of this?)

cheers -ben 

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Re: Building an application with P7

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes


On 26 December 2017 at 01:51, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
Let's discuss it in another thread.

Until now, I moved slowly to update the drgeo build script to adjust to Tonel file repository and P7; mostly done now. Will now look for help from Pavel to build the drgeo image from a tiny core.

About the other problems to get a user ready drgeo application based on the forthcoming P7:

- set up an application 64bits VMs architecture for Linux, OS X and Windows (aka one-click image). I understand the later may be a problem as there is not yet 64bits VMs.

- get over the strange oddities appearing with P7, long and tedious but mandatory; otherwise this sets back drgeo as an end user (student, teacher)  will immediately run away if drgeo is unpredictable. It really took me a long time to get drgeo right on P3 because these oddities only show up at runtime, under specific scenario. There are easy to fix, thought. Writing more tests should help too.

It would be great to have Issues opened with new tests attached for these specific cases 
that currently fail which we can work on make green.
They make the problem nicely explicit to work on.

cheers -ben

 

Hilaire


Le 25/12/2017 à 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
5. fulfill the promise of tiny image, aka bootstrap and 4.
Did you see that pavel produced a smaller image than the first
bootstrapped version

All these wishes are under construction, so likely to happen \o/


I have personal three wishes (beside good health of course), sharing it in
case others are interested to hack on it too:

A. get DrGeo working on P7, particularly on the bootstrap process.
Let us know the problem you face because this is important that you can.



--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu




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Re: Building an application with P7

HilaireFernandes
I meant more tests in DrGeo to expose its features, and to discover
where newer Pharo breaks it.

Hilaire

Le 25/12/2017 à 23:59, Ben Coman a écrit :

>
>     really took me a long time to get drgeo right on P3 because these
>     oddities only show up at runtime, under specific scenario. There
>     are easy to fix, thought. Writing more tests should help too.
>
>
> It would be great to have Issues opened with new tests attached for
> these specific cases
> that currently fail which we can work on make green.
> They make the problem nicely explicit to work on.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



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Re: Simple game framework

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Clément Béra
Read. SDL + Cairo is the way you have been. I did not imagine Cairo was
good at manipulating block of bitmap.

Is Cairo stable over time in Pharo? I wonder will it be wiped out. More
generally, I wonder what is the stable ground to build graphic
application on Pharo?


Le 25/12/2017 à 19:32, Clément Bera a écrit :

> See those ReadMe:
>
> https://github.com/clementbera/wizard-battle-arena
>
> https://github.com/clementbera/SpiderInvasion
>
> Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files
> with the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform.
> Already key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.
>
> Cheers

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

Stephane Ducasse-3
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
Yes saw and my second answer took that into account. We were
discussing about making sure that we can write applications vs. code.
We should be able to package an application.
The experience accumulated with the launcher and the effort on making
Pharo silent (not forcing to write everywhere files)
are in that direction too.

Stef

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 6:25 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I really don't mean a GUI builder :-)
>
>
> Le 25/12/2017 à 15:57, Stephane Ducasse a écrit :
>>>
>>> 4. application builder. Smalltalk/X has a GUI to build a standalone
>>> application, was not able to get it working, but it probably worked at
>>> some
>>> time in the past (see screenshot). Such a feature in Pharo will be
>>> fantastic, and likely a kill feature for the ones developing stand alone
>>> application; yes there are still some;-)
>>
>> We would like the same. Now spec was an increment in that direction
>> because behind the UI builder you need to reuse the model. So
>> with a pass on spec we will be set to be able to build the builder part
>>
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>

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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

Stephane Ducasse-3
In reply to this post by Evan Donahue
Hi Evan

yes thierry was discussing with clement and we will see :).

Stef

On Mon, Dec 25, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Evan Donahue <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Given the recent stirrings of AI-related applications in Pharo, I guess I'm
> wishing for vm support for vector operations/fast math. I heard something
> about that a while ago on the polymath chanel, so I figure it can't hurt to
> wish.
>
> Evan
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>

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Re: Simple game framework

Stephane Ducasse-3
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes
Hi Hilaire

yes you can have multiple approaches. I was focusing on tiles-based
ones: sokoban, miners..
SDL2.0 is our plan.
For Cairo we asked Bloc guys to make sure that we can use Cairo as
back end to avoid to have 20 mb by default
with Mozz2d (and mozz2d is not really packaged by their creators so
high risk) so Cairo should stay around.

Now I would like to use Bloc for tile based games.
Stef


On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 4:19 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Read. SDL + Cairo is the way you have been. I did not imagine Cairo was good
> at manipulating block of bitmap.
>
> Is Cairo stable over time in Pharo? I wonder will it be wiped out. More
> generally, I wonder what is the stable ground to build graphic application
> on Pharo?
>
>
> Le 25/12/2017 à 19:32, Clément Bera a écrit :
>>
>> See those ReadMe:
>>
>> https://github.com/clementbera/wizard-battle-arena
>>
>> https://github.com/clementbera/SpiderInvasion
>>
>> Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files with
>> the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform. Already
>> key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.
>>
>> Cheers
>
>
> --
> Dr. Geo
> http://drgeo.eu
>
>
>

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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

CyrilFerlicot
In reply to this post by CyrilFerlicot
On 12/23/2017 06:57 PM, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote:

> On 12/23/2017 05:58 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>> Hi everybody,
>>
>
> Hi :)
>
>> This looks like a good moment of the year to ask all of you what would you want to see in Pharo next year.
>> Features, improvements, radical changes, etc…. whatever you want.
>>
>
> I'll list the things I wanted the most those last months :)
>
> - To be able to load a private git project from a private server via
> Metacello API
> - To be able to depend on a git project from a private server in
> BaselineOf/ConfigurationOf
> - 64bits vm more recent that does not crash 1/4 of the time (It would
> help to deploy apps for some customers with older linux distributions)
> - 64bits Windows vm (But as far as I know, there is progress on this
> side already)
> - Continue to push Iceberg (I am not really specific because I want a
> lot on that part. For more details, I open issues on Iceberg repository
> often :) )
>
> All those points are in the optic to make business with Pharo easier.
I also forgot: a real headless :)

>
>> Of course, this list will not be a roadmap and it does not means we will implement all of it (as always, time drives our possibilities), but is a good moment for us a a community to check where we are and where we wan to go next :)
>>
>
> Of course :)
>
>> So, let’s those wishes come!
>>
>
> Also, I would like to thanks everyone because I really like my Pharo
> journey and it would not be possible without you! :)
>
>> cheers,
>> Esteban
>>
>
>

--
Cyril Ferlicot
https://ferlicot.fr

http://www.synectique.eu
2 rue Jacques Prévert 01,
59650 Villeneuve d'ascq France


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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

bpi
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
Hi Esteban,

Thanks for asking. My one and only wish is more stability for the stable version, i.e. bug fixes for Pharo 6, especially the VMs but also the image.

Thanks for Pharo!

Cheers,
Bernhard

> Am 23.12.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> This looks like a good moment of the year to ask all of you what would you want to see in Pharo next year.
> Features, improvements, radical changes, etc…. whatever you want.
>
> Of course, this list will not be a roadmap and it does not means we will implement all of it (as always, time drives our possibilities), but is a good moment for us a a community to check where we are and where we wan to go next :)
>
> So, let’s those wishes come!
>
> cheers,
> Esteban


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Re: Simple game framework

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Clément Béra
What is the reason using Cairo over SDSL? Is not SDL just enought?

Hilaire


Le 25/12/2017 à 19:32, Clément Bera a écrit :
>
> https://github.com/clementbera/wizard-battle-arena
>
> https://github.com/clementbera/SpiderInvasion
>
> Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files
> with the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform.
> Already key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



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Re: Simple game framework

HilaireFernandes
In reply to this post by Clément Béra
IF there is a Pharo binding for SDL, why not audio from SDSL?


Le 25/12/2017 à 19:32, Clément Bera a écrit :
> Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files
> with the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform.
> Already key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.
>

--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu



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Re: Simple game framework

Clément Béra
In reply to this post by HilaireFernandes


On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the reason using Cairo over SDSL? Is not SDL just enought?

My understanding is that SDL provides the surface to draw on as part of the window, but not a 2D vector graphic engine on top. You've got only draw Line/Rect/pixel functions in SDL. To render a svg/png/jpeg that you want for games on the SDL surface, the normal way is to use a third party library such as Cairo.

For 3D I believe people use SDL combined with open GL or direct3D instead of Cairo but I don't know the details.

For events (keyboard, mouse, joypad) I use SDL event management and it works differently on each OS. I wrote in the readMe the different set-ups to make it work on each OS. On Windows and Linux I can use the latest Pharo. On Mac I use old Pharo 5 images.

I guess it's possible to use SDL for audio, but it seems there is no code relative to audio in the SDL binding and in OSWindow in Pharo. That's why I did not go that way. I tried multiple things but I successfully run audio code in Pharo only with the openAL binding and .wav file (and even in this case, I had to install external librairies in Mac OS...).

Whichever if Cairo stays around or not does not really matter, normally one uses Cairo through Athens or Sparta, abstraction layers on top of 2D graphic engines. I've worked with other 2D engines and the API are always almost the same, so I have no doubt that if Cairo support is dropped we can re-bind Athens/Sparta with another 2D engine (such as engines used by web browsers).



Hilaire



Le 25/12/2017 à 19:32, Clément Bera a écrit :

https://github.com/clementbera/wizard-battle-arena

https://github.com/clementbera/SpiderInvasion

Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files with the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform. Already key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.


--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu






--
Clément Béra
Pharo consortium engineer
Bâtiment B 40, avenue Halley 59650 Villeneuve d'Ascq
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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

Pierce Ng-3
In reply to this post by CyrilFerlicot
On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 04:41:56PM +0100, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote:
> I also forgot: a real headless :)

And real "embeddability". :-) I'll write GUIs with Pascal/Lazarus if I must.
Being able to implement domain logic stuff in Pharo embedded into the
application will super charge productivity.

Pierce

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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

philippe.back@highoctane.be


On Dec 29, 2017 02:48, "Pierce Ng" <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 04:41:56PM +0100, Cyril Ferlicot D. wrote:
> I also forgot: a real headless :)

And real "embeddability". :-) I'll write GUIs with Pascal/Lazarus if I must.

That would actually suit me very well too.

Being able to implement domain logic stuff in Pharo embedded into the
application will super charge productivity.

+1 million

Phil

Pierce


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Re: Simple game framework

kilon.alios
In reply to this post by Clément Béra
Problem is that people , coders and users, tend to underestimate the complexity of game development.

99% of the technology we use nowadays is game based.

Powerful GPUs utilized by consumer computers and supercomputer alike to deal with highly complex problems like cancer research and simulations of the Bing Bang.

Massive memory that is millions time large than technology that existed 30 years ago. A computer with 128GB of memory is exactly 1 million times bigger than my first computer with 128 kbs of memory that will become 30 years old in exactly one year.

Massive super fast hard drives.

Multi core CPUs

The internet.

Anything you look around you has so massively progressed , only because of high end games that have created the most profitable business for half a century. No other kind of software comes remotely close to pushing the hardware to such extremes and yet being so massively popular as high end games.

So game APIs are extremely complex even for the simplest games. In Python for example we have , or rather had , Pygame , it’s as massively popular with beginners game developers as its massively unpopular with profession or very experienced amateur game developers. The latest Pygame is basically SDL with some extra game stuff.

Why people don’t use it beyond proof of concept ?

One word

“Simple”

What the rest of the computer world pursue as the holy grail in game development is nothing more than a bad allergy .

Why ?

Because You will be far better in embracing the extremely complex engines on the market even for the creation of the simplest games. The moment you decide that using such an engine is an overkill for your so simple needs and that you don’t have to endure their very steep learning curve is the moment you condemn yourself to a full rewrite if there is a remote chance of taking the game one step further.

We all know how much fun full rewrites are.

In short making games is no game.

Go use a professional engine and you can thank me later.
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 at 19:53, Clément Bera <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Hilaire <[hidden email]> wrote:
What is the reason using Cairo over SDSL? Is not SDL just enought?

My understanding is that SDL provides the surface to draw on as part of the window, but not a 2D vector graphic engine on top. You've got only draw Line/Rect/pixel functions in SDL. To render a svg/png/jpeg that you want for games on the SDL surface, the normal way is to use a third party library such as Cairo.

For 3D I believe people use SDL combined with open GL or direct3D instead of Cairo but I don't know the details.

For events (keyboard, mouse, joypad) I use SDL event management and it works differently on each OS. I wrote in the readMe the different set-ups to make it work on each OS. On Windows and Linux I can use the latest Pharo. On Mac I use old Pharo 5 images.

I guess it's possible to use SDL for audio, but it seems there is no code relative to audio in the SDL binding and in OSWindow in Pharo. That's why I did not go that way. I tried multiple things but I successfully run audio code in Pharo only with the openAL binding and .wav file (and even in this case, I had to install external librairies in Mac OS...).

Whichever if Cairo stays around or not does not really matter, normally one uses Cairo through Athens or Sparta, abstraction layers on top of 2D graphic engines. I've worked with other 2D engines and the API are always almost the same, so I have no doubt that if Cairo support is dropped we can re-bind Athens/Sparta with another 2D engine (such as engines used by web browsers).



Hilaire



Le 25/12/2017 à 19:32, Clément Bera a écrit :

https://github.com/clementbera/wizard-battle-arena

https://github.com/clementbera/SpiderInvasion

Audio has always been a problem to me. I successfully run audio files with the open AL binding, but I failed to do so cross-platform. Already key-bindings coherent cross platform is difficult.


--
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu




--
Clément Béra
Pharo consortium engineer
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Re: New Year Wishlist (2018) ?

Stéphane Ducasse
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
nice list :)

On 30 Dec 2017, at 13:13, Norbert Hartl <[hidden email]> wrote:

My list would be in order of importance:

- stable 64bit vm
- mature iceberg plus dependent tools
- no endless loop in debugging anymore aka real stoppable computation
- bootstrap aka small image
- vm with collaboration support
- working SSL on newer distributions
- unified keymapping
- improved epicea
- better parser support aka core petit parser in the image
- basic document model in the image for documentation aka mini pillar
- bloc plus basic widgets
- better modification tracking support
- runtime traits / dynamic layers
- better set of slot classes for types and relations

Norbert

Am 23.12.2017 um 17:58 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <[hidden email]>:

Hi everybody,

This looks like a good moment of the year to ask all of you what would you want to see in Pharo next year.
Features, improvements, radical changes, etc…. whatever you want.

Of course, this list will not be a roadmap and it does not means we will implement all of it (as always, time drives our possibilities), but is a good moment for us a a community to check where we are and where we wan to go next :)

So, let’s those wishes come!

cheers,
Esteban


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Stéphane Ducasse
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