Re: [Pharo-project] SqueakSource AND SmalltalkHub down ; )

>> SqueakSource AND SmalltalkHub down
>
> Yes, it looks like SmalltalkHub replaces all features
> of squeaksource and mimicks also the down behavior ;)
>
>> Btw: anyone eager to try out
>> SqueakSource3 ?
>> It is available as and alpha Metacello Config.
>
> Does it work with Pharo 1.2 already? Could you post
> a script for people to load and try?
>

>
> Am 2011-04-20 um 11:30 schrieb Torsten Bergmann:
>
>>> SqueakSource AND SmalltalkHub down
>>
>> Yes, it looks like SmalltalkHub replaces all features
>> of squeaksource and mimicks also the down behavior ;)
>>
>>> Btw: anyone eager to try out
>>> SqueakSource3 ?
>>> It is available as and alpha Metacello Config.
>>
>> Does it work with Pharo 1.2 already? Could you post
>> a script for people to load and try?
>>
>
> Gofer new
>        squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';
>        package: 'ConfigurationOfSqueakSource';
>        load.
> ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfSqueakSource) project version: #development) load.
>
> I've yet to test whether it works in Pharo at all,
> however, I tried to focus on portability.
> I would be happy with any feedback :)
>
> So Long,
>        -Tobias
>

>
> Am 2011-04-20 um 12:32 schrieb Germán Arduino:
>
>> Hi Tobias:
>>
>> Sorry if I'm asking something already explained, but what are the new
>> features of Squeaksource3?
>>
>> I'm interested in try being that I was thinking in provide it with
>> some sort of data replication (only ideas
>> at the moment).
>
>
> I have not implemented replication yet, but it is
> high on my list.
>
> There are no _really_ distinct features
> but in contrast to the oriiginal SqueakSource and
> SqueakSource 2,
> • runs on Seaside3.0 and Magritte 2
> • is highly aimed to run on GemStone
> • includes a basic Issue tracking implemented by Dale Henrichs
>
> I integrated the features that were ‘lurking around’ ,
> eg, in the source.squeak.org instance. So the recently added
> direct access to diffs between versions as either .diff or .cs
> is available in SqueakSource3, too.
>
> My highest aim was to improve extensibility, to allow drop-ins
> to extend squeaksource or to have a minimal one.
> For example, you can load the mare minimum of SqueakSource without
> even the ability to store versions to disk
> or have a full-featured SqueakSource that
> also includes Statistics, IssueTracking and (email) notification.
>
> I hope that helps imagine the SqueakSource3 :)
>
> So Long,
>        -Tobias_______________________________________________

> 2011/4/20 Tobias Pape <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> Am 2011-04-20 um 12:32 schrieb Germán Arduino:
>>
>>> Hi Tobias:
>>>
>>> Sorry if I'm asking something already explained, but what are the new
>>> features of Squeaksource3?
>>>
>>> I'm interested in try being that I was thinking in provide it with
>>> some sort of data replication (only ideas
>>> at the moment).
>>
>>
>> I have not implemented replication yet, but it is
>> high on my list.
>>
>> There are no _really_ distinct features
>> but in contrast to the oriiginal SqueakSource and
>> SqueakSource 2,
>> • runs on Seaside3.0 and Magritte 2
>> • is highly aimed to run on GemStone
>> • includes a basic Issue tracking implemented by Dale Henrichs
>>
>> I integrated the features that were ‘lurking around’ ,
>> eg, in the source.squeak.org instance. So the recently added
>> direct access to diffs between versions as either .diff or .cs
>> is available in SqueakSource3, too.
>>
>> My highest aim was to improve extensibility, to allow drop-ins
>> to extend squeaksource or to have a minimal one.
>> For example, you can load the mare minimum of SqueakSource without
>> even the ability to store versions to disk
>> or have a full-featured SqueakSource that
>> also includes Statistics, IssueTracking and (email) notification.
>>
>> I hope that helps imagine the SqueakSource3 :)
>>
>> So Long,
>>        -Tobias_______________________________________________
>
>
> Thanks for the comments Tobías. I've a good idea now and definitely I
> will give it a try.
>
> About the replication feature, do you have some ideas in mind?
>
> I was thinking in different possibilities:
>
> 1. Develop a feature in the same squeaksource that does this.
> 2. Use some sort of replicated file system (as XtreemFS:
> http://www.xtreemfs.org/). It will require to install it on XtreemOS
> (http://www.xtreemos.eu/)
> 3. Use some nosql horizontally scalable DB (as Riak / Cassandra)
> 4. Use Magma/Gemstone
>
> But, I repeat, just ideas until now. I was thinking in this feature to
> my own use, because I need a reliable store of my source code on my
> company.
>
> Cheers.
> Germán.
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>> Ok question:
>>
>> why don't why have (yet) something to save in something more known, say github?
>>
>>
>>
>
> In my case is for 2 reasons:
>
> 1. I don't know nor use Github.
>
> 2. I largely prefer open source solutions that I can implement on my
> own resources (hardware/datacenter). As far I saw Github is a sort of
> cloud service and free only to some projects....Well I don't trust in
> such sort of solutions.
>
> I prefer a complete solution I can manage from start to end and were I
> don't depend of other companies.
>
> But just an opinion.
>
> Cheers.
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>> Ok question:
>>
>> why don't why have (yet) something to save in something more known, say github?
> 2. I largely prefer open source solutions that I can implement on my
> own resources (hardware/datacenter). As far I saw Github is a sort of
> cloud service and free only to some projects....Well I don't trust in
> such sort of solutions.
>
> I prefer a complete solution I can manage from start to end and were I
> don't depend of other companies.

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>>> Ok question:
>>>
>>> why don't why have (yet) something to save in something more known, say github?
>> 2. I largely prefer open source solutions that I can implement on my
>> own resources (hardware/datacenter). As far I saw Github is a sort of
>> cloud service and free only to some projects....Well I don't trust in
>> such sort of solutions.
>>
>> I prefer a complete solution I can manage from start to end and were I
>> don't depend of other companies.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong but technically,  storing on git hub is just
> like storing in any other git repository, being it github, your
> notebook, or repo inside Mars rover.
>
> I did not thougt this in depth, but if Monticello could store
> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
> Smalltalk a lot.
>
> Davorin Rusevljan
> http://www.cloud208.com/
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> "... if ... could store
> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
> Smalltalk a lot."
>
> Not only visibility because is were the people is but because you can comment code at method level in a social environment.
> That makes all the difference. Lists, emails or commenting issues aren't helping on that.
> Only the guys that one method to method side by side talking about things are having that experience.
> That makes us slower (or more vulnerable to work faster in the wrong things.)
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>>>> Ok question:
>>>>
>>>> why don't why have (yet) something to save in something more known, say github?
>>> 2. I largely prefer open source solutions that I can implement on my
>>> own resources (hardware/datacenter). As far I saw Github is a sort of
>>> cloud service and free only to some projects....Well I don't trust in
>>> such sort of solutions.
>>>
>>> I prefer a complete solution I can manage from start to end and were I
>>> don't depend of other companies.
>>
>> Correct me if I am wrong but technically,  storing on git hub is just
>> like storing in any other git repository, being it github, your
>> notebook, or repo inside Mars rover.
>>
>> I did not thougt this in depth, but if Monticello could store
>> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
>> Smalltalk a lot.
>>
>> Davorin Rusevljan
>> http://www.cloud208.com/
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

> Sorry with my lack of knowledgment, but all this is not SmalltalkHub?
> Or the difference you are pointing is that is not integrated with the
> rest of people/languages as in Github?
>
> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>> "... if ... could store
>> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
>> Smalltalk a lot."
>>
>> Not only visibility because is were the people is but because you can comment code at method level in a social environment.
>> That makes all the difference. Lists, emails or commenting issues aren't helping on that.
>> Only the guys that one method to method side by side talking about things are having that experience.
>> That makes us slower (or more vulnerable to work faster in the wrong things.)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>>>>> Ok question:
>>>>>
>>>>> why don't why have (yet) something to save in something more known, say github?
>>>> 2. I largely prefer open source solutions that I can implement on my
>>>> own resources (hardware/datacenter). As far I saw Github is a sort of
>>>> cloud service and free only to some projects....Well I don't trust in
>>>> such sort of solutions.
>>>>
>>>> I prefer a complete solution I can manage from start to end and were I
>>>> don't depend of other companies.
>>>
>>> Correct me if I am wrong but technically,  storing on git hub is just
>>> like storing in any other git repository, being it github, your
>>> notebook, or repo inside Mars rover.
>>>
>>> I did not thougt this in depth, but if Monticello could store
>>> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
>>> Smalltalk a lot.
>>>
>>> Davorin Rusevljan
>>> http://www.cloud208.com/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> Sort of... clarifying:
>
> 1. not being at all where people is, is actually an issue (from the social POV is a primary issue, from the technical POV is a secondary issue) and
> 2. commenting at method level is an issue (because we are inefficient in "using society" to help code in projects get better (also to convert newcomers easier)).
>
> If the code isn't exposed (visible in the UI) then we are not socializing code.
>
> Which leads to this question:
>
> If we aren't socializing code in a world that is
> 1. getting more social (at near-light-speed) and
> 2. more connected (faster than light)...
>
> then how you can say (and keep your face straight) that you are "inventing the future"?
>
> You are not. Not one the world is clearly demanding (so you'll not have an expanding market, you'll have a shrinking market)
>
> It's only me that see things like this here?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:58 AM, Germán Arduino wrote:
>
>> Sorry with my lack of knowledgment, but all this is not SmalltalkHub?
>> Or the difference you are pointing is that is not integrated with the
>> rest of people/languages as in Github?
>>
>> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>>> "... if ... could store
>>> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
>>> Smalltalk a lot."
>>>
>>> Not only visibility because is were the people is but because you can comment code at method level in a social environment.
>>> That makes all the difference. Lists, emails or commenting issues aren't helping on that.
>>> Only the guys that one method to method side by side talking about things are having that experience.
>>> That makes us slower (or more vulnerable to work faster in the wrong things.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:44 AM, Davorin Rusevljan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Germán Arduino <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>>>>>> Ok question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> why don't why have (yet) something to save in something more known, say github?
>>>>> 2. I largely prefer open source solutions that I can implement on my
>>>>> own resources (hardware/datacenter). As far I saw Github is a sort of
>>>>> cloud service and free only to some projects....Well I don't trust in
>>>>> such sort of solutions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I prefer a complete solution I can manage from start to end and were I
>>>>> don't depend of other companies.
>>>>
>>>> Correct me if I am wrong but technically,  storing on git hub is just
>>>> like storing in any other git repository, being it github, your
>>>> notebook, or repo inside Mars rover.
>>>>
>>>> I did not thougt this in depth, but if Monticello could store
>>>> meaningfully into the git repo, that could help wih visibility of
>>>> Smalltalk a lot.
>>>>
>>>> Davorin Rusevljan
>>>> http://www.cloud208.com/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> seaside mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> seaside mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> seaside mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside
>

> Sort of... clarifying:
>
> 1. not being at all where people is, is actually an issue (from the social POV is a primary issue, from the technical POV is a secondary issue) and
> 2. commenting at method level is an issue (because we are inefficient in "using society" to help code in projects get better (also to convert newcomers easier)).
>
> If the code isn't exposed (visible in the UI) then we are not socializing code.
>
> Which leads to this question:
>
> If we aren't socializing code in a world that is
> 1. getting more social (at near-light-speed) and
> 2. more connected (faster than light)...
>
> then how you can say (and keep your face straight) that you are "inventing the future"?
>
> You are not. Not one the world is clearly demanding (so you'll not have an expanding market, you'll have a shrinking market)
>
> It's only me that see things like this here?

> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Sebastian Sastre
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Sort of... clarifying:
>>
>> 1. not being at all where people is, is actually an issue (from the social POV is a primary issue, from the technical POV is a secondary issue) and
>> 2. commenting at method level is an issue (because we are inefficient in "using society" to help code in projects get better (also to convert newcomers easier)).
>>
>> If the code isn't exposed (visible in the UI) then we are not socializing code.
>>
>> Which leads to this question:
>>
>> If we aren't socializing code in a world that is
>> 1. getting more social (at near-light-speed) and
>> 2. more connected (faster than light)...
>>
>> then how you can say (and keep your face straight) that you are "inventing the future"?
>>
>> You are not. Not one the world is clearly demanding (so you'll not have an expanding market, you'll have a shrinking market)
>>
>> It's only me that see things like this here?
>
> err.. some big (buzz)words for me, but:
>
> 1) agree that non presence on github is big issue
> 2) building something like github, but for smalltalk only could be:
>    a) huge task
>    b) maintenance hog
>    c) may result in functionality less stellar than expected because
> of a + b, and as result worsening 1
>
> Davorin Rusevljan
> http://www.cloud208.com/
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

> 2011/4/20 Sebastian Sastre <[hidden email]>:
>> "Ahother github" is nutty. I don't see any signal of market space for that. At least not without some radical innovation that the market is probably unprepared to swallow at this point.
>>
>> So we play the game there or we simply don't change.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> And do you have some idea about how to integrate SqueakSource,
> Monticello and GitHub ?
> _______________________________________________
> seaside mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside