Opengl and Squeak

> On 17 August 2012 08:51, dimitris chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Well if FFI works okish in squeak I dont have a need for nativeboost, since
>> I prefer to code in smalltalk than assembly.
>>
> You don't have to learn assembly to use OpenGL with Nativeboost.
> Also, replying to previous post, it supports all 3 major platforms -
> mac, unix and windows.
>
> As for making NB working on Squeak, except from VM there's only one
> significant change
> made in Pharo but not in Squeak (afaik) is to improve the debugger
> support for custom primitives.

>
>> I decided to continue my project 'Ephestos' is squeak, since Blender python
>> has been a complete failure, the opengl implementation is buggy , still
>> stuck to version 1.1 and it consumes CPU cycles like crazy (simple hand
>> morph system  consume 50% of my dual core) so fingers crossed it will works
>> with squeak. I dont care for fancy features like nativevboost if its buggy,
>> non cross platform and slow.
>>
>> Seems I am not getting replies from other than you lawson , I assume
>> something is wrong with my squeak-dev subscription.
>>
>> Anyway, will test FFI from CroquetGL and hopefully it will work for me
>> too.Thanks for the help.
>> ________________________________
>> From: Lawson English <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012, 23:07
>>
>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Opengl and Squeak
>>
>> thanks Hans-Martin. I'll update my videos with that bit of info too.
>>
>> I have been playing quite a bit with NativeBoost lately and it offers some
>> very nice features that anyone wanting to make a game or other realtime-ish
>> application will find beneficial, including the ability to create a
>> "cascade" of foreign file calls within a single method, or even program a
>> bit of custom x86 assembler. I don't know what will be involved to port it
>> to Squeak, but Igor's talk suggests that the only "special" bit is already
>> present in the VM, which should work with either Pharo or Squeak. The rest
>> is just glue code at the Smalltalk level, which means that it is perfectly
>> doable to get it working on Squeak, in theory at least.
>>
>> Native boost also offers a way of passing an arbitrary  ByteArray to an
>> external function as though it were a normal pointer to a bit of malloc-ed
>> memory, which can be VERY useful with certain libraries, that and the
>> ability to actually malloc memory for a ByteArray from the OS level heap,
>> opens up all sorts of possibilities like having an external lib render
>> directly into a BitMap object asynchronously from its own OS level thread so
>> that each update can show the library's progress in a morph without any
>> further coding.
>>
>> I'm actually working on a simple MandelBrot Set generator lib in C to demo
>> this.
>>
>> L.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/16/12 12:38 PM, Hans-Martin Mosner wrote:
>>> The Squeak OpenGL bindings are on squeaksource.com. Here is an older mail
>>> exchange describing the installation procedure:
>>> http://forum.world.st/OpenGL-in-4-1-or-later-td3794639.html I have just
>>> tried it in a 4.3 image, and after fixing three small glitches it worked: -
>>> somehow the method OGLUnix>>#openGLLibraryName has an illegal character at
>>> the end (it's probably being handled as whitespace in other Squeak/Pharo
>>> images) - the method Point>>#area does not exist. I implemented it as
>>> returning x*y, which works. - the method printShowingMaxDecimalPlaces: does
>>> not exist. I used printString instead. That should get you started. Cheers,
>>> Hans-Martin
>>
>>
>> -- Squeak from the very start (introduction to Squeak and Pharo Smalltalk
>> for the (almost) complete and compleate beginner).
>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6601A198DF14788D&feature=view_all
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko.
>
>

> On Sat, 18 Aug 2012, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>
>> On 17 August 2012 08:51, dimitris chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well if FFI works okish in squeak I dont have a need for nativeboost,
>>> since
>>> I prefer to code in smalltalk than assembly.
>>>
>> You don't have to learn assembly to use OpenGL with Nativeboost.
>> Also, replying to previous post, it supports all 3 major platforms -
>> mac, unix and windows.
>>
>> As for making NB working on Squeak, except from VM there's only one
>> significant change
>> made in Pharo but not in Squeak (afaik) is to improve the debugger
>> support for custom primitives.
>
>
> Can you give us some pointers where to look for these changes?
>
>

> Levente
>
>>
>>> I decided to continue my project 'Ephestos' is squeak, since Blender
>>> python
>>> has been a complete failure, the opengl implementation is buggy , still
>>> stuck to version 1.1 and it consumes CPU cycles like crazy (simple hand
>>> morph system  consume 50% of my dual core) so fingers crossed it will
>>> works
>>> with squeak. I dont care for fancy features like nativevboost if its
>>> buggy,
>>> non cross platform and slow.
>>>
>>> Seems I am not getting replies from other than you lawson , I assume
>>> something is wrong with my squeak-dev subscription.
>>>
>>> Anyway, will test FFI from CroquetGL and hopefully it will work for me
>>> too.Thanks for the help.
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Lawson English <[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012, 23:07
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Opengl and Squeak
>>>
>>> thanks Hans-Martin. I'll update my videos with that bit of info too.
>>>
>>> I have been playing quite a bit with NativeBoost lately and it offers
>>> some
>>> very nice features that anyone wanting to make a game or other
>>> realtime-ish
>>> application will find beneficial, including the ability to create a
>>> "cascade" of foreign file calls within a single method, or even program a
>>> bit of custom x86 assembler. I don't know what will be involved to port
>>> it
>>> to Squeak, but Igor's talk suggests that the only "special" bit is
>>> already
>>> present in the VM, which should work with either Pharo or Squeak. The
>>> rest
>>> is just glue code at the Smalltalk level, which means that it is
>>> perfectly
>>> doable to get it working on Squeak, in theory at least.
>>>
>>> Native boost also offers a way of passing an arbitrary  ByteArray to an
>>> external function as though it were a normal pointer to a bit of
>>> malloc-ed
>>> memory, which can be VERY useful with certain libraries, that and the
>>> ability to actually malloc memory for a ByteArray from the OS level heap,
>>> opens up all sorts of possibilities like having an external lib render
>>> directly into a BitMap object asynchronously from its own OS level thread
>>> so
>>> that each update can show the library's progress in a morph without any
>>> further coding.
>>>
>>> I'm actually working on a simple MandelBrot Set generator lib in C to
>>> demo
>>> this.
>>>
>>> L.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/16/12 12:38 PM, Hans-Martin Mosner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Squeak OpenGL bindings are on squeaksource.com. Here is an older
>>>> mail
>>>> exchange describing the installation procedure:
>>>> http://forum.world.st/OpenGL-in-4-1-or-later-td3794639.html I have just
>>>> tried it in a 4.3 image, and after fixing three small glitches it
>>>> worked: -
>>>> somehow the method OGLUnix>>#openGLLibraryName has an illegal character
>>>> at
>>>> the end (it's probably being handled as whitespace in other Squeak/Pharo
>>>> images) - the method Point>>#area does not exist. I implemented it as
>>>> returning x*y, which works. - the method printShowingMaxDecimalPlaces:
>>>> does
>>>> not exist. I used printString instead. That should get you started.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Hans-Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Squeak from the very start (introduction to Squeak and Pharo Smalltalk
>>> for the (almost) complete and compleate beginner).
>>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6601A198DF14788D&feature=view_all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Igor Stasenko.
>>
>>
>

> On 21 August 2012 00:31, Levente Uzonyi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Aug 2012, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 August 2012 08:51, dimitris chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well if FFI works okish in squeak I dont have a need for nativeboost,
>>>> since
>>>> I prefer to code in smalltalk than assembly.
>>>>
>>> You don't have to learn assembly to use OpenGL with Nativeboost.
>>> Also, replying to previous post, it supports all 3 major platforms -
>>> mac, unix and windows.
>>>
>>> As for making NB working on Squeak, except from VM there's only one
>>> significant change
>>> made in Pharo but not in Squeak (afaik) is to improve the debugger
>>> support for custom primitives.
>>
>>
>> Can you give us some pointers where to look for these changes?
>>
>>
> Mainly it consists of two parts,
> originally started by Mariano and then somewhat polished by me..
> http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5459
> (Mariano, can you please give a link to the issue for your changes,
> because i don't remember it).
>
> Also for a full context, where everything is started from please google for
> "is there a way to avoid all the #tryNamedPrimitive:with: * in ProtoObject"
> topic in pharo mailing list.
>
>> Levente
>>
>>>
>>>> I decided to continue my project 'Ephestos' is squeak, since Blender
>>>> python
>>>> has been a complete failure, the opengl implementation is buggy , still
>>>> stuck to version 1.1 and it consumes CPU cycles like crazy (simple hand
>>>> morph system  consume 50% of my dual core) so fingers crossed it will
>>>> works
>>>> with squeak. I dont care for fancy features like nativevboost if its
>>>> buggy,
>>>> non cross platform and slow.
>>>>
>>>> Seems I am not getting replies from other than you lawson , I assume
>>>> something is wrong with my squeak-dev subscription.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, will test FFI from CroquetGL and hopefully it will work for me
>>>> too.Thanks for the help.
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Lawson English <[hidden email]>
>>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2012, 23:07
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Opengl and Squeak
>>>>
>>>> thanks Hans-Martin. I'll update my videos with that bit of info too.
>>>>
>>>> I have been playing quite a bit with NativeBoost lately and it offers
>>>> some
>>>> very nice features that anyone wanting to make a game or other
>>>> realtime-ish
>>>> application will find beneficial, including the ability to create a
>>>> "cascade" of foreign file calls within a single method, or even program a
>>>> bit of custom x86 assembler. I don't know what will be involved to port
>>>> it
>>>> to Squeak, but Igor's talk suggests that the only "special" bit is
>>>> already
>>>> present in the VM, which should work with either Pharo or Squeak. The
>>>> rest
>>>> is just glue code at the Smalltalk level, which means that it is
>>>> perfectly
>>>> doable to get it working on Squeak, in theory at least.
>>>>
>>>> Native boost also offers a way of passing an arbitrary  ByteArray to an
>>>> external function as though it were a normal pointer to a bit of
>>>> malloc-ed
>>>> memory, which can be VERY useful with certain libraries, that and the
>>>> ability to actually malloc memory for a ByteArray from the OS level heap,
>>>> opens up all sorts of possibilities like having an external lib render
>>>> directly into a BitMap object asynchronously from its own OS level thread
>>>> so
>>>> that each update can show the library's progress in a morph without any
>>>> further coding.
>>>>
>>>> I'm actually working on a simple MandelBrot Set generator lib in C to
>>>> demo
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> L.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/16/12 12:38 PM, Hans-Martin Mosner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The Squeak OpenGL bindings are on squeaksource.com. Here is an older
>>>>> mail
>>>>> exchange describing the installation procedure:
>>>>> http://forum.world.st/OpenGL-in-4-1-or-later-td3794639.html I have just
>>>>> tried it in a 4.3 image, and after fixing three small glitches it
>>>>> worked: -
>>>>> somehow the method OGLUnix>>#openGLLibraryName has an illegal character
>>>>> at
>>>>> the end (it's probably being handled as whitespace in other Squeak/Pharo
>>>>> images) - the method Point>>#area does not exist. I implemented it as
>>>>> returning x*y, which works. - the method printShowingMaxDecimalPlaces:
>>>>> does
>>>>> not exist. I used printString instead. That should get you started.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Hans-Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Squeak from the very start (introduction to Squeak and Pharo Smalltalk
>>>> for the (almost) complete and compleate beginner).
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6601A198DF14788D&feature=view_all
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Igor Stasenko.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko.

> On 20 August 2012 15:39, dimitris chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thank you I have downloaded that too and will study it. Since opengl and
>> opengl es are very close , it should not be hard to modify it for es.
>>
> Oh, yes and if you really want to know how it feels to code opengl
> with nativeboost,
> you can ask Erwan, who using NBOpenGL for his project.
>
> AFAIK, Erwan didn't had to learn assembly in order to use it :)
>

> On 8/20/12 4:17 PM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>> On 20 August 2012 15:39, dimitris chloupis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you I have downloaded that too and will study it. Since opengl and
>>> opengl es are very close , it should not be hard to modify it for es.
>>>
>> Oh, yes and if you really want to know how it feels to code opengl
>> with nativeboost,
>> you can ask Erwan, who using NBOpenGL for his project.
>>
>> AFAIK, Erwan didn't had to learn assembly in order to use it :)
>>
> One or two of my OpenGL squeak videos (the later ones) are done using
> NBOpenGL
>