Paying for projects

>    Hi all,
>
>    As you have probably seen, I see a lot of things I want to see done in
>    Smalltalk, but I don't have time to do any of it.  My "eyes are bigger
>    then my stomach" as it were.  So it occurred to me today that a possible
>    solution to this problem would be to simply pay to have some of the work
>    done.
>
>    So to that end, I would like anyone who would be interested to let me
>    know.  I will set up a mailing list for any people would want to be take
>    (or give) projects.  I will suggest my project on the list, you can answer
>    me privately (or publicly) with your bids.  I will select someone, and
>    publicly announce that it has been filled.  After that it depends; we can
>    talk publicly over the list, or use an intermediate like rentacoder [1] to
>    ensure that both sides are safe.  That is, I don't want to pay if I can't
>    use the finished product, nor do I want the person doing the work to fear
>    that they may get nothing for it.

>    We can negotiate the different things, time frames, price, features.  I
>    mostly only be doing smallish projects.  The payouts would probably be on
>    the order of $50 - $100 USD but the projects should be small (and often)
>    as well.  And if this catches on, there could be much bigger projects or
>    people may chip in to sweeten some of the more interesting pots.
>
>    Some people have expressed concerns about bounties in the past that people
>    might have their feelings hurt if they don't get picked.  So I would just
>    like to point out, this has nothing to do with the board or anything
>    else.  This is just something I wanted to do.  I will choose the person
>    the same way any worker is chosen for a given, i.e. the best
>    fit/price/availability/reputation.

>    The payout will work in the same way it's done on rentacoder:  We have a
>    bid off for who will do the job, negotiate the parameters and pick the
>    best overall fit, then you do the work, then when it's finished if I
>    accept you are paid.  If I don't accept you can try to bring it up to
>    spec, decide to give up, or ask for an arbitration if you think you have
>    met requirements.  In the case of the rentacoder site, the payment money
>    is deposited as soon as I accept a bidder so no one can "take their ball
>    and go home".
>
>    I'm a big experimenter so many of the projects may be that you get paid
>    and then never hear anything more (because I decide I don't want to go
>    that way after all).  But hopefully the money can soften that blow a
>    little. :)
>
>    And lastly, I know Squeak is largely a gift community, and I don't want to
>    upset that.  I think it is good that people give things to the community
>    (and I will most likely release everything I pay for).  I don't want to
>    create a situation where everyone expects to be paid for everything.  This
>    is simply a case that I have not managed to get anyone interested in my
>    ideas by talking, I can't realize them myself (this decade anyway), so my
>    last option is to pay.

>
>  Hi all,
>
> As you have probably seen, I see a lot of things I want to see done in
> Smalltalk, but I don't have time to do any of it.  My "eyes are bigger then
> my stomach" as it were.  So it occurred to me today that a possible solution
> to this problem would be to simply pay to have some of the work done.
>
> So to that end, I would like anyone who would be interested to let me know.
> I will set up a mailing list for any people would want to be take (or give)
> projects.  I will suggest my project on the list, you can answer me
> privately (or publicly) with your bids.  I will select someone, and publicly
> announce that it has been filled.  After that it depends; we can talk
> publicly over the list, or use an intermediate like rentacoder [1] to ensure
> that both sides are safe.  That is, I don't want to pay if I can't use the
> finished product, nor do I want the person doing the work to fear that they
> may get nothing for it.
>
> We can negotiate the different things, time frames, price, features.  I
> mostly only be doing smallish projects.  The payouts would probably be on
> the order of $50 - $100 USD but the projects should be small (and often) as
> well.  And if this catches on, there could be much bigger projects or people
> may chip in to sweeten some of the more interesting pots.
>
> Some people have expressed concerns about bounties in the past that people
> might have their feelings hurt if they don't get picked.  So I would just
> like to point out, this has nothing to do with the board or anything else.
> This is just something I wanted to do.  I will choose the person the same
> way any worker is chosen for a given, i.e. the best
> fit/price/availability/reputation.
>
> The payout will work in the same way it's done on rentacoder:  We have a bid
> off for who will do the job, negotiate the parameters and pick the best
> overall fit, then you do the work, then when it's finished if I accept you
> are paid.  If I don't accept you can try to bring it up to spec, decide to
> give up, or ask for an arbitration if you think you have met requirements.
> In the case of the rentacoder site, the payment money is deposited as soon
> as I accept a bidder so no one can "take their ball and go home".
>
> I'm a big experimenter so many of the projects may be that you get paid and
> then never hear anything more (because I decide I don't want to go that way
> after all).  But hopefully the money can soften that blow a little. :)
>
> And lastly, I know Squeak is largely a gift community, and I don't want to
> upset that.  I think it is good that people give things to the community
> (and I will most likely release everything I pay for).  I don't want to
> create a situation where everyone expects to be paid for everything.  This
> is simply a case that I have not managed to get anyone interested in my
> ideas by talking, I can't realize them myself (this decade anyway), so my
> last option is to pay.
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
>
> [1]  The advantage of using rentacoder as an intermediate is that it's
> established, and everyone will see the projects so it will be more smalltalk
> exposure.
>
> ________________________________
> Live Earth is coming.  Learn more about the hottest summer event - only on
> MSN. Check it out!
>
>
>

> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:37:05 +0200
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Paying for projects
>
> Hi,
>
> I think it's a good idea. Your project list might be of interest for
> everyone, so why not sending it to the main mailing list?
>
> Bye
>
> 2007/6/27, J J <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > As you have probably seen, I see a lot of things I want to see done in
> > Smalltalk, but I don't have time to do any of it. My "eyes are bigger then
> > my stomach" as it were. So it occurred to me today that a possible solution
> > to this problem would be to simply pay to have some of the work done.
> >
> > So to that end, I would like anyone who would be interested to let me know.
> > I will set up a mailing list for any people would want to be take (or give)
> > projects. I will suggest my project on the list, you can answer me
> > privately (or publicly) with your bids. I will select someone, and publicly
> > announce that it has been filled. After that it depends; we can talk
> > publicly over the list, or use an intermediate like rentacoder [1] to ensure
> > that both sides are safe. That is, I don't want to pay if I can't use the
> > finished product, nor do I want the person doing the work to fear that they
> > may get nothing for it.
> >
> > We can negotiate the different things, time frames, price, features. I
> > mostly only be doing smallish projects. The payouts would probably be on
> > the order of $50 - $100 USD but the projects should be small (and often) as
> > well. And if this catches on, there could be much bigger projects or people
> > may chip in to sweeten some of the more interesting pots.
> >
> > Some people have expressed concerns about bounties in the past that people
> > might have their feelings hurt if they don't get picked. So I would just
> > like to point out, this has nothing to do with the board or anything else.
> > This is just something I wanted to do. I will choose the person the same
> > way any worker is chosen for a given, i.e. the best
> > fit/price/availability/reputation.
> >
> > The payout will work in the same way it's done on rentacoder: We have a bid
> > off for who will do the job, negotiate the parameters and pick the best
> > overall fit, then you do the work, then when it's finished if I accept you
> > are paid. If I don't accept you can try to bring it up to spec, decide to
> > give up, or ask for an arbitration if you think you have met requirements.
> > In the case of the rentacoder site, the payment money is deposited as soon
> > as I accept a bidder so no one can "take their ball and go home".
> >
> > I'm a big experimenter so many of the projects may be that you get paid and
> > then never hear anything more (because I decide I don't want to go that way
> > after all). But hopefully the money can soften that blow a little. :)
> >
> > And lastly, I know Squeak is largely a gift community, and I don't want to
> > upset that. I think it is good that people give things to the community
> > (and I will most likely release everything I pay for). I don't want to
> > create a situation where everyone expects to be paid for everything. This
> > is simply a case that I have not managed to get anyone interested in my
> > ideas by talking, I can't realize them myself (this decade anyway), so my
> > last option is to pay.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jason
> >
> > [1] The advantage of using rentacoder as an intermediate is that it's
> > established, and everyone will see the projects so it will be more smalltalk
> > exposure.
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Live Earth is coming. Learn more about the hottest summer event - only on
> > MSN. Check it out!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Damien Cassou
>

> Hello Jason,
>
> JJ> 2) I don't want input about the value of the project from
> JJ> people who have no intention of doing the work or paying to get
> JJ> work done.  If you think my project ideas are crap, fine, but I
> JJ> don't want my list to get weighted down with that kind of stuff. 
> JJ> I am making things I want to use, if no one else in the world
> JJ> would want it, that's fine.
>
> I believe Squeak will benefit from such a mechanism. And I think your
> argument (2) is very valid in a more general sense too.
>
> What about a moderated list for this purpose? Personally I can live with
> your list and you firing anybody who misuses the list :-))

> Hi all,
>
> As you have probably seen, I see a lot of things I want to see done  
> in Smalltalk, but I don't have time to do any of it.  My "eyes are  
> bigger then my stomach" as it were.  So it occurred to me today  
> that a possible solution to this problem would be to simply pay to  
> have some of the work done.
>
> So to that end, I would like anyone who would be interested to let  
> me know.  I will set up a mailing list for any people would want to  
> be take (or give) projects.  I will suggest my project on the list,  
> you can answer me privately (or publicly) with your bids.  I will  
> select someone, and publicly announce that it has been filled.  
> After that it depends; we can talk publicly over the list, or use  
> an intermediate like rentacoder [1] to ensure that both sides are  
> safe.  That is, I don't want to pay if I can't use the finished  
> product, nor do I want the person doing the work to fear that they  
> may get nothing for it.
>
> We can negotiate the different things, time frames, price,  
> features.  I mostly only be doing smallish projects.  The payouts  
> would probably be on the order of $50 - $100 USD but the projects  
> should be small (and often) as well.  And if this catches on, there  
> could be much bigger projects or people may chip in to sweeten some  
> of the more interesting pots.
>
> Some people have expressed concerns about bounties in the past that  
> people might have their feelings hurt if they don't get picked.  So  
> I would just like to point out, this has nothing to do with the  
> board or anything else.  This is just something I wanted to do.  I  
> will choose the person the same way any worker is chosen for a  
> given, i.e. the best fit/price/availability/reputation.
>
> The payout will work in the same way it's done on rentacoder:  We  
> have a bid off for who will do the job, negotiate the parameters  
> and pick the best overall fit, then you do the work, then when it's  
> finished if I accept you are paid.  If I don't accept you can try  
> to bring it up to spec, decide to give up, or ask for an  
> arbitration if you think you have met requirements.  In the case of  
> the rentacoder site, the payment money is deposited as soon as I  
> accept a bidder so no one can "take their ball and go home".
>
> I'm a big experimenter so many of the projects may be that you get  
> paid and then never hear anything more (because I decide I don't  
> want to go that way after all).  But hopefully the money can soften  
> that blow a little. :)
>
> And lastly, I know Squeak is largely a gift community, and I don't  
> want to upset that.  I think it is good that people give things to  
> the community (and I will most likely release everything I pay  
> for).  I don't want to create a situation where everyone expects to  
> be paid for everything.  This is simply a case that I have not  
> managed to get anyone interested in my ideas by talking, I can't  
> realize them myself (this decade anyway), so my last option is to pay.
>
> Thanks,
> Jason
>
> [1]  The advantage of using rentacoder as an intermediate is that  
> it's established, and everyone will see the projects so it will be  
> more smalltalk exposure.
>
> Live Earth is coming.  Learn more about the hottest summer event -  
> only on MSN. Check it out!
>

> On Thu June 28 2007 10:22 am, Ken Causey wrote:
> > I'm also interested.  At least to the extent that I would be interested
> > in seeing a list of projects.  I agree with Matthew that I think you
> > would best start by simply publishing such a list to the largest
> > community, which is represented by this mailing list.  Then simply
> > specify your preferred method for bidding, etc.
> >
> > Ken
>
>