Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system

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tty
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Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system

tty
Hi All,

Stefan Ducasse replied to me regarding my synapsis of the CMakeVMaker code.


 Igor created all the logic of the CMakeGenerator but I guess that he did not add good class comments so I thought that it would be great if you can
add the comment to a class so that it is not lost. Information external to classes is often lost.

And I agree with him.

In Linux/Open Source world, are the conventions of README and HOWTO. I propose that Squeak adopt two class categories for developers to add easy access to documentation on subsystems in the README category and quick howto_foo_a_bar classes in the HOWTO category.

I know we have the web, and there is a Help system, but I find the Help system a bit clunky to use and breaking from Squeak environment to Web for information breaks the flow.

A recent example of where this proposal would come in handy is the recent discussion about reviving Tweak for Squeak 4.5/4.6. The time investment to get up to speed is vastly increased by having to hunt for information.


just my .02

cheers.

tty



cbc
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Re: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system

cbc
Interesting.  Could you provide a small example for a class that you are familiar with of the README and HOWTO?  Small so that it doesn't take too long, and an example so I can actually see what is being proposed.  I think I like the idea, but...

-cbc


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 11:29 AM, gettimothy <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi All,

Stefan Ducasse replied to me regarding my synapsis of the CMakeVMaker code.


 Igor created all the logic of the CMakeGenerator but I guess that he did not add good class comments so I thought that it would be great if you can
add the comment to a class so that it is not lost. Information external to classes is often lost.

And I agree with him.

In Linux/Open Source world, are the conventions of README and HOWTO. I propose that Squeak adopt two class categories for developers to add easy access to documentation on subsystems in the README category and quick howto_foo_a_bar classes in the HOWTO category.

I know we have the web, and there is a Help system, but I find the Help system a bit clunky to use and breaking from Squeak environment to Web for information breaks the flow.

A recent example of where this proposal would come in handy is the recent discussion about reviving Tweak for Squeak 4.5/4.6. The time investment to get up to speed is vastly increased by having to hunt for information.


just my .02

cheers.

tty







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Re: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system

timrowledge
We already have a fairly decent Help system available; see the help item in the top docking bar menus. What we lack is content for that help system, and a clear organisation of it; consider the several workspaces, the Terse Guide, the Help Browser that also includes the terse guide. I’d suspect that having a nice link to available help info from the Browser might encourage more use of it.

The tool is decent and would be better with simpler organisation, but the real missing part is content. The problem is that writing good help & tutorial content is hard work. Take a look on the swiki to see how several groups and individuals have tried to build tutorials and lost steam after a while. I’ve been trying to clean up and update some of it but it takes a lot of thought and a startling amount of time.

On the plus side, a good bit of help/tutorial on a single, narrow area is still a good bit of help. It’s not you have to write a guide to the entire system in one go. Writing help info is a very good exercise when you are learning about a new bit of the system; nothing helps you organise your thoughts and test your understanding like trying to provide a clear explanation for others.



tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Useful random insult:- Puts a finger in his ear so the draft through his head isn't annoying.



tty
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Re: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy    access to documentation within the system

tty
Hi Tim.

We already have a fairly decent Help system available; see the help item in the top docking bar menus. What we lack is content for that help system, and a clear organisation of it; consider the several workspaces, the Terse Guide, the Help Browser that also includes the terse guide. I’d suspect that having a nice link to available help info from the Browser might encourage more use of it.

I have used the Help System and I have practiced writing books in it. I must say I am not a fan of it for the reasons you give and some others I have forgotten. (ok, I opened the Help Browser and some reasons have come back to me: 
No search, no type-ahead to browse for topics, difficult to contribute to, etc). 

What I have in mind is something like 'http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/text/' for the HOWTO's but in Smalltalk category that "anybody" can write to to contribute and that is simple text.

Maybe the Help Browser is the way to go, but in my opinion, the learning curve and work required to contribute to it dissuade the community from using it.

cheers.

tty



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Re: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system

Chris Cunnington-4
In reply to this post by timrowledge

On Jun 12, 2014, at 5:25 PM, tim Rowledge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We already have a fairly decent Help system available; see the help item in the top docking bar menus. What we lack is content for that help system, and a clear organisation of it; consider the several workspaces, the Terse Guide, the Help Browser that also includes the terse guide. I’d suspect that having a nice link to available help info from the Browser might encourage more use of it.
>
> The tool is decent and would be better with simpler organisation, but the real missing part is content. The problem is that writing good help & tutorial content is hard work. Take a look on the swiki to see how several groups and individuals have tried to build tutorials and lost steam after a while. I’ve been trying to clean up and update some of it but it takes a lot of thought and a startling amount of time.
>
> On the plus side, a good bit of help/tutorial on a single, narrow area is still a good bit of help. It’s not you have to write a guide to the entire system in one go. Writing help info is a very good exercise when you are learning about a new bit of the system; nothing helps you organise your thoughts and test your understanding like trying to provide a clear explanation for others

Help system is a delivery system while wiki.squeak.org has lots of good content. A cool thing to do here is to have the Help system serve the wiki content. In the same way that SqueakMap uses a web interface for new content and then serves that content in the image with a GUI widget use Help system as a vector for the consumption of wiki pages.

I'm in the process of exploring how the XML pages used by Swiki as on-disk persistence can be converted into TinyWiki objects, into objects that can be stored in an SSRepository file and served by a hacked SS2. I have a workflow [1], but I need to make it work and then automate it.

I think that once I have the wiki pages saved as an SSRepository file, then anybody could download it, like a SqueakMap map file, and consume it with Help system.

Chris



> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Useful random insult:- Puts a finger in his ear so the draft through his head isn't annoying.
>
>
>

[1]

NuSwikiPage
        name: 'Intro to 1.5'
        text: a String pulled from an XML file

1. Replace name spaces with hyphens (i.e. Intro-To-1.5 ) to be used later as the URI token like /squeaksource/Traits, /squeaksource/MineSqeeper, /squeaksource/Intro-To-1.5
2. Use the correct Swiki action to convert the page numbers (i.e. *1*) in the NuSwikiPage>>text into proper names for the links (i.e. *Intro to 1.5* )
3. Make a dictionary where the keys are the name and the values the complete wiki format string.
4. Modify TWParser in TWWiki so that it creates HTML links instead of what it already does.
5. Feed the value, the wiki format string, into the TWParser and get a TWPage.
6. Push the keys and values into SSProject instances:

SSProject
        id: 'Intro-To-1.5'
        wiki: a TWPage

7. Put the SSProject into SSRepository
8. Serve with Ohana ( a hacked SS2)

The end result is that you modify SS2 ( with a project called Ohana) so that it serves Swiki pages as TWWiki pages. You've seen this before, because every single SS2 project has it's own wiki.  
That means a Swiki NuSwikiPage is converted to a TWWiki object, which is easily rendered with Seaside. And it opens to be edited just like any project wiki in SS2. Then move all 6100 Swiki pages to box4 as a single SSRepository file.

The point is that with all this conversion of godawful XML files into TinyWiki objects, I can create a separate conversion process and feed them to Help system. There's you're content.
I like this idea. I've already done the worst parts. I'll explore it.



tty
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Re: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy    access to documentation within the system

tty
Hi Chris

I'm in the process of exploring how the XML pages used by Swiki as on-disk persistence can be converted into TinyWiki objects, into objects that can be stored in an SSRepository file and served by a hacked SS2. I have a workflow [1], but I need to make it work and then automate it.

I think that once I have the wiki pages saved as an SSRepository file, then anybody could download it, like a SqueakMap map file, and consume it with Help system.

Chris

That's a great idea.




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Re: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy    access to documentation within the system

Chris Cunnington-4
Yea!  :)

Chris 


On Jun 12, 2014, at 6:43 PM, gettimothy <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Chris

I'm in the process of exploring how the XML pages used by Swiki as on-disk persistence can be converted into TinyWiki objects, into objects that can be stored in an SSRepository file and served by a hacked SS2. I have a workflow [1], but I need to make it work and then automate it.

I think that once I have the wiki pages saved as an SSRepository file, then anybody could download it, like a SqueakMap map file, and consume it with Help system.

Chris

That's a great idea.






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Squeak Swiki (was: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system)

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by timrowledge
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 02:25:37PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
>
> The problem is that writing good help & tutorial content is hard work. Take a look on the swiki to see how several groups and individuals have tried to build tutorials and lost steam after a while. I?ve been trying to clean up and update some of it but it takes a lot of thought and a startling amount of time.
>

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but the updates to the
swiki are very good. I can now go to http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and get
an overview of Squeak, with links that quickly get me to useful content.
Big improvement.

BTW, we need to fix the "Wiki" tab on the squeak.org page so that it takes
you directly to wiki.squeak.org/squeak. Anyone know how to fix that?

Dave


tty
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Re: Squeak Swiki (was: Proposing class Category README or    HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system)

tty

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but the updates to the
swiki are very good. I can now go to http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and get
an overview of Squeak, with links that quickly get me to useful content.
Big improvement.

BTW, we need to fix the "Wiki" tab on the squeak.org page so that it takes
you directly to wiki.squeak.org/squeak. Anyone know how to fix that?

Dave

Who can contribute to the wiki?  eh. never mind. I had to scroll to find it, but here it is:


This site is an annex to the Squeak homepage at squeak.org in the form of a Wiki, which means that there is no designated editor. You can modify any page here (except the Help Guide), and add your questions, answers, and examples of Squeak code. If you see a way to improve the site, please feel free to do it yourself! If you are new to this site, please drop by the Acceptable Use page. Also, if you want to edit any page of this wiki, click the edit link in the upper menu of the page and when asked use squeak as username and viewpoints as password, as explained in the Squeak Documentation Team page.
Don't know what a Wiki is? Try some of these great pages:
I will poke around.

thx, Dave.




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Re: Squeak Swiki (was: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system)

timrowledge
In reply to this post by David T. Lewis

On 12-06-2014, at 4:04 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 02:25:37PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
>>
>> The problem is that writing good help & tutorial content is hard work. Take a look on the swiki to see how several groups and individuals have tried to build tutorials and lost steam after a while. I?ve been trying to clean up and update some of it but it takes a lot of thought and a startling amount of time.
>>
>
> I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but the updates to the
> swiki are very good. I can now go to http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and get
> an overview of Squeak, with links that quickly get me to useful content.
> Big improvement.

It’s a slow process - a lot of the changes to the front page I did over a year ago and some at the end of last year! I’ve tried to clean up the documentation & ‘squeak books’ pages, and made a start on pulling together some old and new tutorial stuff to try to make a coherent whole. It’s a huge project. More input needed.


tim
--
tim Rowledge; [hidden email]; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
Calm down -- it's only ones and zeros.



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Re: Squeak Swiki (was: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system)

David T. Lewis
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 04:19:46PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:

>
> On 12-06-2014, at 4:04 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 02:25:37PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
> >>
> >> The problem is that writing good help & tutorial content is hard work. Take a look on the swiki to see how several groups and individuals have tried to build tutorials and lost steam after a while. I?ve been trying to clean up and update some of it but it takes a lot of thought and a startling amount of time.
> >>
> >
> > I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but the updates to the
> > swiki are very good. I can now go to http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and get
> > an overview of Squeak, with links that quickly get me to useful content.
> > Big improvement.
>
> It?s a slow process - a lot of the changes to the front page I did over a year ago and some at the end of last year! I?ve tried to clean up the documentation & ?squeak books? pages, and made a start on pulling together some old and new tutorial stuff to try to make a coherent whole. It?s a huge project. More input needed.
>

I hope you are willing to accept a small amount of praise, glory, and gratitude
in lieu of actual work.

I do think that it would be helpful to make this more directly visible from
the squeak.org home page. The home page provides a nice welcome, but there
is not much content behind it. It might be good if new users could quickly
find their way to wiki.squeak.org.squeak.

Dave
 

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Re: Squeak Swiki (was: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system)

Chris Cunnington-4

On Jun 12, 2014, at 7:42 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 04:19:46PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:

On 12-06-2014, at 4:04 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 02:25:37PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:

The problem is that writing good help & tutorial content is hard work. Take a look on the swiki to see how several groups and individuals have tried to build tutorials and lost steam after a while. I?ve been trying to clean up and update some of it but it takes a lot of thought and a startling amount of time.


I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but the updates to the
swiki are very good. I can now go to http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and get
an overview of Squeak, with links that quickly get me to useful content.
Big improvement.

It?s a slow process - a lot of the changes to the front page I did over a year ago and some at the end of last year! I?ve tried to clean up the documentation & ?squeak books? pages, and made a start on pulling together some old and new tutorial stuff to try to make a coherent whole. It?s a huge project. More input needed.


I hope you are willing to accept a small amount of praise, glory, and gratitude
in lieu of actual work.

I do think that it would be helpful to make this more directly visible from
the squeak.org home page.

I'll change that tomorrow. 

Chris 

The home page provides a nice welcome, but there
is not much content behind it. It might be good if new users could quickly
find their way to wiki.squeak.org.squeak.

Dave



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Re: Squeak Swiki (was: Proposing class Category README or HOWTO for easy access to documentation within the system)

David T. Lewis
On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 08:02:14PM -0400, Chris Cunnington wrote:

>
> On Jun 12, 2014, at 7:42 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 04:19:46PM -0700, tim Rowledge wrote:
> >>
> >> On 12-06-2014, at 4:04 PM, David T. Lewis <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I don't know if anyone has mentioned it recently, but the updates to the
> >>> swiki are very good. I can now go to http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and get
> >>> an overview of Squeak, with links that quickly get me to useful content.
> >>> Big improvement.
> >>
> >> It?s a slow process - a lot of the changes to the front page I did over a year ago and some at the end of last year! I?ve tried to clean up the documentation & ?squeak books? pages, and made a start on pulling together some old and new tutorial stuff to try to make a coherent whole. It?s a huge project. More input needed.
> >>
> >
> > I hope you are willing to accept a small amount of praise, glory, and gratitude
> > in lieu of actual work.
> >
> > I do think that it would be helpful to make this more directly visible from
> > the squeak.org home page.
>
> I'll change that tomorrow.

Thanks Chris :)

Dave