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Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

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Jens Lincke

Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

Hi,

Does anybody know which Graphic Cards / OpenGL Versions
are supported by or work somehow with Croquet under Linux?

- Jens -

Ric Moore

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 22:10 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anybody know which Graphic Cards / OpenGL Versions
> are supported by or work somehow with Croquet under Linux?
>
> - Jens -

Well, among all Linux distros, nVidia seems to have the least amount of
problems. While you do have to update your driver every time you update
your kernel, as it is closed source, the results are worth it. ATI would
be the next choice, but from what I see on the mail-lists, they have
more problems it seems. I do not personally recommend them if nVidia is
available. As usual, YMMV. Just have plenty of memory, onboard openGL
support and hardware acceleration. Les and I both run older 5200's which
are pretty cheap nowadays. I highly recommend that you do not use the
motherboard video hardware as some just use system ram for video ram and
that tends to make Linux crazy. Better to get a dedicated graphical
card. :) Ric

--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
http://www.wayward4now.net
================================================

Jens Lincke

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

Ric Moore schrieb:

> On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 22:10 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anybody know which Graphic Cards / OpenGL Versions
>> are supported by or work somehow with Croquet under Linux?
>>
>> - Jens -
>>
>
> Well, among all Linux distros, nVidia seems to have the least amount of
> problems. While you do have to update your driver every time you update
> your kernel, as it is closed source, the results are worth it. ATI would
> be the next choice, but from what I see on the mail-lists, they have
> more problems it seems. I do not personally recommend them if nVidia is
> available. As usual, YMMV. Just have plenty of memory, onboard openGL
> support and hardware acceleration. Les and I both run older 5200's which
> are pretty cheap nowadays. I highly recommend that you do not use the
> motherboard video hardware as some just use system ram for video ram and
> that tends to make Linux crazy. Better to get a dedicated graphical
> card. :) Ric
>
>

I asked because all my linux pcs have an nvidia card inside and I wondered
if plopp, which uses the opengl stuff of croquet would run on other
systems like:

OpenGL renderer string: PowerVR KYRO
OpenGL version string: 1.2.1

or if this doesn't matter as long as it is opengl...

- Jens -

Ric Moore

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 23:34 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:

> I asked because all my linux pcs have an nvidia card inside and I wondered
> if plopp, which uses the opengl stuff of croquet would run on other
> systems like:
>
> OpenGL renderer string: PowerVR KYRO
> OpenGL version string: 1.2.1
>
> or if this doesn't matter as long as it is opengl...

I haven't tried plopp yet as I am trying to perfect my machine and the
croquet platform to the point that I could create a decent rpm for it,
and later a dpackage file, that has all of the correct depends so that
an install would work right out of the box, with everything else in
place Linux wise. I'm still dinking with my xorg.conf file as I get a
screen flicker in some of the worlds. I had the same problem with beryl
for my desktop and I bet the problems are similar somehow. Feel free to
call upon me or Les (who's really the brains around here) If we can
assist. I'm hoping to drag a lot more linux users into the ranks of the
faithful. Ric

--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
http://www.wayward4now.net
================================================

Les Howell

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 23:24 -0400, Ric Moore wrote:

> On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 23:34 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:
>
> > I asked because all my linux pcs have an nvidia card inside and I wondered
> > if plopp, which uses the opengl stuff of croquet would run on other
> > systems like:
> >
> > OpenGL renderer string: PowerVR KYRO
> > OpenGL version string: 1.2.1
> >
> > or if this doesn't matter as long as it is opengl...
>
> I haven't tried plopp yet as I am trying to perfect my machine and the
> croquet platform to the point that I could create a decent rpm for it,
> and later a dpackage file, that has all of the correct depends so that
> an install would work right out of the box, with everything else in
> place Linux wise. I'm still dinking with my xorg.conf file as I get a
> screen flicker in some of the worlds. I had the same problem with beryl
> for my desktop and I bet the problems are similar somehow. Feel free to
> call upon me or Les (who's really the brains around here) If we can
> assist. I'm hoping to drag a lot more linux users into the ranks of the
> faithful. Ric
>

Hi, Jens,
The issues around all these libraries is the dependency on the call
syntax. The loader will link to the library (this means find the
required routines based on a map in the file being loaded) and as long
as the routine names are the same, things should link OK. But if the
actions taken by the routines are different, there may be unintended
consequences. So, I recommend linking to the version specified by
Croquet, at least for now. As the OpenGL stuff matures, the base
libraries will stabilize and the linkages will work across almost all of
them. This stuff just takes time in the OS community as the various
parties and ideas converge onto a common set of commands and functions.

Howard Stearn may have more input on this issue.

Regards,
Les Howell

Howard Stearns

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

Les wrote:
> .... So, I recommend linking to the version specified by
> Croquet, at least for now. ...
> Howard Stearn may have more input on this issue.

I don't.

[I did give some patches to Ric for testing, which purport to do what Bert has
been saying to do for a very long time. If they work, I'll post to croquet-dev
for broader testing. But this isn't anything fancy. It's just having Squeak look
for (today's version of) the right files on Linux without having to make
external links.]

Les Howell

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

In reply to this post by Jens Lincke

On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 22:10 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anybody know which Graphic Cards / OpenGL Versions
> are supported by or work somehow with Croquet under Linux?

Hi, Jens,
My older Rage Pro doesn't seem to operate the rendering engine. This
means it is too slow to be useful in Croquet.
On the other hand, a two year newer system with nvidia works fine.
Other people seem to say about the same things, with some having success
with ATI newer cards (I seem to see the 9600 as haveing been best), but
all the nvidia folks seem to be having good results.

Bear in mind that all cards can be "made to work", but some will be
easier to support. Nvidia seems to have specifically addressed the
needs of the Linux community, and the updates and so forth are so far
quite good.

YMMV!
Regards,
Les H

Ric Moore

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

In reply to this post by Jens Lincke

On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 23:34 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:

> Ric Moore schrieb:
> > On Mon, 2007-04-02 at 22:10 +0200, Jens Lincke wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Does anybody know which Graphic Cards / OpenGL Versions
> >> are supported by or work somehow with Croquet under Linux?
> >>
> >> - Jens -
> >>
> >
> > Well, among all Linux distros, nVidia seems to have the least amount of
> > problems. While you do have to update your driver every time you update
> > your kernel, as it is closed source, the results are worth it. ATI would
> > be the next choice, but from what I see on the mail-lists, they have
> > more problems it seems. I do not personally recommend them if nVidia is
> > available. As usual, YMMV. Just have plenty of memory, onboard openGL
> > support and hardware acceleration. Les and I both run older 5200's which
> > are pretty cheap nowadays. I highly recommend that you do not use the
> > motherboard video hardware as some just use system ram for video ram and
> > that tends to make Linux crazy. Better to get a dedicated graphical
> > card. :) Ric
> >
> >
> I asked because all my linux pcs have an nvidia card inside and I wondered
> if plopp, which uses the opengl stuff of croquet would run on other
> systems like:
>
> OpenGL renderer string: PowerVR KYRO
> OpenGL version string: 1.2.1
>
> or if this doesn't matter as long as it is opengl...
>
> - Jens -

I have a better handle on my own openGL problems now. I ripped out the
rpm for nVidia and shoved in the nVidia drive package directly from
nVidia. I still get some red flashes which look like they come from the
underlying desktop, but it works without any dinking with the Croquet
package. I'm no hardware guru, but it works. Ric

--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
http://www.wayward4now.net
================================================

Paul Sheldon-2

Re: Non-nvidia OpenGL under Linux

In reply to this post by Jens Lincke

I am happy for my poor friends.

Thanks. I don't think they'll be doing FC6,
but this makes their "rabbiting" more plausible.