RE: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

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RE: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Ron Teitelbaum
All,

It seems to me that Pavel has spent a great deal of time creating images
that are very useful for the community.  Most people respect and trust
Pavel's work.  For example I saw recently that Avi's work is based on a
previous Pavel image.  

Since the release team is having some difficulty getting going, I was
wondering if we could not try to encourage Pavel to join and head up the
release team.  In my opinion Pavel is the obvious choice.  I'd be interested
in what other members of the Squeak Community think.

If we were able to get Pavel to take the job would the current board support
this change?  What do the new candidates for the board think?

Thanks,

Ron Teitelbaum


> From: Klaus D. Witzel
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:45 AM
>
> All,
>
> I have the same concern regarding Ralph's silence. But the release team is
> organized, there is an official liason with the board (most likely also
> reading this list).
>
> If Ralph does not respond to your message (say, within 48 hours or so)
> then the next hierarchy has to be involved. You'll need to prepare a
> consise message (when was last communication, what was last action, if
> appropriate) in order to not require the liason to find that out by
> himself.
>
> /Klaus
>
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:55:18 +0100, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
> >
> >
> > El 2/18/07 9:45 AM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]>
> escribió:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> as I see it, the ability to work of the release team is very limited
> >> now. Ralph doesn't communicate and steps of next team members seems to
> >> be uncoordinated.
> >>
> >> So I would like to ask you how do you want to solve it.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -- Pavel
> >
> > Was me what ask Ralph email you for having a board and email private
> > also.
> >
> > It's very sad for me what I have a process and a image from december 12.
> > That's and the whole process what I dream converge at some point with
> > MinimalMorphic was stopped when Ralph stop emailing.
> > And I very tired to do things what must go back and never see light.
> > I have access to all sites now, but don't wish put something what again
> > must
> > go back.
> >
> > So , I could do things if people in charge trust me and if I do mistakes
> > could improve at some point.
> > Or we could wait until Ralph shows.
> >
> > What you think?
> >
> > Edgar


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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Pavel Krivanek
Hi,

for completeness' sake, here's the response by Keith Hodges who is the
most active release team member now:
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/v3dot10/2007-February/000329.html

I don't want to stay against Ralph or against the release team so I
think that the team members should adapt on current situation and
simply coordinate steps together and be less dependent on Raph's
leadership.

I hope that my plans for the next Squeak development are well known
and I think that they are the same as Ralph's. In case that the
community will want me as the potential next release team member,  it
will not necessary to persuade me.

-- Pavel

On 2/18/07, Ron Teitelbaum <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All,
>
> It seems to me that Pavel has spent a great deal of time creating images
> that are very useful for the community.  Most people respect and trust
> Pavel's work.  For example I saw recently that Avi's work is based on a
> previous Pavel image.
>
> Since the release team is having some difficulty getting going, I was
> wondering if we could not try to encourage Pavel to join and head up the
> release team.  In my opinion Pavel is the obvious choice.  I'd be interested
> in what other members of the Squeak Community think.
>
> If we were able to get Pavel to take the job would the current board support
> this change?  What do the new candidates for the board think?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Teitelbaum
>
>
> > From: Klaus D. Witzel
> > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:45 AM
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I have the same concern regarding Ralph's silence. But the release team is
> > organized, there is an official liason with the board (most likely also
> > reading this list).
> >
> > If Ralph does not respond to your message (say, within 48 hours or so)
> > then the next hierarchy has to be involved. You'll need to prepare a
> > consise message (when was last communication, what was last action, if
> > appropriate) in order to not require the liason to find that out by
> > himself.
> >
> > /Klaus
> >
> > On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:55:18 +0100, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > El 2/18/07 9:45 AM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]>
> > escribió:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> as I see it, the ability to work of the release team is very limited
> > >> now. Ralph doesn't communicate and steps of next team members seems to
> > >> be uncoordinated.
> > >>
> > >> So I would like to ask you how do you want to solve it.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers,
> > >> -- Pavel
> > >
> > > Was me what ask Ralph email you for having a board and email private
> > > also.
> > >
> > > It's very sad for me what I have a process and a image from december 12.
> > > That's and the whole process what I dream converge at some point with
> > > MinimalMorphic was stopped when Ralph stop emailing.
> > > And I very tired to do things what must go back and never see light.
> > > I have access to all sites now, but don't wish put something what again
> > > must
> > > go back.
> > >
> > > So , I could do things if people in charge trust me and if I do mistakes
> > > could improve at some point.
> > > Or we could wait until Ralph shows.
> > >
> > > What you think?
> > >
> > > Edgar
>
>

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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Edgar J. De Cleene



El 2/18/07 2:18 PM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Hi,
>
> for completeness' sake, here's the response by Keith Hodges who is the
> most active release team member now:

Well , he have some strong ideas what Ralph and I don't buy.
Read carefully the mails.

> less dependent on Ralph's leadership.
I repeat have the procedure complete from December, and for have people
happy must go back some steps.

I publish several tentative images and have the last for remote test several
days.
Load some new projects also and Fabrik, all works

Here I almost was burn at the stake for cook all Test relative in a
package. Your Etoys have 2.8 mb and inside you put several things (Test
also)

I think is possible a similar .image what MinimalMorphic with my procedure
taking normal 3.9 , applying "top rip" of existent today packages, plus Juan
Etoys removal.
A more small Etoys only taking yours and Etoys reload.
What you think ?

Repeat, is a case of trust. People trust Ralph. He have the last word, and
if some delay or "no activity" shows is perhaps he is busy and me don't wish
do unwanted things.

Or maybe we should have several 3.10, as Keith says.
Yours view, Keith view, Ralph view, Jerome view, etc.

Edgar
 



       

       
               
__________________________________________________
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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

tblanchard
In reply to this post by Ron Teitelbaum
I'd like to hear that someone picked up the phone and asked Ralph why  
he's been silent first.

On Feb 18, 2007, at 6:18 AM, Ron Teitelbaum wrote:

> All,
>
> It seems to me that Pavel has spent a great deal of time creating  
> images
> that are very useful for the community.  Most people respect and trust
> Pavel's work.  For example I saw recently that Avi's work is based  
> on a
> previous Pavel image.
>
> Since the release team is having some difficulty getting going, I was
> wondering if we could not try to encourage Pavel to join and head  
> up the
> release team.  In my opinion Pavel is the obvious choice.  I'd be  
> interested
> in what other members of the Squeak Community think.
>
> If we were able to get Pavel to take the job would the current  
> board support
> this change?  What do the new candidates for the board think?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ron Teitelbaum
>
>
>> From: Klaus D. Witzel
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:45 AM
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I have the same concern regarding Ralph's silence. But the release  
>> team is
>> organized, there is an official liason with the board (most likely  
>> also
>> reading this list).
>>
>> If Ralph does not respond to your message (say, within 48 hours or  
>> so)
>> then the next hierarchy has to be involved. You'll need to prepare a
>> consise message (when was last communication, what was last  
>> action, if
>> appropriate) in order to not require the liason to find that out by
>> himself.
>>
>> /Klaus
>>
>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:55:18 +0100, Edgar J. De Cleene wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> El 2/18/07 9:45 AM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]>
>> escribió:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> as I see it, the ability to work of the release team is very  
>>>> limited
>>>> now. Ralph doesn't communicate and steps of next team members  
>>>> seems to
>>>> be uncoordinated.
>>>>
>>>> So I would like to ask you how do you want to solve it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> -- Pavel
>>>
>>> Was me what ask Ralph email you for having a board and email private
>>> also.
>>>
>>> It's very sad for me what I have a process and a image from  
>>> december 12.
>>> That's and the whole process what I dream converge at some point  
>>> with
>>> MinimalMorphic was stopped when Ralph stop emailing.
>>> And I very tired to do things what must go back and never see light.
>>> I have access to all sites now, but don't wish put something what  
>>> again
>>> must
>>> go back.
>>>
>>> So , I could do things if people in charge trust me and if I do  
>>> mistakes
>>> could improve at some point.
>>> Or we could wait until Ralph shows.
>>>
>>> What you think?
>>>
>>> Edgar
>
> _______________________________________________
> V3dot10 mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/v3dot10


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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Pavel Krivanek
In reply to this post by Edgar J. De Cleene
On 2/18/07, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> El 2/18/07 2:18 PM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > for completeness' sake, here's the response by Keith Hodges who is the
> > most active release team member now:
>
> Well , he have some strong ideas what Ralph and I don't buy.
> Read carefully the mails.
>
> > less dependent on Ralph's leadership.
> I repeat have the procedure complete from December, and for have people
> happy must go back some steps.

Maybe your goals weren't clear enough. I don't know.

> I publish several tentative images and have the last for remote test several
> days.
> Load some new projects also and Fabrik, all works
>
> Here I almost was burn at the stake for cook all Test relative in a
> package. Your Etoys have 2.8 mb and inside you put several things (Test
> also)
>
> I think is possible a similar .image what MinimalMorphic with my procedure
> taking normal 3.9 , applying "top rip" of existent today packages, plus Juan
> Etoys removal.
> A more small Etoys only taking yours and Etoys reload.
> What you think ?

I think that the priority is to detach and sort tests from the EToys
package and then avoid overrides in MinimalMorphic and EToys. Then it
will be much easier to continue in safe packaging process - do top
down packaging in terms of this big package. I really see no reason
why we should redefine MinimalMorphic (I hope that I've understood you
well)

> Repeat, is a case of trust. People trust Ralph. He have the last word, and
> if some delay or "no activity" shows is perhaps he is busy and me don't wish
> do unwanted things.
>
> Or maybe we should have several 3.10, as Keith says.
> Yours view, Keith view, Ralph view, Jerome view, etc.

It doesn't make any sense. I hope we are not mad :-)

-- Pavel

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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Edgar J. De Cleene



El 2/18/07 5:17 PM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> I think that the priority is to detach and sort tests from the EToys
> package and then avoid overrides in MinimalMorphic and EToys. Then it
> will be much easier to continue in safe packaging process - do top
> down packaging in terms of this big package. I really see no reason
> why we should redefine MinimalMorphic (I hope that I've understood you
> well)

It's a question of what is a package and what is safe at this time.
You have a killer in your procedure, I was a long fan of your work.
I don't wish change MinimalMorphic.
Only I saying what if you agree on made several parts of your EToys-pk.4.mcz
and maybe some changes to EToysLoader-pk.8.mcz for having a image derived
from 3.9 and have your kernel as target for 3.11.

Maybe I should made a new "tentative" 3.10 tomorrow and put somewhere so you
and all guys here could see and agree , disagree or propose changes.

Edgar



       

       
               
__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas


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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Pavel Krivanek
On 2/18/07, Edgar J. De Cleene <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> El 2/18/07 5:17 PM, "Pavel Krivanek" <[hidden email]> escribió:
>
> > I think that the priority is to detach and sort tests from the EToys
> > package and then avoid overrides in MinimalMorphic and EToys. Then it
> > will be much easier to continue in safe packaging process - do top
> > down packaging in terms of this big package. I really see no reason
> > why we should redefine MinimalMorphic (I hope that I've understood you
> > well)
>
> It's a question of what is a package and what is safe at this time.
> You have a killer in your procedure, I was a long fan of your work.
> I don't wish change MinimalMorphic.
> Only I saying what if you agree on made several parts of your EToys-pk.4.mcz
> and maybe some changes to EToysLoader-pk.8.mcz for having a image derived
> from 3.9 and have your kernel as target for 3.11.

It's still hard to understand you, sorry. Do you mean derived image
that will have lot of own code and improvements?

> Maybe I should made a new "tentative" 3.10 tomorrow and put somewhere so you
> and all guys here could see and agree , disagree or propose changes.

That would be great.

-- Pavel

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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Giovanni Corriga
In reply to this post by tblanchard
Il giorno dom, 18/02/2007 alle 11.55 -0800, Todd Blanchard ha scritto:
> I'd like to hear that someone picked up the phone and asked Ralph why  
> he's been silent first.

I concur.

        Giovanni


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RE: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Ron Teitelbaum
Does anyone have Ralph's phone number I'll call him.  Please send it off
list.

Ron Teitelbaum
[hidden email]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:squeak-dev-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Giovanni Corriga
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 4:42 PM
> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> Subject: Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel
>
> Il giorno dom, 18/02/2007 alle 11.55 -0800, Todd Blanchard ha scritto:
> > I'd like to hear that someone picked up the phone and asked Ralph why
> > he's been silent first.
>
> I concur.
>
> Giovanni
>
>



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Re: [V3dot10] Release team problems; Draft Pavel

Edgar J. De Cleene



El 2/19/07 11:43 AM, "Ron Teitelbaum" <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Does anyone have Ralph's phone number I'll call him.  Please send it off
> list.
Ralph has emailed to me this morning.

The reason on not delivering any image is high standars, he wish all green


I resume what SUnit says:

2101 run, 2074 passes, 0 expected failures, 17 failures, 10 errors, 0
unexpected passes for 7071

2146 run, 2077 passes, 2 expected failures, 28 failures, 39 errors, 0
unexpected passes. for 7072 (This is what have Etoys removed).

Edgar




       

       
               
__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas