Re-2: Stef, BotsInc problem...

> I downloaded the ReadyPC image from the SCGSmallWiki site and I am able
> to repeat the problem.
>
> I think it is something wrong with the Bot Workspace. I am able to
> repeat your bug if I click the Do It or Do It All buttons in the Bot
> Workspace.
>
> The good news is you can workaround the problem (by not using the
> buttons). Instead, press Alt+D or (Command+D on Mac) to invoke the do it
> command. This is what I normally do and explains why I didn't notice the
> problem when working through the book.
>
> The Bot Workspace was added for the book. I bet the buttons worked at
> one point and a code change broke them. Went unnoticed because a lot of
> Squeakers already use the right-click context menus or the keyboard
> shortcuts.
>
> I'm running windows. Can someone test on Mac and/or Linux?
>
> I downloaded the ReadyPC image from
>
> Blake wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:19:55 -0800, David Mitchell  
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> That's true enough, but the stack you are debugging shouldn't continue.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, I can't think what might be wrong. I've gone through
> >> Bots  Inc without hitting this one.
> >
> >
> > I haven't had a chance to try this out but if it doesn't
> > work...reinstall?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Beginners mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Beginners mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners

> Hi David,
>
> I was digging a little bit in the code of the MicroWorkspace. I saw
> that Stef changed the behavior of the execution for the content of
> this Workspace by clicking on the button. Every execution is bounded
> with the execution of a block. This block forks. So I didn't see the
> behavior of stepping in this morph but this would explain why the script
> is still running after a halt.
> I do not know enough to see why Stef did it in this way.
> And after all I guess that the programming environment is not the goal
> of the book and BotsInc.

>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [Newbies] Stef, BotsInc problem... (24-Jan-2007 5:19)
> From:    David Mitchell <[hidden email]>
> To:      [hidden email]
>
>> I downloaded the ReadyPC image from the SCGSmallWiki site and I am able
>> to repeat the problem.
>>
>> I think it is something wrong with the Bot Workspace. I am able to
>> repeat your bug if I click the Do It or Do It All buttons in the Bot
>> Workspace.
>>
>> The good news is you can workaround the problem (by not using the
>> buttons). Instead, press Alt+D or (Command+D on Mac) to invoke the do it
>> command. This is what I normally do and explains why I didn't notice the
>> problem when working through the book.
>>
>> The Bot Workspace was added for the book. I bet the buttons worked at
>> one point and a code change broke them. Went unnoticed because a lot of
>> Squeakers already use the right-click context menus or the keyboard
>> shortcuts.
>>
>> I'm running windows. Can someone test on Mac and/or Linux?
>>
>> I downloaded the ReadyPC image from
>>
>> Blake wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:19:55 -0800, David Mitchell  
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's true enough, but the stack you are debugging shouldn't continue.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, I can't think what might be wrong. I've gone through
>>>> Bots  Inc without hitting this one.
>>>
>>> I haven't had a chance to try this out but if it doesn't
>>> work...reinstall?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Beginners mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Beginners mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Beginners mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
>

> The reason for the fork is simple (though the implementation is not):  
> Morphic is single threaded, while Stef wanted to allow multiple  
> independent programs written in straight Smalltalk for the purpose of  
> his book.
>
> And he wanted to present things like loops and make it relatively  
> student-proof.
>
> So the approach that he took was to fork each script and arrange for the  
> UI to be updated from time to time as the individual scripts are running.

> I often wish Squeak worked that way by default.
>
> Too many times I've kicked off a doit that ran for too long, then  
> began to wonder what it was doing, but the UI was frozen.  This is  
> also true of fileins, etc.  I would strongly support an effort to do  
> much less work in the UI thread and a clean feedback mechanism for  
> displaying progress and killing/suspending/debugging runaway items.
>
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Ned Konz wrote:
>
> >So the approach that he took was to fork each script and arrange  
> >for the UI to be updated from time to time as the individual  
> >scripts are running.

> Actually, Ned's ProcessBrowser does a good job of this right now.
> Try playing around with it, you will be surprised at how easy
> it is to pause and restart a background process, inspect it,
> and interrupt it in a debugger.
>
> Note also <http://bugs.impara.de/view.php?id=1578>, which makes
> MVC and Morphic work the same way for background processes that
> update the UI (it also has a small ProcessBrowser fix).
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:54:14PM -0800, Todd Blanchard wrote:
>> I often wish Squeak worked that way by default.
>>
>> Too many times I've kicked off a doit that ran for too long, then
>> began to wonder what it was doing, but the UI was frozen.  This is
>> also true of fileins, etc.  I would strongly support an effort to do
>> much less work in the UI thread and a clean feedback mechanism for
>> displaying progress and killing/suspending/debugging runaway items.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 24, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Ned Konz wrote:
>>
>>> So the approach that he took was to fork each script and arrange
>>> for the UI to be updated from time to time as the individual
>>> scripts are running.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Beginners mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners