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Thomas, Arden

Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Randy Coulman

Re: Personal Use License

Can you post the license text here for us to review without having to do a full download?

Thanks,

Randy

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Thomas, Arden

Re: Personal Use License

Hi Randy,

Sure:

http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/main/ip/downloadtandc.html

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Randy Coulman wrote:

Can you post the license text here for us to review without having to do a full download?

Thanks,
Randy

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Henrik Høyer

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Thomas, Arden

Hi Arden

I am glad to see Cincom trying to attract new users. I have just downloaded ObjectStudio and in the mail there was a link inviting me to visit the blog for the product….

This blog has not been updated for more than a year, not the best way to greet new users L

I continues to look at your website, and found the: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/main/developer-community/smalltalk-blogs/ page hoping for some good information on ObjectStudio. But most of these blogs are dead as well, some are 404, some are just not updated, and one of them has been hijacked and is only displaying adds L

I’ve downloaded both OS and VW and will have a look at them, hopefully they are more up-to-date than your website.

	Henrik Høyer
	Chief Software Architect
	[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
	Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
	www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 28. september 2011 16:33
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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jarober

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Randy Coulman

CINCOM SYSTEMS, INC.
SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT
FOR CINCOM SMALLTALK PERSONAL USE

IMPORTANT NOTICE: READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE PROCEEDING TO USE THIS COMPUTER SOFTWARE AND THE ACCOMPANYING USER DOCUMENTATION (THE "PRODUCT"). THE PRODUCT IS COPYRIGHTED AND ITS USE IS LICENSED (NOT SOLD). BY DOWNLOADING AND/OR INSTALLING THE PRODUCT ON A COMPUTER AND USING THE PRODUCT, YOU ARE ACCEPTING AND AGREEING TO THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT. IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT, YOU SHOULD NOT DOWNLOAD OR, USE THE PRODUCT AND PROMPTLY DELETE, DESTROY OR RETURN THE PRODUCT. THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT REPRESENTS THE ENTIRE AGREEMENT CONCERNING THE PRODUCT BETWEEN YOU AND CINCOM SYSTEMS, INC. (REFERRED TO HEREIN AS "LICENSOR"), AND THIS AGREEMENT SUPERSEDES ANY PRIOR PROPOSALS, REPRESENTATIONS, OR UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE PARTIES PERTAINING TO THE PRODUCTS GOVERENED UNDER THIS LICENSE AGREEMENT.

1. License Grant. Licensor hereby grants to you, the individual, and you do hereby accept, a nonexclusive and nontransferable license to use the Product only as is authorized in this License Agreement. The Product may be used or accessed by only you only at a single location on computers owned, leased or otherwise controlled by you in the manner and subject to the terms set forth in this License Agreement. You agree that you will not, assign, sublicense, transfer, pledge, lease, rent, allow access to or share your rights under this License Agreement. You agree that your rights under this License Agreement does not cover the use of the Products for any revenue generating purpose or operation of any business venture and are not to pass to a successor through merger or consolidation. You agree that you may not reverse assemble, reverse compile, reverse engineer or otherwise translate the Product. You agree that you receive no rights other than those expressly granted to you in this License Agreement

You may make one copy of the Product for the purpose of backup in the event the Product is damaged or destroyed. Any such copies of the Product shall include Licensor's copyright and other proprietary notices. Except as authorized under this paragraph, no copies of the Product or any portions thereof may be made by you or any person under your authority or control.

U.S. Government Restricted Rights: Licensor provides the Product with RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication, or disclosure by the U.S. Government or any agency or instrumentality thereof is subject to restrictions set forth in subparagraphs (c) (1) and (2) of the Commercial Computer Software - Restricted Rights clause at 48 C.F.R. 52.227-19, or any successor provision, as applicable. The Contractor/Manufacturer is Cincom Systems, Inc., 55 Merchant Street, Cincinnati, Ohio 45246.

2. Licensor's Rights. You acknowledge and agree that the Product is a proprietary product of Licensor protected under U.S. copyright law and international treaty provisions. You further acknowledge and agree that all right, title, and interest in and to the Product, including associated intellectual property rights, are and shall remain with Licensor. This License Agreement does not convey to you an interest in or to the Product, but only a limited right of use revocable in accordance with the terms of this License Agreement.

3. License Fees. This license is granted to you for your personal use only. Therefore, no license fees are involved, unless you breach the terms and conditions of this Agreement. Upon any such breach you shall pay Licensor any and all applicable damages relating to the breach, including, but not limited to the applicable license fees for the Product for your nonconforming use.

4. Term. This License Agreement is effective upon delivery of the Product to you and will remain in effect until terminated. You may terminate this License Agreement at any time. Licensor may terminate this License Agreement upon your breach of any term hereof. Upon termination by Licensor, you agree to discontinue usage and return or destroy all copies and portions of the Product.

5. Limited Warranty. THE PRODUCT IS LICENSED "AS IS," AND LICENSOR DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

6. Limitation of Liability. Licensor's cumulative liability to you or any other party for any loss or damages resulting from any claims, demands, or actions arising out of or relating to this Agreement will not exceed the total amount paid by you to Licensor. In no event shall Licensor be liable for any indirect, incidental, consequential, special, or exemplary damages or lost profits, even if Licensor has been advised of the possibility of such damages. THE ABOVE LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION MAY NOT BE ALLOWED BY ALL JURISDICTIONS.

7. Trademark. The trademarks and copyrights listed in this License Agreement, on the Product, or related documentation are trademarks and copyrights of Licensor. No right, license, or interest to such trademarks and copyrights is granted hereunder, and you agree that no such right, license, or interest shall be asserted by you with respect to such trademarks and copyrights.

8. Governing Law. This License Agreement shall be construed and governed in accordance with the laws of the State of Ohio.

9. Costs of Litigation. If any action is brought by either party to this License Agreement against the other party regarding the subject matter hereof, the prevailing party shall be entitled to recover, in addition to any other relief granted, reasonable attorney fees and expenses of litigation.

10. Severability. Should any term of this License Agreement be declared void or unenforceable by any court of competent jurisdiction, such declaration shall have no effect on the remaining terms hereof.

11. No Waiver. The failure of either party to enforce any rights granted hereunder or to take action against the other party in the event of any breach hereunder shall not be deemed a waiver by that party as to subsequent enforcement of such or any other such rights or any subsequent actions in the event of future breaches.

12. Export. Licensee shall ensure that neither the Cincom Products, commodities, technology, or software, nor any direct product thereof are exported, directly or indirectly, in violation of the export laws and regulations of the United States of America including the Export Administration Regulations. Diversion contrary to U.S. law is prohibited.

If you have any questions about this License Agreement, or if you have any questions or comments about the Product, please contact your local Cincom sales office.

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Randy Coulman wrote:

Can you post the license text here for us to review without having to do a full download?

Thanks,
Randy

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
Regards
Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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James Robertson

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Reinout Heeck-2

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Thomas, Arden

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.

Thanks for the heads-up.

I read the license and it feel like it is written by people who bill you without caring a bit about the quality of what they deliver.

It is so vague and unrelated to the VW development end deployment process that it leaves plenty of questions, here are a couple:

The license defines 'the product' being 'this computer software and the accompanying documentation', it further stipulates that 'The Product may be used or accessed by only you only at a single location' and 'You may make one copy of the Product for the purpose of backup'.

I run a WikiWorks server publicly available on the internet on a non-commercial VW installation.

If I upgrade that wiki server to the latest NC VW then
1) am I allowed to make this wiki publicly accessible? ('used or accessed by only you')
2) am I allowed to let others administrate the wiki installation? ('accessed only by you')

3) If I prepare the WikiWorks upgrade on my desktop at home and upload it to my personal server sitting elsewhere in the rack of my employer do I need a separate license for that? ('only at a single location').

4) If I make backups of development images with with my code in it am I supposed to remove older backups? ('You may make one copy of the Product for the purpose of backup').

5) Am I allowed to have multiple development images at all? ('You may make one copy of the Product for the purpose of backup')

In the license the word 'install' is used only once without making clear whether that is a copy or not, no mention of copying the base image for development and such.

This reads as a CYA paper, at the receiving end that only scares people.

There is one thing obviously good about this license: it is short enough to read and comprehend - something rarely seen nowadays.

R
-

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Thomas, Arden

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Thomas, Arden

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
Regards
Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
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Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Henrik Høyer

Re: Personal Use License

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

	Henrik Høyer
	Chief Software Architect
	[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
	Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
	www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
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Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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giorgiof

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Thomas, Arden

Hi, Arden,

looking at what are the doubts expressed by the community, I don't think that the extra lines aded will be able to clear up the water (or is just my poor english?).

There are most of the Reinout's question difficult to answer, and this one, that I think is the big one:

1)It is still possible to develop open source free software as before (BottomFeeder will never be possible again, for example?)

ciao

Giorgio

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

Re: Personal Use License

I agree, even the name ‘non-commercial’ used to mean ‘you can use it whichever way you like so long as you don’t make any money off it and when you do, you need to change to commercial license’. The concept of ‘personal’ appears to be a lot more restrictive and everyone knows just how much our community needs to restrict access to people who might want to give it a try. I hope we can get a clearer explanation of the licenses available for current versions of VisualWorks in a terse bullet form.

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of giorgio ferraris
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:31 AM
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi, Arden,

looking at what are the doubts expressed by the community, I don't think that the extra lines aded will be able to clear up the water (or is just my poor english?).

There are most of the Reinout's question difficult to answer, and this one, that I think is the big one:

1)It is still possible to develop open source free software as before (BottomFeeder will never be possible again, for example?)

ciao

Giorgio

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
Regards
Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
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Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Carl Gundel-2

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by giorgiof

It might make sense to add a specific clause for open source projects.

I don't see how preventing open source projects in Cincom Smalltalk protects Cincom at all. On the contrary it could drive many people away from using it.

-Carl Gundel

Liberty BASIC for Windows - http://www.libertybasic.com

Run BASIC, easy web programming - http://www.runbasic.com

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:31 AM, giorgio ferraris <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, Arden,

looking at what are the doubts expressed by the community, I don't think that the extra lines aded will be able to clear up the water (or is just my poor english?).
There are most of the Reinout's question difficult to answer, and this one, that I think is the big one:

1)It is still possible to develop open source free software as before (BottomFeeder will never be possible again, for example?)

ciao

Giorgio

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
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Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Isaac Gouy

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

>From: "Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs" <[hidden email]>
>To: giorgio ferraris <[hidden email]>; Arden Thomas <[hidden email]>
>Cc: [hidden email]
>Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 7:39 AM
>Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License
>
>
> I agree, even the name ‘non-commercial’ used to mean ‘you can use it whichever way
> you like so long as you don’t make any money off it and when you do, you need to change
> to commercial license’. The concept of ‘personal’ appears to be a lot more restrictive

> and everyone knows just how much our community needs to restrict access to people who

> might want to give it a try. I hope we can get a clearer explanation of the licenses available
> for current versions of VisualWorks in a terse bullet form.

+1

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Thomas, Arden

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Henrik Høyer

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

Regards

Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png> Henrik Høyer
Chief Software Architect
[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

                      Arden Thomas
                      Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
                           Regards
                           Arden Thomas
                           Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

Re: Personal Use License

Arden,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but why can’t we all get an explanation in layman’s terms as to what the new license allows and how it is different from the previous non-commercial license?

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:01 AM
To: Henrik Høyer
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

Regards

Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png>	Henrik Høyer
	Chief Software Architect
	[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
	Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
	www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

jarober

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs wrote:

I agree, even the name ‘non-commercial’ used to mean ‘you can use it whichever way you like so long as you don’t make any money off it and when you do, you need to change to commercial license’. The concept of ‘personal’ appears to be a lot more restrictive and everyone knows just how much our community needs to restrict access to people who might want to give it a try. I hope we can get a clearer explanation of the licenses available for current versions of VisualWorks in a terse bullet form.

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of giorgio ferraris
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:31 AM
To: Arden Thomas
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi, Arden,

looking at what are the doubts expressed by the community, I don't think that the extra lines aded will be able to clear up the water (or is just my poor english?).
There are most of the Reinout's question difficult to answer, and this one, that I think is the big one:
1)It is still possible to develop open source free software as before (BottomFeeder will never be possible again, for example?)

ciao

Giorgio
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Arden Thomas <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
Regards
Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

James Robertson

http://www.jarober.com

[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Henrik Høyer

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Thomas, Arden

Sorry, I don’t want to have any special/personal deal with Cincom. If you cannot say in public what kind of license agreements you are willing to offer, then I guess you have just yourself another potential customer

Henrik Høyer, sPeople Aps

[hidden email]

(+45) 4029 2092

From: Arden Thomas [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 17:01
To: Henrik Høyer
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

Regards

Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png>	Henrik Høyer
	Chief Software Architect
	[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
	Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
	www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

jarober

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:03 AM, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs wrote:

Arden,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but why can’t we all get an explanation in layman’s terms as to what the new license allows and how it is different from the previous non-commercial license?

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:01 AM
To: Henrik Høyer
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

            Regards

            Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png>
Henrik Høyer
Chief Software Architect
[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

                      Arden Thomas
                      Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
                           Regards
                           Arden Thomas
                           Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

James Robertson

http://www.jarober.com

[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Thomas, Arden

Re: Personal Use License

In reply to this post by Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs (SNN)

Hi Boris;

The idea of the Personal use license was to be simple and straightforward; I guess that is difficult anytime a license is involved, as you could always ask "what if". :-)

The NC license also had plenty of "what ifs" too. For example if you used VisualWorks to run a non-profit business, that is a commercial use, not non-commercial just because there is no profit.

Our intent is to protect our commercial business (which employs a lot of Smalltalkers BTW) while allowing and encouraging learning, experimentation, personal use applications, and a vibrant community. We do no want to discourage anyone from building a CST application that manages and tracks their children's soccer team for example. We encourage it. Now if you decide to sell that application, you need a different license. Somewhere gray in-between? Talk to us.

IANAL so I will not attempt to address differences between the licenses.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:03 AM, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs wrote:

Arden,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but why can’t we all get an explanation in layman’s terms as to what the new license allows and how it is different from the previous non-commercial license?

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:01 AM
To: Henrik Høyer
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

            Regards

            Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png>
Henrik Høyer
Chief Software Architect
[hidden email] • (+45) 4029 2092
Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge
www.sPeople.dk • (+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

                      Arden Thomas
                      Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
                           Regards
                           Arden Thomas
                           Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Thomas Sattler

Re: Personal Use License

Arden,

If I want to start a web site that I *hope* eventually will become revenue generating, I would like to develop it and roll it out without having to pay Cincom (since I have no revenues with which to pay). Once I get some revenues, I can convert it to a commercial license. But it sounds like this is not possible any more. Can you provide a "yes" or "no" answer on whether this would be permitted?

And how does making licenses more restrictive "protect" anyone?

--Tom

2011/10/13 Arden Thomas <[hidden email]>

Hi Boris;

The idea of the Personal use license was to be simple and straightforward; I guess that is difficult anytime a license is involved, as you could always ask "what if". :-)

The NC license also had plenty of "what ifs" too. For example if you used VisualWorks to run a non-profit business, that is a commercial use, not non-commercial just because there is no profit.

Our intent is to protect our commercial business (which employs a lot of Smalltalkers BTW) while allowing and encouraging learning, experimentation, personal use applications, and a vibrant community. We do no want to discourage anyone from building a CST application that manages and tracks their children's soccer team for example. We encourage it. Now if you decide to sell that application, you need a different license. Somewhere gray in-between? Talk to us.

IANAL so I will not attempt to address differences between the licenses.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

  Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:03 AM, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs wrote:

Arden,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but why can’t we all get an explanation in layman’s terms as to what the new license allows and how it is different from the previous non-commercial license?

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:01 AM
To: Henrik Høyer
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

            Regards

            Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png>

Henrik Høyer

Chief Software Architect

[hidden email] • <a href="tel:%28%2B45%29%204029%202092" value="+4540292092" target="_blank">(+45) 4029 2092

Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge

www.sPeople.dk • <a href="tel:%28%2B45%29%207023%207775" value="+4570237775" target="_blank">(+45) 7023 7775

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

                      Arden Thomas

                      Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.

We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.

The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.

                           Regards

                           Arden Thomas

                           Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]

<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

_______________________________________________
vwnc mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vwnc

Thomas, Arden

Re: Personal Use License

Hi Thomas;

I'm not sure I agree with your notion that anything has changed in respect to your scenario. NC did not allow you to make money from commercial use.

At the time of your first sale, you would need to have a valid license to do so. So pragmatically I'm not sure there is any difference there.

A point to make: It is in our interest to see you be successful using our software.

We make our commercial software available, free of charge, to learn, experiment with, and for personal use. I think this is a win-win.

This makes it less risky for you to approach a commercial endeavor, to use as a hobby, or just to be knowledgeable in Smalltalk for employment.

If there are special circumstances, please let us know. It is in our interest to see you be successful using our software.

Regards

Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:33 AM, Thomas Sattler wrote:

Arden,

If I want to start a web site that I *hope* eventually will become revenue generating, I would like to develop it and roll it out without having to pay Cincom (since I have no revenues with which to pay). Once I get some revenues, I can convert it to a commercial license. But it sounds like this is not possible any more. Can you provide a "yes" or "no" answer on whether this would be permitted?

And how does making licenses more restrictive "protect" anyone?

--Tom

2011/10/13 Arden Thomas <[hidden email]>

Hi Boris;

The idea of the Personal use license was to be simple and straightforward; I guess that is difficult anytime a license is involved, as you could always ask "what if". :-)

The NC license also had plenty of "what ifs" too. For example if you used VisualWorks to run a non-profit business, that is a commercial use, not non-commercial just because there is no profit.

Our intent is to protect our commercial business (which employs a lot of Smalltalkers BTW) while allowing and encouraging learning, experimentation, personal use applications, and a vibrant community. We do no want to discourage anyone from building a CST application that manages and tracks their children's soccer team for example. We encourage it. Now if you decide to sell that application, you need a different license. Somewhere gray in-between? Talk to us.

IANAL so I will not attempt to address differences between the licenses.

hth

Regards

Arden Thomas

  Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

On Oct 13, 2011, at 11:03 AM, Boris Popov, DeepCove Labs wrote:

Arden,

Don’t take this the wrong way, but why can’t we all get an explanation in layman’s terms as to what the new license allows and how it is different from the previous non-commercial license?

-Boris

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:01 AM
To: Henrik Høyer
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Hi Henrik;

If you download the new software, you are using the new personal use license.

If you feel there is an issue with the new license for your usage, please contact us privately.

            Regards

            Arden Thomas

On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:

If I a VWNC license today, am I required to convert this to this new license?

<speoplelogo.png>

Henrik Høyer

Chief Software Architect

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Tigervej 27 • 4600 Køge

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From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Arden Thomas
Sent: 13. oktober 2011 15:38
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [vwnc] Personal Use License

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;

We have had a few questions about the new personal use license, and are adding the statement below to our download page to help clarify the intent.

The intent of this license is to promote the learning and usage of Smalltalk by enthusiasts for their own personal use and experimentation.

If you are unsure, or have any questions about how you would like to use it, please send me an email or ask an account representative. It never hurts to ask.

hth

Regards

                      Arden Thomas

                      Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

"The Personal Use License is intended for usage by individuals of Cincom Smalltalk software for their own private access and use. Any other type of usage or any uncertainty regarding the applicability of the Personal Use license to specific usage, should be referred to your local Cincom representative for appropriate licensing"

On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:32 AM, Arden Thomas wrote:

Dear Cincom Smalltalk Community;
Please note that starting today, the download versions of ObjectStudio and VisualWorks have a new license; the “Personal Use” license.
We feel this license will be favorable to the current Evaluation license, and it better fits the needs of the community, contributors, and citizen developers using Cincom Smalltalk products. It makes it easy for someone to learn and become familiar with our technology.
The Cincom Smalltalk Community is important to Cincom, and we are pleased to let you know of this change to better support our community.
                           Regards
                           Arden Thomas
                           Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

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Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

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Arden Thomas

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Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]

<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

Arden Thomas
Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager
[hidden email]
<a href="tel:845%20296%200686" value="+18452960686" target="_blank">845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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Arden Thomas

Cincom Smalltalk Product Manager

[hidden email]

845 296 0686

Cincom Smalltalk - It makes hard things easier, the impossible, possible

"Simplicity is the Ultimate Sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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