Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Previous Topic Next Topic
 
classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
80 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen



Hi, I reverted to 5.0 because Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit hangs on 
my Mac Mini with UDH 4K screen (may that has to do with?)
with its maiden image (at first start after download
when:  I resize or go to full screen. Maybe VM problem?
my mac Mini metrics:
Hardware Overview:

  Model Name: Mac mini
  Model Identifier: Macmini6,2
  Processor Name: Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed: 2,6 GHz
  Number of Processors: 1
  Total Number of Cores: 4
  L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
  L3 Cache: 6 MB
  Memory: 4 GB
  Boot ROM Version: MM61.0106.B1F
  SMC Version (system): 2.8f0

maybe this problem was already reported, but could find it. 


Kind Regards
TedvG
 
   

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
I've just installed the 32bit version. same problems here. freezes
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Stephan Eggermont-3
On 31-07-17 16:42, TedVanGaalen wrote:
> I've just installed the 32bit version. same problems here. freezes

Where did you install what versions of vm and image on what OS X version?

Stephan


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Guillermo Polito
Also, 
- How did you install pharo? Command line and zero conf? Website download link?
- What does it mean to "freeze"?
- Do you have an exception? a PharoDebug.log file? a crash.dmp?

Can you try to open you image from the command line?

 $ Pharo.app/Contents/Pharo Pharo.image #I do not remember the exact path to the vm executable...

like that you will be able to capture any exceptions from the terminal.

Alternatively, you can try to download pharo using zeroconf if you did not, and you can try:

 $ pharo-ui Pharo.image

Guille

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 4:58 PM, stephan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 31-07-17 16:42, TedVanGaalen wrote:
I've just installed the 32bit version. same problems here. freezes

Where did you install what versions of vm and image on what OS X version?

Stephan





--

   

Guille Polito


Research Engineer

French National Center for Scientific Research - http://www.cnrs.fr



Web: http://guillep.github.io

Phone: +33 06 52 70 66 13

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by TedVanGaalen
What happens if you lower the display resolution?

cheers -ben

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Ted F.A.van Gaalen <[hidden email]> wrote:



Hi, I reverted to 5.0 because Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit hangs on 
my Mac Mini with UDH 4K screen (may that has to do with?)
with its maiden image (at first start after download
when:  I resize or go to full screen. Maybe VM problem?
my mac Mini metrics:
Hardware Overview:

  Model Name: Mac mini
  Model Identifier: Macmini6,2
  Processor Name: Intel Core i7
  Processor Speed: 2,6 GHz
  Number of Processors: 1
  Total Number of Cores: 4
  L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
  L3 Cache: 6 MB
  Memory: 4 GB
  Boot ROM Version: MM61.0106.B1F
  SMC Version (system): 2.8f0

maybe this problem was already reported, but could find it. 


Kind Regards
TedvG
 
   


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
In reply to this post by Guillermo Polito
OS = macOS Sierra Version 10.12.6

I have encountered the same behaviour for Pharo 6.0 and 6.1
64 bit or 32 bit, it doesn't matter.
Workflow:
Downloaded Pharo6.1-mac.zip and
placed the resulting .app file into the normal Applications folder
(a hit on the Pharo website recommends this for Sierra)

Started it from there and of course loads the included pristine image.

Because of my 4k screen the first thing that I did is
change fonts to "large" via System menu and then maximize the
window by clicking the little green icon in the top left corner.

Repeated this procedure several times (reinstalling etc.) sometimes
it froze instantly, sometimes after redrawing attempts, sometimes
it still runs and I can manually "repaint" the window by swiping a
playground window everywhere. at times it works ok but then
suddenly freezes after a few minutes or so e.g. when I save a
method. So, to me it is unpredictable.
At times I've tried CTLR + "." sometimes it reacts but then
freezes again..
After that I've removed 6.1 64 bit version completely and
reinstalled it, this tim enot in the Applications folder but in
another folder on the Desktop, alas, to no avail, also for the 32 bit
version of Pharo 6.1.

Officially Apple does not support UHD 4k screens
on a Mac Mini from late 2012 with Intel HD graphics 4000.
However, like almost everybody else who uses 4K screens on this computer,
I am using the SwitchResX app which tells macOS about this resolution,
adjusting the parameters it is native 3840 x 2160 @ 30 Hz refresh rate.

Apart from some graphical glitches on the start up screen graphics
are perfect with all the apps I use, also for graphically intense apps
like Affinity Photo and Affinity Designer and even 4K videos.

If you are still using the same graphical interfacing in 6.x as in Pharo 5.0
this shouldn't be the problem, i think.? Nevertheless, yes. I will try with a
a lower non-native resolution later and let you know if that made
any difference.

Pharo 5.0 is completely stable and works flawlessly, with the
image with Seaside and Wooden (GL) loaded. No crashes at all.
really is great.

I am reviving my Smalltalk (my favorite programming system),
because I prefer to write apps for mac, linux and Windows with it.
mostly as (local) webbrowser apps, with some Morphs put in it.
This allows much faster developing and does not cause headaches :o)


I am also writing iOS apps (e.g.RavelNotes for iOS iPad and Apple TV (lots of time,
retired in 2016) but this has to be done with Xcode and Swift,
with has increasingly complexity, which is inherent to statically typed languages.
(like generics, protocols.etc.) No way (yet) to do this with Smalltalk, also
for 3D apps e.g. with SceneKit it's still not fast enough, which leaves me no choice.

Thank you, kind Regards. Ted.

(I was also here in 2012, but was under tons of IT stress, which reflected in
my writing and responding, luckily this is gone)
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
In reply to this post by Guillermo Polito

- Do you have an exception? a PharoDebug.log file? a crash.dmp?
I didn't found neither of this files on my system.
TedvG
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
In reply to this post by TedVanGaalen
Hi,
I have now tried to run Pharo 6.1 32 bit with
setting the screen resolution in
macOS System Preferences to the following
what they call "scaled resolutions" (read "non-native resolutions"),
which are less that the native screen resolution:
3200 x 1800  and
1920 x 1080.
In these resolutions the Pharo 6.1 32 bit works OK:
that is, when repeatedly switching
to and from full screen (using the green window button
in the upperleft corner) the Pharo window content is then
instantly correctly redrawn. Which is not the case with
native UHD resolution: when maximizing the window is
not redrawn and leaves white bands at the top and left side.
if I e.g.moved an internal window like the system browser
downward repeated window parts remain where it was.
Which typically is a window redraw issue.
It then gets very sluggish and in the end freezes.
I then have to Force Quit the app.
Unfortunately Pharo dies then to fast to give some
post-mortem crash.dmp.

I assume that other crashes, that is e.g. with dragging the Playground
also caused it to freeze, because of redraw issues, which occur
likewise in the 32 and 64 bit version of Pharo version > 6.0
with this UHD resolution.

So, my guess is that drawing on macOS with the
native resolution UHD 3840 * 2160 still has a bug.
I'd suggest that perhaps comparing the graphic driver logic
with that of what is used in Pharo 5.0, which functions correctly,
with UHD resolution might reveal the problem?

Have you tested this on macOS with this UHD screens?
Will it/does it also crash also on 4k iMac and even 5k iMacs or only
on the Mac Mini?

Thank you in advance for solving this problem, if possible.

TedvG

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
Very very wild guess: it could have to do with GPU<-> Open GL? <-> Pharo call time out issues because the Intel HD 4000 GPU is working at its (officially allowed) upper performance limits with 3840 x 2160 at 30 Hz refresh rate (maximum).
OTOH however:  
  1.  I am not a GPU Guru..
  2.  It works flawlessly with Pharo 5.0 and before.
  3.  All other macOS applications also work OK.

If it is a VM issue, Squeak would have the same problem
but I don't want to spend time to try this as well.

TedvG
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
since 1.8.2017 there was no response, did already anyone thought/worked to solve this problem?
Thank you,
Ted
TedVanGaalen wrote
Very very wild guess: it could have to do with GPU<-> Open GL? <-> Pharo call time out issues because the Intel HD 4000 GPU is working at its (officially allowed) upper performance limits with 3840 x 2160 at 30 Hz refresh rate (maximum).
OTOH however:  
  1.  I am not a GPU Guru..
  2.  It works flawlessly with Pharo 5.0 and before.
  3.  All other macOS applications also work OK.

If it is a VM issue, Squeak would have the same problem
but I don't want to spend time to try this as well.

TedvG
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

EstebanLM

On 11 Aug 2017, at 13:48, TedVanGaalen <[hidden email]> wrote:

since 1.8.2017 there was no response, did already anyone thought/worked to
solve this problem?
Thank you,
Ted

not yet.
I’m on holidays so I cannot test anything. 

in a couple of weeks, maybe… but I’m guessing this is a VM problem… maybe someone on vm-dev can help here?

Esteban


TedVanGaalen wrote
Very very wild guess: it could have to do with GPU<-> Open GL? <-> Pharo
call time out issues because the Intel HD 4000 GPU is working at its
(officially allowed) upper performance limits with 3840 x 2160 at 30 Hz
refresh rate (maximum).
OTOH however:  
 1.  I am not a GPU Guru.. 
 2.  It works flawlessly with Pharo 5.0 and before.
 3.  All other macOS applications also work OK. 

If it is a VM issue, Squeak would have the same problem
but I don't want to spend time to try this as well.

TedvG





--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-6-0-and-6-1-64-bit-freeze-on-MacMini-tp4957969p4959933.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
thanks for you reply, Esteban

well, I can still use Pharo 5 in the mean time, no problem.
how/where should I forward this to vm-dev?

Regards, have a nice holiday!
Ted
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
In reply to this post by EstebanLM
.. hard to imagine I am the only one with this problem?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Stephane Ducasse-3
We do not have mac minis around to test if this is related to the hardware.

Stef

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:05 PM, TedVanGaalen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> .. hard to imagine I am the only one with this problem?
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-6-0-and-6-1-64-bit-freeze-on-MacMini-tp4957969p4960027.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
Well, I am in Speyer, Germany,
 
probably too far away,

Although not really good in low level debugging
nevertheless, if I can help in some way,
please let me know!

Does it run OK then on other 4/5K screen macs?

TedvG

www.speyer.de
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

EstebanLM
In reply to this post by Stephane Ducasse-3
But I'm quite convinced is more related to the screen than the macmini.
At least, I will like to test in that direction.

> On 11 Aug 2017, at 19:23, Stephane Ducasse <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We do not have mac minis around to test if this is related to the hardware.
>
> Stef
>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 5:05 PM, TedVanGaalen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> .. hard to imagine I am the only one with this problem?
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-6-0-and-6-1-64-bit-freeze-on-MacMini-tp4957969p4960027.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
The screen is a Samsung U28D590 3840 x 2160 @ 30Hz (max reso on intel 4000 graphics) via a Thunderbolt->DisplayPort cable. Initially not directly supported, that is, the resolution was not recognized by the OS as-is, but has been enabled with the SwitchResx app here http://www.madrau.com/  which somehow tweaks the system telling it about this new resolution. Many use this utility app. It runs OK from the start since summer 2015. Pharo 5.0 runs fast and stable without problems.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Ben Coman
In reply to this post by TedVanGaalen


On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 2:07 AM, TedVanGaalen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I have now tried to run Pharo 6.1 32 bit with
setting the screen resolution in
macOS System Preferences to the following
what they call "scaled resolutions" (read "non-native resolutions"),
which are less that the native screen resolution:
3200 x 1800  and
1920 x 1080.
In these resolutions the Pharo 6.1 32 bit works OK:
that is, when repeatedly switching
to and from full screen (using the green window button
in the upperleft corner) the Pharo window content is then
instantly correctly redrawn. Which is not the case with
native UHD resolution:
 
when maximizing the window is
not redrawn and leaves white bands at the top and left side.

Is it possible for you to post screenshots of these, so we have a concrete understanding of the behaviour?
(note posts are limited to 1000kb)
 
if I e.g.moved an internal window like the system browser
downward repeated window parts remain where it was.

If I'm guessing was you are seeing on this second point, in the past four years I've seen similar behaviour a few times. I think this was on Windows.  I lived with it and later cleared up on its own, "perhaps" when I changed hardware (but this Windows -> OSX -> Windows several months later).  I had a very-vague intuition the problem may be related to AMD graphics chipset.  Google found other applications were having similar problems.  An exotic interaction with some specific hardware driver could account for why its not being widely observed.

Which typically is a window redraw issue.
It then gets very sluggish and in the end freezes.
I then have to Force Quit the app.
Unfortunately Pharo dies then to fast to give some
post-mortem crash.dmp.

In the window movement shadowing I saw, I didn't experience any sluggish or freezing behaviour.
 
cheers -ben 
 

I assume that other crashes, that is e.g. with dragging the Playground
also caused it to freeze, because of redraw issues, which occur
likewise in the 32 and 64 bit version of Pharo version > 6.0
with this UHD resolution.

So, my guess is that drawing on macOS with the
native resolution UHD 3840 * 2160 still has a bug.
I'd suggest that perhaps comparing the graphic driver logic
with that of what is used in Pharo 5.0, which functions correctly,
with UHD resolution might reveal the problem?

Have you tested this on macOS with this UHD screens?
Will it/does it also crash also on 4k iMac and even 5k iMacs or only
on the Mac Mini?

Thank you in advance for solving this problem, if possible.

TedvG





--
View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-6-0-and-6-1-64-bit-freeze-on-MacMini-tp4957969p4958189.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

TedVanGaalen
here's a screenshot. notice the white band in the content area after maximizing the window. It freezed, can't move the inner windows anymore and ctrl '.' user interrupt doesn't work and have to force quit Pharo. No idea what happens but Pharo 5.0 runs as stable as ever.
Kind Regards
TedvG
 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Pharo 6.0 and 6.1 64 bit freeze on MacMini

Tim Mackinnon
Actually this reminds me of a similar problem I’ve seen on my MacBook Pro (retina) - if I stretch the desktop to try and use the full space of the screen (not maximising it) I have on occasion frozen  - however its not actually frozen it seems that drawing on screen has stopped, and if I resize the window a bit smaller drawing restarts and is fine. It seems to be when I try and drag the pharo desktop down to cover the last 5 or so pixels at the bottom.

Might be something totally different, but I mention it in case it rings any bells.

Tim

> On 16 Aug 2017, at 12:13, TedVanGaalen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> here's a screenshot. notice the white band in the content area after
> maximizing the window. It freezed, can't move the inner windows anymore and
> ctrl '.' user interrupt doesn't work and have to force quit Pharo. No idea
> what happens but Pharo 5.0 runs as stable as ever.
> Kind Regards
> TedvG
> <http://forum.world.st/file/n4961631/Screen_Shot_2017-08-15_at_18.png>  
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-6-0-and-6-1-64-bit-freeze-on-MacMini-tp4957969p4961631.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>


1234