Questions, communication and process

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Questions, communication and process

stephane ducasse-2

Hi vm guys,

I would like to know the process to report problems, issues, enh to the vm because people asked me
and I have no idea how this is done. I read the web site but I could not find a bugtracker.

Several questions:
        - How do people report problems? Just sending an email in the mailing-list is enough?
        - How a fix in one OS is propagated to the others?
        - How the user can know that?

I read that on http://www.squeakvm.org/unix/download.html

If you're having problems...

        • If it's a general problem of installation or bizarre behaviour, ask for help on the Squeak VM mailing list. If you are not already subscribed, you can browse the list archives and/or subscribe online.
It is a bad idea to send VM problem reports to the general-purpose 'squeak-dev' mailing list. There is no guarantee that anyone involved with VM development and maintenance will ever read your message.
        • If it's a Unix-specific problem that you think might be a bug, please report it to the above mailing list and send me email. (The former ensures others know of your problem, and the latter ensures I will address your problem promptly.) If you have a fix to submit, please send me complete modified files (not 'diffs').
        • Suggestions for improvements to this page or to the way Unix Squeak is distributed are also welcome. Send email to me at the above address.
If you find bugs in this web site (broken links or bad formatting in a particular browser) then please tell me about it. Thanks!

Thanks for your time.

Stef
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Re: Questions, communication and process

Ian Piumarta
 
Hi Stef,

On Apr 9, 2010, at 2:23 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:

> - How do people report problems? Just sending an email in the  
> mailing-list is enough?

Here are the options, necessarily biased towards my preference which  
is to try to avoid having to poll for outstanding issues.

If it's a general problem of installation or bizarre behaviour that  
differs between platforms, ask for help on the Squeak VM mailing list.

http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/vm-dev

Pharo and Squeak users are EQUALLY WELCOME to report VM issues on that  
list.  Squeak has several people who regularly take the time to  
forward things from squeak-dev to vm-dev when appropriate.  You might  
want to encourage the same thing on the Pharo list.  I know for a fact  
that there are several vm-dev subscribers that monitor the Pharo  
list.  (You might want to make it clear that Pharo uses the Squeak VM  
too.  This does not necessarily appear to be universally understood.)

If it's a Unix-specific problem that you think might be a bug, report  
it to the above mailing list AND send me email.  Fixes are best  
submitted as complete modified files (not 'diffs').  (There might well  
be a way to tell ediff to use diff output directly, but that does not  
guarantee that your 'original' and my 'original' are in any way  
related.  Sending whole files is MUCH more robust.)

If it's Windows-specific, try the above list and Andreas Raab.  For  
Mac-specific, the above list and John McIntosh.  If it's common code  
shared by all platforms, especially code generated by VMMaker, send to  
Dave Lewis and the above list.

VM bugs can fed to mantis here: bugs.squeak.org

The people mentioned above probably look at mantis on a regular  
basis.  Anything with more than four legs gives me the heebie-jeebies,  
which isn't why I don't regularly trawl mantis but it'll do.

> - How a fix in one OS is propagated to the others?

Fixes that affect more than one OS are very often in the common code  
that is generated automatically and shared between all the platforms.  
There is no explicit manual propagation required.  (That being said,  
the people mentioned above are often in contact on a daily basis.  
When co-ordination is required, it will happen.)

The exception is that some code is shared between Unix and Mac.  John  
is good at spotting commits from me that affect him, and is good at  
bugging me when necessary into fixing anything Unixy that might affect  
him.

> - How the user can know that?

Watch vm-dev for discussions or commit reports that say the issue was  
fixed.  If it is in mantis, it might even get closed too.

The above reflects how I like to work, and I can only speak for  
myself.  MPG from the others mentioned above might not be comparable.

Cheers,
Ian

(Feel free to forward, re-post, etc., the above as you see fit.)

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Re: Questions, communication and process

stephane ducasse-2

Ok thanks
I forwarded that to pharo and we will do a web summary for people.

I will start to read vm code and the material related such as the newblue book chapter too.

Stef



On Apr 9, 2010, at 12:35 PM, Ian Piumarta wrote:

> Hi Stef,
>
> On Apr 9, 2010, at 2:23 AM, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
>> - How do people report problems? Just sending an email in the mailing-list is enough?
>
> Here are the options, necessarily biased towards my preference which is to try to avoid having to poll for outstanding issues.
>
> If it's a general problem of installation or bizarre behaviour that differs between platforms, ask for help on the Squeak VM mailing list.
>
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/vm-dev
>
> Pharo and Squeak users are EQUALLY WELCOME to report VM issues on that list.  Squeak has several people who regularly take the time to forward things from squeak-dev to vm-dev when appropriate.  You might want to encourage the same thing on the Pharo list.  I know for a fact that there are several vm-dev subscribers that monitor the Pharo list.  (You might want to make it clear that Pharo uses the Squeak VM too.  This does not necessarily appear to be universally understood.)
>
> If it's a Unix-specific problem that you think might be a bug, report it to the above mailing list AND send me email.  Fixes are best submitted as complete modified files (not 'diffs').  (There might well be a way to tell ediff to use diff output directly, but that does not guarantee that your 'original' and my 'original' are in any way related.  Sending whole files is MUCH more robust.)
>
> If it's Windows-specific, try the above list and Andreas Raab.  For Mac-specific, the above list and John McIntosh.  If it's common code shared by all platforms, especially code generated by VMMaker, send to Dave Lewis and the above list.
>
> VM bugs can fed to mantis here: bugs.squeak.org
>
> The people mentioned above probably look at mantis on a regular basis.  Anything with more than four legs gives me the heebie-jeebies, which isn't why I don't regularly trawl mantis but it'll do.
>
>> - How a fix in one OS is propagated to the others?
>
> Fixes that affect more than one OS are very often in the common code that is generated automatically and shared between all the platforms.  There is no explicit manual propagation required.  (That being said, the people mentioned above are often in contact on a daily basis.  When co-ordination is required, it will happen.)
>
> The exception is that some code is shared between Unix and Mac.  John is good at spotting commits from me that affect him, and is good at bugging me when necessary into fixing anything Unixy that might affect him.
>
>> - How the user can know that?
>
> Watch vm-dev for discussions or commit reports that say the issue was fixed.  If it is in mantis, it might even get closed too.
>
> The above reflects how I like to work, and I can only speak for myself.  MPG from the others mentioned above might not be comparable.
>
> Cheers,
> Ian
>
> (Feel free to forward, re-post, etc., the above as you see fit.)
>

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Re: Questions, communication and process

David T. Lewis
In reply to this post by stephane ducasse-2
 
On Fri, Apr 09, 2010 at 11:23:18AM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
>
> Hi vm guys,
>
> I would like to know the process to report problems, issues, enh to the vm because people asked me
> and I have no idea how this is done. I read the web site but I could not find a bugtracker.

Hi Stef,

In addition to Ian's explanations, I'll add couple of points.

>
> Several questions:
> - How do people report problems? Just sending an email in the mailing-list is enough?

The bugtracker is Mantis at bugs.squeak.org. Use category "VM" when
reporting or searching for problems. For any problems or enhancement
requests that may time time to resolve, it is very helpful to use
the bugtracker because it provides a process for ensuring that issues
are addressed or at least not forgotten, and also a reference for
people who run into an issue that someone else has addressed.

I try to catch issues that I see on the Pharo and squeak-dev lists
and enter them on Mantis if they will need follow up, but I'm sure
that I miss things from time to time.

Follow Ian's instructions for reporting problems to vm-dev and the
platform developer. That is the way that problems get noticed,
discussed, and addressed. But to ensure follow-up, please also
use the bugtracker.

> - How a fix in one OS is propagated to the others?
> - How the user can know that?

For issues that affect the VM overall, the change history of the
VMMaker package on squeaksource is helpful. You can use Monticello
of course, but I like to point a web browser at www.squeaksource.com,
project VMMaker, and browse through the entries under the "News" tab.

A remaining problem is that that the VM user cannot always tell if
their VM actually contains a particular fix or feature. To some extent
you can figure it out from the name of the VM file, but we need a better
run time check. We (or I) will probably add a way to check this through
a primitive, but for now it remains confusing.

Dave

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Re: Questions, communication and process

stephane ducasse-2

excellent I forwarded that to the pharo mailing-list

Stef

On Apr 9, 2010, at 2:52 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:

>
> On Fri, Apr 09, 2010 at 11:23:18AM +0200, stephane ducasse wrote:
>>
>> Hi vm guys,
>>
>> I would like to know the process to report problems, issues, enh to the vm because people asked me
>> and I have no idea how this is done. I read the web site but I could not find a bugtracker.
>
> Hi Stef,
>
> In addition to Ian's explanations, I'll add couple of points.
>
>>
>> Several questions:
>> - How do people report problems? Just sending an email in the mailing-list is enough?
>
> The bugtracker is Mantis at bugs.squeak.org. Use category "VM" when
> reporting or searching for problems. For any problems or enhancement
> requests that may time time to resolve, it is very helpful to use
> the bugtracker because it provides a process for ensuring that issues
> are addressed or at least not forgotten, and also a reference for
> people who run into an issue that someone else has addressed.
>
> I try to catch issues that I see on the Pharo and squeak-dev lists
> and enter them on Mantis if they will need follow up, but I'm sure
> that I miss things from time to time.
>
> Follow Ian's instructions for reporting problems to vm-dev and the
> platform developer. That is the way that problems get noticed,
> discussed, and addressed. But to ensure follow-up, please also
> use the bugtracker.
>
>> - How a fix in one OS is propagated to the others?
>> - How the user can know that?
>
> For issues that affect the VM overall, the change history of the
> VMMaker package on squeaksource is helpful. You can use Monticello
> of course, but I like to point a web browser at www.squeaksource.com,
> project VMMaker, and browse through the entries under the "News" tab.
>
> A remaining problem is that that the VM user cannot always tell if
> their VM actually contains a particular fix or feature. To some extent
> you can figure it out from the name of the VM file, but we need a better
> run time check. We (or I) will probably add a way to check this through
> a primitive, but for now it remains confusing.
>
> Dave
>