Hi All, If you are going to run for the Squeak Oversight Board for 2020 now is the time to announce your candidacy. Time is running out! Now is the time to step up and volunteer! Serving on the board is a great way to serve the community! Squeak wants you! All the best, Ron Teitelbaum On Sun, Jan 12, 2020 at 7:27 PM Ron Teitelbaum <[hidden email]> wrote:
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Ron,
Interesting that there is an 'oversight' board but we have to wonder what oversight is actually applied? There are many queries on here (one or two from me) showing that there are issues with finding appropriate and up to date docs covering basic setup and operating issues. As an example, much of that points to the squeakbyexample.org site which seems to have been taken over. As well as that, there are many versions of Squeak on the web, and not much guidance as to which docs and guides work with what versions. There seems an overall cleanup project missing? I also wonder why there are so many expert-level queries on a list supposed to support beginners, perhaps some of that is off-putting to newbies? -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Hi Ron,
The Squeak Documentation problem is something I am trying to solve via SeasideDoc. http://squeaksource.com/@NtNEtETjbH5TQrA0/KZ3_LFF5 I am too busy at the moment to finish it, but if you too are interested in solving the problem, you might want to take a look at it. The basic idea is a StackExchange type web interface that draws sources from existing HelpTopics in the image, and the Swiki and enables "round trip" of the HelpTopics. Meaning, that as SeasideDoc grows, it is used to create additional HelpTopics in-image; creating a virtuous documentation cycle. Is in alpha, the tools to import the Swiki are in place. I am/was currently working on recursing the in-image Help topics and displaying them. Getting that "round trip" functionality is the critical first step. Integrating the Swiki (perhaps round trip functionality there too) is a large task involving tagging and search. StackExchange style comments with upvote/downvote/reputation system is huge too. cheers, tty -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
In reply to this post by mechanic
Mechanic, I'm not sure where you got the squeakbyexample.org url but the website seems to point to here: https://hal.inria.fr/inria-00441576/document from here https://squeak.org/documentation/ Having the documentation be outdated and not working with the current version is a problem for software all around the world. Even more so for an open source community. I completely agree with you that beginner samples need to be maintained so that they stay relevant to new versions of the software. Unfortunately, that is a very difficult thing to do. It would be nice to have a seperate version specific documentation section on the website and a team of people who would move the documentation forward on each new release. What we need to make that happen is the web team to provide that framework for the documentation and a documentation team to volunteer to do the work and write or modify the docs. Tty's method http://www.squeaksource.com/SeasideDoc.html is nice because it is documentation that goes with the program and it's versioned but it would be better to have something that is accessible and filterable by version on the squeak.org website. We just may not have the resources we need to make that happen. By the way have you looked at the http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and https://squeak.org/documentation/ pages? There is a lot of really good documentation out there but it does take some digging and you probably will run into issues related to different versions. Much of it should still be relevant. If you run into issues we are here to help! All the best, Ron Teitelbaum On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:16 AM mechanic <[hidden email]> wrote: Ron, _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
I personally would be interested in helping with documentation of these old resources so they "just work" as
described in the books. Ideally, I would like to use that as a lead into updating these images (and documentation) to work on the latest
versions of Squeak. My understanding is the Squeak by Example book/resources may already been in the process of being updated under Pharo.
However, the Learn Squeak by Programming Robots is not and this particular one is WAY to useful for introducing children. I am currently using
both of these resources to teach Middle/High School students and I am very pleased with how successful it has been. Robert Kuropkat On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:29:37 -0500 Ron Teitelbaum <[hidden email]> wrote: > Mechanic, > > I'm not sure where you got the squeakbyexample.org url >but the website > seems to point to here: >https://hal.inria.fr/inria-00441576/document from > here https://squeak.org/documentation/ > > Having the documentation be outdated and not working >with the current > version is a problem for software all around the world. >Even more so for an > open source community. I completely agree with you that >beginner samples > need to be maintained so that they stay relevant to new >versions of the > software. Unfortunately, that is a very difficult thing >to do. It would > be nice to have a seperate version specific >documentation section on the > website and a team of people who would move the >documentation forward on > each new release. What we need to make that happen is >the web team to > provide that framework for the documentation and a >documentation team to > volunteer to do the work and write or modify the docs. > > Tty's method http://www.squeaksource.com/SeasideDoc.html >is nice because it > is documentation that goes with the program and it's >versioned but it would > be better to have something that is accessible and >filterable by version on > the squeak.org website. > > We just may not have the resources we need to make that >happen. By the way > have you looked at the http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak and > https://squeak.org/documentation/ pages? There is a lot >of really good > documentation out there but it does take some digging >and you probably will > run into issues related to different versions. Much of >it should still be > relevant. If you run into issues we are here to help! > > All the best, > > Ron Teitelbaum > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2020 at 7:16 AM mechanic ><[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Ron, >> >> Interesting that there is an 'oversight' board but we >>have to wonder what >> oversight is actually applied? There are many queries on >>here (one or two >> from me) showing that there are issues with finding >>appropriate and up to >> date docs covering basic setup and operating issues. As >>an example, much of >> that points to the squeakbyexample.org site which seems >>to have been taken >> over. As well as that, there are many versions of Squeak >>on the web, and >> not >> much guidance as to which docs and guides work with what >>versions. There >> seems an overall cleanup project missing? I also wonder >>why there are so >> many expert-level queries on a list supposed to support >>beginners, perhaps >> some of that is off-putting to newbies? >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: >>http://forum.world.st/Squeak-Beginners-f107673.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Beginners mailing list >> [hidden email] >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >> _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list [hidden email] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners |
Thank you John-Reed for filling the last spot. I would have stepped in, but I prefer somebody with more experience did it. => I can still be a newbie for while :) bye Nicola
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