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NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

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timrowledge

NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

I've now been able to build a release of NuScratch for Squeak5.3 - many thanks for the help in working out the keyboard tracking and other issues - that will soon appear in the official Raspberry Pi OS release stream. RPF's main interest was in making sure it could work as they move to having pulse audio as the default sound system, but it was a chance to fix a couple of other things too.

Not least is a version for the still-beta Pi 64 bit OS release; the final obstacle to that was surmounted this week with the successful build of a 64 bit version of the pigpio library that worked to waggle the i2c & SPI pins correctly. Obviously, this is going to be the first fairly widespread use of the AArch64 Cog VM, which I find quite exciting. Probably not as exciting as Eliot does though :-)

I haven't yet updated SqueakMap but the SqueakSource packages are up to date.

Caveats - You do need the UnicodePlugin available for things to run cleanly. This isn't routinely built, I think. You also need the Verdana font files and the Scratch resources directory in order to do a build from sources.

You can download a somewhat Pi-specific temporary package from

(32 bit) https://mega.nz/file/eElm2SAQ#2Vk5_Z5oUf8G6kidi87Cv6d7HyG7QNXniWE60l2iSFU
or
(64 bit) https://mega.nz/file/mR0SGSwQ#gIX31V9YSCD9tcrgAGaVVaz5GyH2nU2_ixbW_9Ileb0

Have fun - and if you find any bugs keep them to yourself, dammit, I need to spend some time on other things...

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange OpCodes: BPB: Branch on Program Bug

marcel.taeumel

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

:-D This is good news! Thanks Tim. :-)

Best,

Marcel

Am 20.02.2021 19:17:04 schrieb tim Rowledge <[hidden email]>:
I've now been able to build a release of NuScratch for Squeak5.3 - many thanks for the help in working out the keyboard tracking and other issues - that will soon appear in the official Raspberry Pi OS release stream. RPF's main interest was in making sure it could work as they move to having pulse audio as the default sound system, but it was a chance to fix a couple of other things too.

Not least is a version for the still-beta Pi 64 bit OS release; the final obstacle to that was surmounted this week with the successful build of a 64 bit version of the pigpio library that worked to waggle the i2c & SPI pins correctly. Obviously, this is going to be the first fairly widespread use of the AArch64 Cog VM, which I find quite exciting. Probably not as exciting as Eliot does though :-)

I haven't yet updated SqueakMap but the SqueakSource packages are up to date.

Caveats - You do need the UnicodePlugin available for things to run cleanly. This isn't routinely built, I think. You also need the Verdana font files and the Scratch resources directory in order to do a build from sources.

You can download a somewhat Pi-specific temporary package from

(32 bit) https://mega.nz/file/eElm2SAQ#2Vk5_Z5oUf8G6kidi87Cv6d7HyG7QNXniWE60l2iSFU
or
(64 bit) https://mega.nz/file/mR0SGSwQ#gIX31V9YSCD9tcrgAGaVVaz5GyH2nU2_ixbW_9Ileb0

Have fun - and if you find any bugs keep them to yourself, dammit, I need to spend some time on other things...

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange OpCodes: BPB: Branch on Program Bug

timrowledge

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

On 2021-02-20, at 11:10 AM, Marcel Taeumel <[hidden email]> wrote:

:-D This is good news! Thanks Tim. :-)

I hope it helps & interests people.

In the actual Scratch-world it would be nice to add some of the more sophisticated blocks that Jens Mönig has made for !Snap, to add the ability to load SVG images (and better yet, edit them!), allow much bigger stages, saving of projects as text - and reading them back in, and maybe even making a block->Smalltalk transpiler/JIT. I did a trivial test a while back and some modest cases like

Screen Shot 2021-02-06 at 8.41.02 PM.png

would convert to

((a \\ 4) rounded > 2

and:

[10 random = 5])

ifTrue:

[ "do something"

Which very roughly is 1.5 million times faster. So I think it might be interesting.

One of the things I'd really love to see done is separating out the block-stacking-UI stuff from the Scratch stage/sprite thing.

I'm pretty convinced that using a block stacking UI to assemble simple scripts for "Smart Home Control" would be a win. The generic Scratch "many scripts running kinda-parallel" concept would be excellent for that. Imagine being able to make little scripts for each light switch and bulb and outlet and sensor in your house.

The even simpler block-stacking way of making small workflows without worrying about parallelism would be useful - I even have a business case for that. Imagine being able to create plain old methods that way, in a browser. Remember the BASIC syntax stuff DanI did years ago?

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful Latin Phrases:- Radix lecti = Couch potato

David T. Lewis

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

In reply to this post by timrowledge

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 10:16:51AM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
> I've now been able to build a release of NuScratch for Squeak5.3 - many thanks for the help in working out the keyboard tracking and other issues - that will soon appear in the official Raspberry Pi OS release stream. RPF's main interest was in making sure it could work as they move to having pulse audio as the default sound system, but it was a chance to fix a couple of other things too.
>

That is great news!

> Not least is a version for the still-beta Pi 64 bit OS release; the final obstacle to that was surmounted this week with the successful build of a 64 bit version of the pigpio library that worked to waggle the i2c & SPI pins correctly. Obviously, this is going to be the first fairly widespread use of the AArch64 Cog VM, which I find quite exciting. Probably not as exciting as Eliot does though :-)
>
> I haven't yet updated SqueakMap but the SqueakSource packages are up to date.
>
> Caveats - You do need the UnicodePlugin available for things to run cleanly. This isn't routinely built, I think.

I'd like to try NuScratch on my AMD Linux box, can you remind me what pango
and/or cairo development libraries you installed for the UnicodePlugin? Some
magic apt-get commands I presume.

Kudos and congratulations.

Dave

> You also need the Verdana font files and the Scratch resources directory in order to do a build from sources.
>
> You can download a somewhat Pi-specific temporary package from
>
> (32 bit) https://mega.nz/file/eElm2SAQ#2Vk5_Z5oUf8G6kidi87Cv6d7HyG7QNXniWE60l2iSFU
> or
> (64 bit) https://mega.nz/file/mR0SGSwQ#gIX31V9YSCD9tcrgAGaVVaz5GyH2nU2_ixbW_9Ileb0
>
> Have fun - and if you find any bugs keep them to yourself, dammit, I need to spend some time on other things...
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Strange OpCodes: BPB: Branch on Program Bug
>
>
>

timrowledge

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

> On 2021-02-20, at 3:29 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I'd like to try NuScratch on my AMD Linux box, can you remind me what pango
> and/or cairo development libraries you installed for the UnicodePlugin? Some
> magic apt-get commands I presume.

On the Pi it looks like
sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev
should do it, though Subbu also suggested libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-glx instead of mesa-common-dev.

I'm not completely sure which choice is better; I had 'fun' with the directory naming clash for the glib includes, something that still needs a proper resolution

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Strange OpCodes: CRN: Compare to Random Number

David T. Lewis

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 04:24:18PM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:

>
>
> > On 2021-02-20, at 3:29 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to try NuScratch on my AMD Linux box, can you remind me what pango
> > and/or cairo development libraries you installed for the UnicodePlugin? Some
> > magic apt-get commands I presume.
>
> On the Pi it looks like
> sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev
> should do it, though Subbu also suggested libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-glx instead of mesa-common-dev.
>
> I'm not completely sure which choice is better; I had 'fun' with the directory naming clash for the glib includes, something that still needs a proper resolution
>

Thanks. I installed libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev which
now gives me a UnicodePlugin for the interpreter VM build, so I think
these are the necessary libraries. The Spur VM build is still excluding
the plugin due to something in the configure step. If I figure it out
I'll report back, probably not tonight though :-/

Dave

David T. Lewis

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 09:12:46PM -0500, David T. Lewis wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 04:24:18PM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
> >
> >
> > > On 2021-02-20, at 3:29 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd like to try NuScratch on my AMD Linux box, can you remind me what pango
> > > and/or cairo development libraries you installed for the UnicodePlugin? Some
> > > magic apt-get commands I presume.
> >
> > On the Pi it looks like
> > sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev
> > should do it, though Subbu also suggested libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-glx instead of mesa-common-dev.
> >
> > I'm not completely sure which choice is better; I had 'fun' with the directory naming clash for the glib includes, something that still needs a proper resolution
> >
>
> Thanks. I installed libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev which
> now gives me a UnicodePlugin for the interpreter VM build, so I think
> these are the necessary libraries. The Spur VM build is still excluding
> the plugin due to something in the configure step. If I figure it out
> I'll report back, probably not tonight though :-/
>
> Dave
>

I think there must be something about hitting <send> on an email that
causes problems to magically solve themselves.

I just copied the UnicodePlugin from my interpreter VM build into the
Spur VM folder, and now NuScratch is running on my amd64 Linux PC.

I'll worry about the configure issues some other day, right now I'm
happy to confirm that NuScratch is running on my PC :-)

Dave

Eliot Miranda-2

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

Hi Holger,

if you have time and inclination I (we) would very much appreciate you taking a look at the autoconf issue that is preventing the Unicode plug-in from being built in the ARM64 build on Linux Raspberry Pi (build.linux64ARMv8 IIRC).

Cheers!

_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)

> On Feb 20, 2021, at 6:32 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 09:12:46PM -0500, David T. Lewis wrote:
>>> On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 04:24:18PM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2021-02-20, at 3:29 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to try NuScratch on my AMD Linux box, can you remind me what pango
>>>> and/or cairo development libraries you installed for the UnicodePlugin? Some
>>>> magic apt-get commands I presume.
>>>
>>> On the Pi it looks like
>>> sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev
>>> should do it, though Subbu also suggested libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-glx instead of mesa-common-dev.
>>>
>>> I'm not completely sure which choice is better; I had 'fun' with the directory naming clash for the glib includes, something that still needs a proper resolution
>>>
>>
>> Thanks. I installed libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev which
>> now gives me a UnicodePlugin for the interpreter VM build, so I think
>> these are the necessary libraries. The Spur VM build is still excluding
>> the plugin due to something in the configure step. If I figure it out
>> I'll report back, probably not tonight though :-/
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> I think there must be something about hitting <send> on an email that
> causes problems to magically solve themselves.
>
> I just copied the UnicodePlugin from my interpreter VM build into the
> Spur VM folder, and now NuScratch is running on my amd64 Linux PC.
>
> I'll worry about the configure issues some other day, right now I'm
> happy to confirm that NuScratch is running on my PC :-)
>
> Dave
>

K K Subbu

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

In reply to this post by timrowledge

On 21/02/21 5:54 am, tim Rowledge wrote:
> On the Pi it looks like
> sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev mesa-common-dev
> should do it, though Subbu also suggested libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-glx instead of mesa-common-dev.

mesa-common-dev and libgl1-mesa-glx (runtime) are internal dependencies
of libgl1-mesa-dev:

~$ apt-cache depends libgl1-mesa-dev | grep mesa-
libgl1-mesa-dev
Depends: mesa-common-dev
Depends: libgl1-mesa-glx

It may be better to stick to top level libraries:

$ sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev libgl1-mesa-dev

HTH .. Subbu

timrowledge

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

> On 2021-02-21, at 9:56 PM, K K Subbu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> It may be better to stick to top level libraries:
>
> $ sudo apt-get install libcairo2-dev libpango1.0-dev libgl1-mesa-dev

Thanks; duly noted for next time I set up a Pi.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Hackers have kernel knowledge.

stes

Re: NuScratch for Squeak 5.3 - and now in exciting 64 bit flavour!

In reply to this post by timrowledge

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> You do need the UnicodePlugin available for things to run cleanly.
> This isn't routinely built, I think.
> You also need the Verdana font files
> and the Scratch resources directory in order to do a build from sources.

At GNOME they have a beautiful script gallery :

https://pango.gnome.org/ScriptGallery

I wonder whether the plugin could be called PangoUnicodePlugin
or GnomeUnicodePlugin instead of just UnicodePlugin.

David Stes

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