Re: [Scratch] building the scratch image from the source?

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Re: [Scratch] building the scratch image from the source?

Bert Freudenberg
On 2012-09-28, at 17:00, Matthew Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Pardon me for the squeak newbie question. Is it possible to build the
> scratch image from the source files distributed in a scripted way? Do you do
> this internally when working on the project?

No.

> In Fedora, shipping compiled binaries in the source isn't okay. The
> Scratch.image isn't an arch-specific compiled binary, but it *is* squeak vm
> bytecode, right?

It is a snapshot of the complete run-time memory of Squeak. Squeak is a version of Smalltalk, the original object-oriented system. It is not text-based. Coding in Smalltalk means loading a snapshot from disk, modifying objects in memory, and dumping the whole thing to a file between sessions. The "image" is evolved from version to version. It has some objects in it that were created decades ago. Literally. The last time the image was bootstrapped was in the 70ies.

This may sound odd, but e.g. the GPL states that sources must be distributed in their "Preferred Form For Modification". In Smalltalk's case, that preferred form is the image. All the code is available and ready to be inspected and modified using Smalltalk tools. It's just a bit different from most other popular programming systems.

Btw, we have a special list for Squeak newbie questions:

        http://lists.squeak.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners

(actually, I'm going to cc this reply to that list)

- Bert -


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Re: [Scratch] building the scratch image from the source?

Bert Freudenberg

On 2012-09-28, at 18:27, Matthew Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 06:23:39PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>> This may sound odd, but e.g. the GPL states that sources must be
>> distributed in their "Preferred Form For Modification". In Smalltalk's
>> case, that preferred form is the image. All the code is available and
>> ready to be inspected and modified using Smalltalk tools. It's just a bit
>> different from most other popular programming systems.
>
> No, it sounds reasonable. I can probably get the Fedora packaging committee
> to okay it. (Which is my agenda is asking this question -- I don't
> _actually_ want to make any modifications at this point.)
>
> Is the preferred form _just_ the Scratch.image, or is it the image plus the
> SqueakV2.sources plus the src/Scratch.changes file?


All three. Sources and changes are a database of the source code (referenced from the image using absolute file offsets).

Since Fedora accepted Etoys, I see no problem for Scratch.

- Bert -


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